They all chant mantra of how important it is for man to abide by religion and how evil and un-natural athiesm is. They will strive to have the people turn to religion where they are in majority but when they are in minority they’ll promote a secular set up.
And no one is exception to it. The priests in their own countires want people to come to church but don’t like religious muslims. Pakistani clerics will like to have an Islamic system in Pakistan but will vehemently oppose hindu parties like BJP in India. Similarly shias support the religious government of Iran but want seculars in rest of muslim countries.
erm i think thats mcommon sense really, most would prefer to be under the rule of thier own faith and totally opposed to being subjected to an alien one. Noone wants to be subjected to the law of other religons hence better to opt for secularism where theres more chance of equality, rather than a diff religion...no?
many sunni parties in pakistan strongly opposed iranian revolution although 90% things they do are the same as sunnis religious parties, similarly shias in pakistan always back secular parties like PPP and stay away from calling for a islamic revolution in pakistan as that wud be invariably a sunni version of islam
if religious shias and sunnis combine their strenght then its best for both of them
many sunni parties in pakistan strongly opposed iranian revolution although 90% things they do are the same as sunnis religious parties, similarly shias in pakistan always back secular parties like PPP and stay away from calling for a islamic revolution in pakistan as that wud be invariably a sunni version of islam
if religious shias and sunnis combine their strenght then its best for both of them
Unification is difficult, and that is why the most powerful party in Lebanon, Hezbollah, a religious Shia party with Khomeinist influences, has repeatedly stated that they will not instill Islamic law in Lebanon.
They know that Islamic law will not work in such a religiously diverse country. The same should be done for Pakistan, because we also have more than just Sunnis and Shias, we have Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus among other groups.
^ they are a small minority , pakistan has 97 % muslims 12er shias ARE muslims ] i dont think we can have a better situation
True, but I think you are talking about an *ideal *situation in Pakistan, where Sunnis and Shias actually get along and will agree on a system of Islamic laws acceptable to both sects.
Zia ul Haq tried to impose Zakat in Pakistan, and I'm sure you remember what happened. Shias refused to pay and some Sunnis actually converted to Shi'ism so they wouldn't have to pay either. In Iraq, something similar is happening with Sunni women becoming Shia, so they can get a greater share of inheritance due to their husbands dying because of the US occupation.
I also see both sects becoming more extreme and more polarized in their own groups. That also makes it difficult.
p.s. LOL, I do realized that 12er Shias are Muslims. My family has both Sunni and Shia.
^ problem is zia ul haq wanted selective islamic laws to be imposed not all,remember he is the same guy who killed palestinaians for king hussain of jordan so this "mard-e-momin" was actually a munafiq
while the 12ers many of whom dont give zakat at all started making a issue about zakat.political leaders 12ers will do anything to prevent islamic laws to be part of constitution.
within fiqahs there are more similarities than differences and if our intentions are clear than there are less obstacles than we think.And the minority has to accept the rule of majority within reasonable limits.
The "moderate" muslims want to highlite the differences so the result is that no one wins and our laws remain secular.
^ problem is zia ul haq wanted selective islamic laws to be imposed not all,remember he is the same guy who killed palestinaians for king hussain of jordan so this "mard-e-momin" was actually a munafiq
That's true.
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while the 12ers many of whom dont give zakat at all started making a issue about zakat.
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That's true as well.
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political leaders 12ers will do anything to prevent islamic laws to be part of constitution
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What do you think motivates Shia political leaders to do that? And to add to that, Qalabani, who is the Vice President of the Higher Shiite Council of Lebanon, said recently that the Lebanese Shias love Iran, but do not want Waliyat Faqih.
Does Khums come into play with all of this?
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And the minority has to accept the rule of majority within reasonable limits.
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That's also a problem. Do you not think that maybe the minority Shias have a (justifiable) fear that the majority Sunnis will gain too much power and begin to oppress them? What do you think Sunnis can do to alleviate this fear?
^ there is not much hope i agree as nasibis in the guise of ahle sunnah have infiltrated the ranks of sunnis and under the pretence of puritin islam are misguiding their young generation.
similarly 12ers of today have a clerical establishment reminescient of pre-reformation papacy they have lot of influence to lose amongst shia communities once shias and sunnis get along well under a islamic state
Secularism I believe means freedom to anyone to do whatever they want to do in the name of religion. In other words...being neutral to religious affairs.
France (so called a secular country trying to secure secularism) taking freedom of all religious people from wearing religious clothings or items is no different than discrimination in any country based on religion.
Laws are governed by the majority...I think.
A larger minority in a country must be given flexibility in the law but respect for any minority religion has to be observed.
Sheas in Pakistan or muslims in India are considered larger minority.
Hypocracy means saying something but doing the opposite.
OR
Asking/wishing/struggling for something good for self but bad things for others.
Religious people don't do that.
They really believe they are doing something good for everyone and those who do not do what they think is right is misguided or doomed for failure.
^ i disagree with ur analogy of 12ers and indian muslims
12ers are muslims and differences with them is interpretation of islam , so they are not dhimmi like minority
while ahmadis christians etc are dhimmis
if u want to be neutral to religious affairs then drop the "islamic republic " from official name of pakistan
Laws of a country are governed by majority everywhere in this world...and religion has a big effect on the laws of land......even france has reverse effect of religion on its laws...
(Hope you got my point when I said....reverse effect!)
Now..my comparison was purely based on minority and majority of people of different schools of thought and nothing wrong with giving relaxation to bigger majority in one country.
erm i think thats mcommon sense really, most would prefer to be under the rule of thier own faith and totally opposed to being subjected to an alien one. Noone wants to be subjected to the law of other religons hence better to opt for secularism where theres more chance of equality, rather than a diff religion...no?
Well, as the religious and clergy prefer secularists over religious when they are in minority it has the following implications in my opinion:
*Beleif in God does not make you a better person, rather it may make you worse, even your fellow beleivers don't trust you.
*No two religions worship the same God.
And what i read somwhere of an athiest , "God save me from those who beleive in you", seems true.
There seem to be two main kinds of religious people in this regard.
1- Absolutely belives that his religion is the only religion and struggles and hopes for his religion to prevail over the country.
2- Still believes his religion being the best but thinks its better to have some religious environment than none.
Secular idea is rejected by ANY religious person. Its hard to concieve that a religious person would want someone not to believe in God's existence at all.
Its the common man who may feel somewhat secured in so called secular place. If we look into religious societies/places people still have the ability to perform essential and important elements of their religion..not much different from secular places.
Exceptions are there and examples of extremists and illiterates are fortunately few.
People are in conflict more due to other reasons..economy, land, power, resources etc. but not religion when compared.