I am afraid...

[phoenixdesi]

I am afraid…

now that Pakistan Army has decided to go offensive against terrorist animals … these animals (Pakistani taliban/AQ) and religious organizations (read hafiz saeed and jamat dawa) will definitely retaliate by doing something crazy in India (like Mumabai incidence) under a presumption … that India will retaliate hard and consequently Pak army will have to focus on its eastern border and stop operation against these animals

this theory has a lot of merit…India has picked a PM which has an aggressive and an anti-Pakistan rhetoric background and will be hostage to that rhetoric to some extent to appease its core constituencies. If anything, surgical air strikes will happen which will turn into a full war.

India showed a lot of restraint after mumbai incidence but i am afraid modi will be under huge pressure to react or otherwise he will lose his credibility immensely

All of this means that Pakistan has a huge responsibility to make sure that non-state actors from its side dont succeed in their plans in india. Zero chance but ISI actually needs to work closely with RAW and pass on any relevant intelligence info. Imagine the positive goodwill if indian public finds out that a major taliban terroist attack in india has been failed due to intelligence info passed on by ISI…

Anyway, one more Mumbai incidence and the whole world will lose its patience against Pakistan…no one will listen to the nonsense that we produce “these are non state actors and pakistan condemns terrorism” and blah blah. It is absolutely our responsibility to control these non state actors. …

and for god sake, stop producing conspiracy theories i.e. india staged mumbai incidence.

Mark my words…these animals will act ferociously in india very soon. Allah reham karay

[queer]

Re: I am afraid...

i dont see any of this happening. and is pakistani army really going after the TTP now? i dont see that happening either. hafiz saeed and co have zero reach into india without support from youknowwho, and they wont do that.

have you ever considered writing scripts for bollywood, PD pai. i'm serious. you haz more masala in a post than an aisle at the desi store.

[Gujranwalay]

Re: I am afraid...

@phoenixdesi

I am afraid.....

now that Pakistan Army has decided to go offensive against terrorist animals ..................... these animals (Pakistani taliban/AQ) and religious organizations (read hafiz saeed and jamat dawa) will definitely retaliate by doing something crazy in India (like Mumabai incidence) under a presumption .... that India will retaliate hard and consequently Pak army will have to focus on its eastern border and stop operation against these animals

this theory has a lot of merit....India has picked a PM which has an aggressive and an anti-Pakistan rhetoric background and will be hostage to that rhetoric to some extent to appease its core constituencies. If anything, surgical air strikes will happen which will turn into a full war.

India showed a lot of restraint after mumbai incidence but i am afraid modi will be under huge pressure to react or otherwise he will lose his credibility immensely

All of this means that Pakistan has a huge responsibility to make sure that non-state actors from its side dont succeed in their plans in india. Zero chance but ISI actually needs to work closely with RAW and pass on any relevant intelligence info. Imagine the positive goodwill if indian public finds out that a major taliban terroist attack in india has been failed due to intelligence info passed on by ISI....

Anyway, one more Mumbai incidence and the whole world will lose its patience against Pakistan....no one will listen to the nonsense that we produce "these are non state actors and pakistan condemns terrorism" and blah blah. It is absolutely our responsibility to control these non state actors. ...

and for god sake, stop producing conspiracy theories i.e. india staged mumbai incidence.

Mark my words....these animals will act ferociously in india very soon. Allah reham karay

It's not Pakistan's fault if there are extremists in the world. The majority of Pakistanis are peaceful and friendly and do not want to engage in fights.

Please stop day-dreaming about "whole world losing its patience". You and all your power in the world cannot do anything against Pakistan.
Pakistan is a nuclear state now. Do you seriously think Pakistanis, and their military will tolerate any attack on its soil. If India wants to
have adventures, it should be ready to face the consequences. Both countries will be done with if it goes that far.

Didn't the media show some hindu dude in hospital and police confessing it was a local act? You all just dream about teaching Pak a lesson.
It's easy to sit in Phoenix and talk like some Indian warrior. I suggest you to check what you wrote above. If you're a Muslim your faith does not
even allow you to think of teaching innocent Muslims in another country a lesson through your tactic of "whole world loses its patience on Pakistan".

It seems you still don't have the guts to do it alone, you need the whole world. That says a lot about the so-called imagination of your country
thinking of itself as a big power. Secondly, do you seriously think CHINA, or even Russia, will allow it ?

Pakistanis may appear divided on several points and ideas and all. They may have our flaws and their corrupt politicians, secretarian violence, etc.
But against any foreign aggression, I can say with confidence that Pakistanis stand 100% behind their military on any day. It's time you
forget about your aggression plans and such daydreams. It ain't happening. The world has seen enough atrocities.

Now you better get up and go to work for $x/hr and keep these "dreams" to yourself.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: I am afraid...

@queer

hafiz saeed and co have zero reach into india without support from youknowwho, and they wont do that.

so you are saying that ISI and Pak Army were behind mumbai incidence....deep sigh!!!

see this is the problem....whole india, its masses, establishment, army, bureaucracy, politicians everyone believes that ISI staged mumbai incidence and that is one of the core problems. India has a psychological phobia of ISI. They are so scared of ISI that it will blame ISI for everything.

Janab, we Pakistanis legitimately believe that ISI and Pak Army were not behind mumbai incidence and it was organized and conducted by non state actors (although it is our responsibility to control them)

and to think that these animals are not well equipped and organized and have zero reach in inda is childish .... these animals have conducted some complex operations against pak army and its HQ many times successfully in last 5 years. You dont have to conduct a complex operation like mumabi every-time. We all know how pathetic indian border security system is (just like pakistan) and blasting severe bomb blasts in big indian cities is not complicated.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: I am afraid...

@Gujranwalay

Didn't the media show some hindu dude in hospital and police confessing it was a local act? You all just dream about teaching Pak a lesson. It's easy to sit in Phoenix and talk like some Indian warrior. I suggest you to check what you wrote above. If you're a Muslim your faith does not even allow you to think of teaching innocent Muslims in another country a lesson through your tactic of "whole world loses its patience on Pakistan".

oh yes yes...sorry, i forgot that. Kasab was an indian citizen. No idea why the hell Pakistani govt confessed that kasab was a Pakistani citizen. Shameless Pak govt!

[queer]

Re: I am afraid...

@phoenixdesi

so you are saying that ISI and Pak Army were behind mumbai incidence....deep sigh!!!

see this is the problem....whole india, its masses, establishment, army, bureaucracy, politicians everyone believes that ISI staged mumbai incidence and that is one of the core problems. India has a psychological phobia of ISI. They are so scared of ISI that it will blame ISI for everything.

Janab, we Pakistanis legitimately believe that ISI and Pak Army were not behind mumbai incidence and it was organized and conducted by non state actors (although it is our responsibility to control them)

and to think that these animals are not well equipped and organized and have zero reach in inda is childish .... these animals have conducted some complex operations against pak army and its HQ many times successfully in last 5 years. You dont have to conduct a complex operation like mumabi every-time. We all know how pathetic indian border security system is (just like pakistan) and blasting severe bomb blasts in big indian cities is not complicated.

i'm not saying the whole of ISI and PA were complicit in it. but there are "non-state actors" who seem to have a lot of ability - putting up bin laden pai in homes around the country. these are "non state actors" in the sense that they have deniability of official links, but are run by people like hamid gul who on paper look like pariahs but have significant influence in the establishment to make things happen.

and as for severe bomb blasts in indian cities - it is not easy. india doesnt have a "tribal areas" where guns and ammo is available as easily as rice and sabzi. can't smuggle in bombs so easily unless it is done via nepal etc. again, too complicated for genuine non-state actors. gun rampages are the best bet for terrorists in india. they can manage complex operations against PA and similar agencies, because in pakistan every institution is steeped with sympathizers for these sorts. this is the biggest problem.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: I am afraid...

@queer

i'm not saying the whole of ISI and PA were complicit in it. but there are "non-state actors" who seem to have a lot of ability - putting up bin laden pai in homes around the country. these are "non state actors" in the sense that they have deniability of official links, but are run by people like hamid gul who on paper look like pariahs but have significant influence in the establishment to make things happen.

and as for severe bomb blasts in indian cities - it is not easy. india doesnt have a "tribal areas" where guns and ammo is available as easily as rice and sabzi. can't smuggle in bombs so easily unless it is done via nepal etc. again, too complicated for genuine non-state actors. gun rampages are the best bet for terrorists in india. they can manage complex operations against PA and similar agencies, because in pakistan every institution is steeped with sympathizers for these sorts. this is the biggest problem.

fair point on taliban sympathizers that have infiltrated into our institutions ....

but this time you are coming up with a "bollywood plot" when you suggested that likes of hamid gul have so much power that they can run an ISI within ISI. It is just not operationally possible. Nothing can be done or managed easily within ISI without ISI head and chief of army staff approval. ISI and PA are not some third class organizations that can be maneuvered so easily. so either ISI fully supported the mumbai incidence operationally or it didn't.

Strategically I am not disagreeing that ISI and Pakistan Army have had interest in keeping tension with India (and vice versa) but given the threat that taliban pose for pakistan, PAk Army has first time admitted and that too publicly that taliban terrorists are bigger threat for Pak than india. This is a huge strategic shift which has not been appreciated and endorsed by indian army and bureaucracy adequately.

and all i am saying that this deep mistrust is the foundation on which rough elements flourish on both sides (yes we have more of those cancerous elements).