Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

Lifestyle Relationships
1

I think this topic deserves a separate thread.

The thread, above posts were taken out, is this one:

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/life-and-relationships/627503-mil-slaps-husband.html

I am not sure on the validity of story posted in that thread since OP did not come out with details which that thread required and many posters gave opinions based on half baked story.

With this background and so many threads revolving these kind of issues I am taking liberty to say my views on these kind of situations.

1- Men also have the responsibility to watch for and keeping harmony in MIL and DIL(their wives) relationship. Not just the two said parties.

2- It is true that Men should never raise their voice to their mothers. Ever.

3- There should never be a comparison made between MIL’s and respective spouses.

4- Both have their positions and values. Independent of each other. They are just like apples and oranges.

5- Actually the problem occurs when it is considered that they can be compared and sort of competition is created in the household between Mil and DIL.

6- Men are then unnecessarily dragged in to this turf war.

7- And finding themselves in this turf war, many men just lose their temper and things get out of hand.

8- There is no comparison even for the level of respect which can be made.

9- A high level of respect for both MIL and DIL(wife) is to be maintained independent of other person. I mean no relationship even to the level of respect should be drawn or expected. Two different graphs and units of X and Y axes.

10- **Unfortunately women are the worst enemies of each other. I have said this many times.

11- Somehow they cannot live independently of each others and a lot of women keep comparing themselves to other women regardless if other women are friends, co-workers, celebrities, MIL’s, SIL’s or even random strangers.**

12- Women even try to mimic (more so than men) any woman who they feel has something better, be it looks, clothes, house, car, jewelry, make up or even physical characteristics like the chest size. :smack:

13- Bottom line is that a lot of women (not all) have this interdependency trait.

14- If only women could leave each other alone and let other have her own respect and position.

15- **This idea that either me or her is so childish.
**
16- Wife can never take place of MIL and MIL can never take place of wife.

17- A mother has longer relation with her child and spouse (husband or wife) should never try come in between mother and her child.

18- Similarly, Mother should never try to come between spouses.

19- Both husbands and wives out of respect of elderly and respected mothers, should never disrespect mothers in support of their spouses. Ever!

20- The stupid acts committed by parties involved in these kind of relations is not uncommon all around the world. East/west/south/North. " Educated" or Uneducated.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

You still have not answered my last question. What do you do as the man when a conflict arises?

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

Men should politely tell the rude or "ordering party" that being rude or ordering around is unacceptable.

4

Men should never raise their voice to their mother? I disagree. Under normal circumstances no, but what if there is a continuing pattern of mental or worse physical abuse of a guys wife or kids by his mother? Gentle but firm is fine initially but strong, forceful, assertive and directive which could be in a loud voice should not be discounted. The girlie-men in lame places where the likelihood of bahoos to tend to get burnt while cooking is a rare but example of a situation where I believe a guy should even use physical force against his mother to remove her from premise.

Shouting and yelling towards anyone is not a great idea but a matter if fact, forceful, assertive tone without taking nonsense responses as answer are perfectly fine. Men should grow up, grow some balls and be men and not mommys baby boys. Rush tau aside, talk like you would talk to any other adult and in a manner tailored to whether they are responding in a logical way or not.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

My first point above clearly stated that men should be responsible for keeping the harmony at their homes.

Time to grow balls is not when situation is out of control. It is before marriage or immediately after marriage when men should send the signals to both their mothers and wives that they have limits to stay within their territories and these territories should not be crossed to infringe upon each others rights.

Manliness of men is not in front of their mothers (or fathers), it is rather in front of any other adult who's conduct is bad enough to warrant strong reaction.
**
What kind of man is a man, who has to show his manliness to his own mother?**

It really does not make a grown up man mommy's boy if he is yelled at (or even get a slap) from his mother. Actually a strong man will show great patience and would still respect his mother. The correct response is to laugh at it and keep the atmosphere pleasant. It really does not take his manliness away. After-all he got his 'manliness' from being raised as a strong man by her.

The benefit of it is that if his wife observes it, she will know that it is really not her position to be in the middle of mother and son.

Finally, mother is not just another adult. She has seen his balls even when they were about the size of a pea! :D

6

You can have your murghay ki aik tang and enjoy it. My point is that clearly "never" raising your voice is not an option, there can be dynamics at work where you gotta do what you have to do to the point if you need to physically stop her you do that. One simple situation I know of is of a lady whose idea of discipline was different than her son and DIL, after asking her multiple times to not hit his preschool kids like some piñata one time he got in the way, told her to stop, held her hand and walked her out of the room.

I know certain people would cal it bad, but polite, firm, private conversations were not doing it. Our elders are human beings with all faults and strengths that can come with it. To address situations you need to be able to use all sane options.

I know of other situations too. Sorry to say just because someone is a mother does not mean she is a stable rational person and could change her ways through reason alone. Tough love can go both ways.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

Agree 100%! I find it amusing that "elders" and parents are being painted in this golden, glowing light. Newsflash - there are nasty older people out there too. And sorry, but a grown woman slapping her adult son over something as trivial as a dinner menu is completely unreasonable.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

Op of the other thread MIL slaps husband here

The story which I related in that thread was not an isolated issue.
The only unusual aspect was the slap. My MIL has yelled at us before.

My husband has argued and yelled at her before. She will not listen to me or my husband.
I have never talked back to her. I respected her because she is my husband's mother.

My husband told me that we should move out if there were problems.
I told him no, because she is his mother.

But enough of my personal issues. To respond to the Op of this thread:
My husband said to me A man cannot be all things to all women.
That no-one (especially him) can treat all relationships equally.
That he was a husband FIRST and a son SECOND.
That he was willing to forsake everyone for me. Of course, I never asked him to.

Too many men will not choose. A wife should come before others.
There is no comparison between a wife and a mother. On that I agree.
And my husband to me comes before my mother.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil’s etc. The Married family dynamics:

On an interesting note did Allah not create a man and woman before any other relationship in the world :hmmm:

Not arguing just stating this since it was something interesting someone’s mother said once.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil’s etc. The Married family dynamics:

Diwana, point 5, 10 and 15, simply marvelous!! :k:

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil’s etc. The Married family dynamics:

Murghay Ki Taang. :yummy:

But Bakray Ki Taang yummier. :smiley:

Your example is not something I disagree. He did the right thing.

According to your account, he did not yell at her and did not verbally or physically abused/degraded her. Very admirable.

Besides, there were minors involved in this matter and he was right.

To your second bold part: I will have answer lumped summed together in later posts because I do not want to repeat so many times and sound like a broken record.

**For your third bold part: **

The question is not about if mother is rational or irrational.

It is about what should be considered acceptable response.

I will post further below when I get the chance.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

Agar bivi ko izzat nahin de saktay to shaadi mat karein...simple :)

I really need to see how its acceptable to be rude with your wife for your mother.

Diwana - your relationship with your mother is YOUR responsibility...not your wife's to maintain.

She isn't answerable nor responsible nor the casualty of your relationship with her.

What good is having a son at all in desi society if he cannot be a man? Isn't that why men are prized by their parents? Because the general impression is that men will take care of their parents in their old age, isn't it?

So putting your mother and wife on opposite sides of you and then CHOOSING one means you're a good son? :)

Why put them there in the first place? Is it very difficult to keep them apart?

How are mard and aurat each other's libaas if one is hell bent on putting the other in its place?

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil’s etc. The Married family dynamics:

I am sorry but making big deal about Eid day dinner and as trivial as it can be was made a huge deal by both Dil and Husband as evident from husband yelling at his mother. :no:

“Nasty” older people is not the focus of this discussion.

If I get the chance, I will post further on it.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

^could be that the dinner just became an excuse for both son and mother to lash out whatever was boiling inside.
Anyways, in an ideal world no one yells at anyone, but since no one is perfect, people are bound to lose their temper once in a while no matter how much they want to control it.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

To your red parts first: Sorry. No, I personally do not agree to those.

A spouse does not have first and not even second position compared to MIL from both sides.

You said there is no comparison between wife and mother, so why bring before and after?

You mentioned the situation was not an isolated issue.

Both mother and her son have yelled at each other.

A slap was not such an unexpected gesture. She as a mother felt he was out of line and yelling at him has not worked before,
so she took a physical approach. Not good.

But the physical approach was not something so harmful. Come on, a grown up man should be able to withstand a slap from a woman who happens to be his mother.

Not really a huge deal. He is not made of glass or wax.

**Eid dinner or day is a special day. It is about sacrifice and giving up something precious.

**
LAST MINUTE CHANGE?

Apologize for being blunt: There was no big deal of making one dish instead of other and even though it was perceived as an order from his mother.

Her wish should have been taken seriously and with respect.

Before Eid dinner and night before, there is plenty of time to make any dish and certainly should not be advertized as "last minute change".

It is not that it was 6-8 PM at Eid night and guests were ringing the bell for dinner and his mother "ordered" to change the menu.

Even if that was he case, there was no need for husband to yell at her.

Question: How old is his mother? At least tell roughly around what age?

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil’s etc. The Married family dynamics:

And both the man and woman were mother and father…of all mankind.

Not Son or DIL.

Hope you got the message. :hehe:

Where did I say it is acceptable to be rude to wife for mother?

Where did I say that? ( this issue can be discussed however)

Yes, men should take care of their parents in their old age. A noble act.

Did I say anything contrary to this earlier?

No. It is very easy to keep them apart. It’s just that both keep coming back to each other and create a competitive environment to which men are dragged in to.

My first post was an effort to negate this behavior.

No spouse should ever put each other in to her or his place. Agreed. Where did I say anything to contrary?

Reha! I get your points, but you are ‘‘preaching to the choir’’ for the most part. :slight_smile:

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

I am in my late 20s.
My husband is in his early 30s.
My MIL is nearly 60.

The issue regarding the slap isn't about how much it hurt or not.
It is about how unacceptable it is.

My husband argues with my MIL about issues that relate to me.
When she criticises, puts me down, orders me around or does hurtful things.
He doesn't do or say anything when the issue is about him.
He says that he respects and loves his mother.

I don't talk back to my MIL. I do whatever she says.
My husband says that respecting and loving his mother doesn't mean allowing her to hurt me.
He says he cannot sit there and watch me insulted and hurt by my MIL.

No spouse should allow their family to insult their partner.
For us, each other comes first. For other people it is different.
My husband swill do a lot for his mother but not at my expense.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil’s etc. The Married family dynamics:

But they were husband and wife first :). See what I mean.

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

Excellent response. Loved it. Bravo! :)

You moved the discussion towards another angle.

No. They were not appointed as husband and wife. *No such thing even close to, them being appointed as husband and wife is valid or proven.
*
**They were given the job of being mother and father to procreate human race. OR they assumed this role out of God's will.

Actually Shaitan made them like each other and they were then sent to earth since they disobeyed.
**
Moreover:

As much as it would bring some sort of enlightenment to those who may not have thought about it, that even siblings in initial stage were allowed to have intimate relation and become father(s) and mother(s) so the human race could flourish.

*There was no concept of being husband and wife at that stage. *

*Being father and being mother to continue human race is what has been the reason why you and I exist in this world.
*

Later this concept was changed when it was not needed and this is my theory that when genetic code became too close to each of 'distant cousins' to cause potential harm, the new orders came, to abolish siblings of same parents become 'pro-creators".

Idea was not of husband and wife by itself, the idea was to flourish human race by making them mother and father.

Adam and Eve (Amma Hawwa) are not remembered as husband and wives since there was no concept of being married.

They are still remembered as father and mother.

(Anything above is not applicable to evolution theorists)

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Re: Husbands, Wives, Mil(s), Dil's etc. The Married family dynamics:

Even though in back of my mind I am skeptical that your post being very well thought out and planned to get the expected response, but I will play along.

You have not made specific comments on what I said in your original thread and the post I made in response to your post here.

All you have done so far is to say what you want to say, to make people go with the idea that MIL should be outcast and your role is submissive and your husband should earn brownie points to support you at any level and any cost since husband and wife (as some societies believe) should be able to live isolated once married to each other and anyone who interferes with their affairs is evil.

OK. With that even being negated,

Your MIL has been experiencing arguments and yelling from your husband for a while as your previous post says.

She was then yelled at according to you on Eid day menu by your husband.

She slapped him. An over-reaction. But this slap did not come out of blue or vacuum.

He has been disrespecting her periodically and has not been acting as rational person being a son in the past.

Being the mother, she must have felt it was time to show him by other means he was out of line consistently.

He deserved to be slapped by her judgment for repeatedly being disrespectful.

** Men should not yell at their mothers on a matter as trivial as picking on the menu for Eid dinner. I am sorry. That is what I think and believe.

I already gave you some points to think about why it was not such a big deal for you and your husband to **make a drama out of his mother telling you to make something other than what was planned. Please read above if you missed it.