Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

[vineshvk]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

@PaKpatriot1

Still, India is a secular country that nurtures the belief that freedom of relgion is essential...

For Christians, their bible tells them to spread the word of god, it part of their beliefs.. If you forbid them to prech their relgion, it impinging on their freedom of relgion.

So long as they do it politely and without openly being derogatory to other religions...

Still, my question is, why dont Hindus in India organize and beat the Christian Missionaries to the punch... Do what the Christians are doing and preach to those who are most likely to be converted, the virtues of the Hindu faith?

There are many western secular countries in the world where religious freedom are restricted depeding on their social situation. To eliminate the problems like these happening India need to do something affirmative, be it curteiling some religious freedom. There are many aspect of christianity and Islam other than aggressive preaching that could be practiced in India without anybody objecting. Is that a costly price to pay.

[system]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

There are many western secular countries in the world where religious freedom are restricted depeding on their social situation. To eliminate the problems like these happening India need to do something affirmative, be it curteiling some religious freedom. There are many aspect of christianity and Islam other than aggressive preaching that could be practiced in India without anybody objecting. Is that a costly price to pay.

Maybe, maybe not.. Depends on the Chrisitians I suppose and how they view it...

Still, I find that a ideal would be a society in which all are free to preach their relgion...

And shouldnt Hindus look after each other? Dont you think its important for you to examine why these people are such easy prey, and what it is about them and their relgion that makes the so suceptible to conversion? I mean, there are obviously unresolved issues which would be ignored if you simply banned conversion....

Banning Christian or Muslim missionaries doesnt resolve the underlying causes behind so many conversions...
Isnt it your responsibility as a Hindu to look after these people, both in terms of their daily living and their spiritual needs? Ultimately its not even about the Chrisitians, its about the unresolved issues of the people who are being converted...

[indopak]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

well would an illiterate,poor Hindu or Muslim know that getting holy water poured over their heads means that they have unknowingly embraced Christianity.

I'm sure in the past there have been a few numbers obsessed missionaries that might resort to certain measures. But they see it as saving souls that might have been doomed in their mind.

Those kinds of people are a bit terrifying for me.

I hope you see that willingly converting to another religion is very different than the situation I just described.

[system]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

@indopak

well would an illiterate,poor Hindu or Muslim know that getting holy water poured over their heads means that they have unknowingly embraced Christianity.

I'm sure in the past there have been a few numbers obsessed missionaries that might resort to certain measures. But they see it as saving souls that might have been doomed in their mind.

Those kinds of people are a bit terrifying for me.

I hope you see that willingly converting to another religion is very different than the situation I just described.

Haan, but if some Christian dude came up to me and pored some water over my head, I still wouldnt consider myself a Christian...
The intention is just as important or more important then the act.

I know missionaries arent exactly the type of people we like to associate with, but they have to be dealt with...

I just think that instead of getting upset, Hindus should make an effort to do their own missionary work... I mean, to convert means you have to have a huge spiritual hole inside you... Hindu missionaries should trump the efforts of Christian Missionaries by filling that spiritual space that would otherwise make for a breeding ground for mass conversions.

I think neglect of these poor people, both in terms of spirituality and in more tangible ways is what creates the problem... Missionaries only fill the gap for society has failed.

[StirCrasy]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

Banning Christian or Muslim missionaries doesnt resolve the underlying causes behind so many conversions...

That is exactly what needs to happen. for too long we have allowed these white cassocked so called missionaries and the imam bhukari's of the world chip away at our people with the bribe money they get from abroad. In the name of doing god's work they try to mislead and convert. I have come across many many kind hearted Christian reverends but where such kindness is coupled with a quest to baptise, it is no longer kindness but zealotry. We in India have put up with such rascals too long

Isnt it your responsibility as a Hindu to look after these people, both in terms of their daily living and their spiritual needs? Ultimately its not even about the Chrisitians, its about the unresolved issues of the people who are being converted...

Oh yeah? let me tell you about unresolved issues of Christians and Muslims. Do you have any idea how much the great Christian church has paid out to squelch sodomy and child abuse cases against them? hm? Some resolution. I wouldn't talk about muslim clergy other than asking you to just look at some of the speeches they give to rile up youth, in any country...not just India.

Or your want a 'social responsibility' example? Sure. How responsible is it Mitt Romeny and Huckabee are today differentoiated mainly by 'you christian not' ? or more than half of all muslim killings being directly attributable to sectarian differences?

If Hindus have castes, muslims have sects and christians have denominations. And all of them discriminate. So let's stop this holier than though finger pointing to justify the raw uncivilized and greedy act of conversion.

[system]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

That is exactly what needs to happen. for too long we have allowed these white cassocked so called missionaries and the imam bhukari's of the world chip away at our people with the bribe money they get from abroad. In the name of doing god's work they try to mislead and convert. I have come across many many kind hearted Christian reverends but where such kindness is coupled with a quest to baptise, it is no longer kindness but zealotry. We in India have put up with such rascals too long

Oh yeah? let me tell you about unresolved issues of Christians and Muslims. Do you have any idea how much the great Christian church has paid out to squelch sodomy and child abuse cases against them? hm? Some resolution. I wouldn't talk about muslim clergy other than asking you to just look at some of the speeches they give to rile up youth, in any country...not just India.

Or your want a 'social responsibility' example? Sure. How responsible is it Mitt Romeny and Huckabee are today differentoiated mainly by 'you christian not' ? or more than half of all muslim killings being directly attributable to sectarian differences?

If Hindus have castes, muslims have sects and christians have denominations. And all of them discriminate. So let's stop this holier than though finger pointing to justify the raw uncivilized and greedy act of conversion.

You sound like your getting upset... Im not attacking you...
You should stick to the point, not start pointing finger. Two wrongs dont make a right...

My point was that one, if India is a secular country, then issues of Conversion shouldnt even make the news...
Second, the Hindu people that do convert, convert because there is something missing for them..
The Missionaries who come in, tend to fill this gap, or a are percieved by the people to fill that gap..

The question is, why instead of gettin upset the way you have, or burning down churches, or attacking Muslims, you embrace the fact that you are secular... And understand the fact that you instead of blaming Chirsitian Missionaries, you look to yourselves and try to figure why your own people are so easily converted...
Try and fill the gap in the lives of those people yourselves, through spiritual counceling, and community uplift...
Conversion might be bad, but its the right of anyone living in a secular couontry to choose their relgion... And its the right of anyone living in secular country to preach their relgion... And if you dont like it, then oppose it, but do it through rational means.. Understanding the ground realites...
You for some reason ignore the fact that the people being converted, are actually not satisfied with something... Instead of attacking Chrisitans, why dont you try and understand what that dissatisfation stems from and deal with it...

It seems, if you can organize yourself in violent oppostion to Missionaries, then you can organize yourselves into peacefu opposition, and findl ways to counter the message of the Missionaries with your own, and help the people yourselves...

Most of the Indians on the forum remain silent on this issue, and thats there right... But why blame Missionaries for filling the gaps that you people arent willing to fill yourselves? If you cant or arent willing to help your own people, then why are you attacking people who are?

[StirCrasy]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

Secularism does not mean anti-Hindu. Yet that is exactly what has been going on. Christian and Muslim organizations, funded by foreign bodies have been bribing people into these things. And the government has been with their pandering have done their part too.

So an increasing part of Hindus are getting angrier. Now, if there was a Mahathma Gandhi around to channel their force into peaceful means sure....but I doubt that.

[vineshvk]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

Maybe, maybe not.. Depends on the Chrisitians I suppose and how they view it...

Still, I find that a ideal would be a society in which all are free to preach their relgion...

And shouldnt Hindus look after each other? Dont you think its important for you to examine why these people are such easy prey, and what it is about them and their relgion that makes the so suceptible to conversion? I mean, there are obviously unresolved issues which would be ignored if you simply banned conversion....

Banning Christian or Muslim missionaries doesnt resolve the underlying causes behind so many conversions... Isnt it your responsibility as a Hindu to look after these people, both in terms of their daily living and their spiritual needs? Ultimately its not even about the Chrisitians, its about the unresolved issues of the people who are being converted...

As u have already said, in Hinduism active conversion or preaching is non existent. Also the missionary culture is very new to Hinduism. Here the swami who was assaulted I think was kind of a missionary Hinduism which is sprouting up here and there to counter the church missionaries. These groups are actively supported by VHP.
I am not against conversion, if people think they get a better life convert, I cant blame them. But I am against bad blood that arise out of conversion. Here the Christians didn't like the reconversion of tribals. may be the swami said something bad about Christianity, who knows what provoked them to attack the swami.

[system]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

Secularism does not mean anti-Hindu. Yet that is exactly what has been going on. Christian and Muslim organizations, funded by foreign bodies have been bribing people into these things. And the government has been with their pandering have done their part too.

So an increasing part of Hindus are getting angrier. Now, if there was a Mahathma Gandhi around to channel their force into peaceful means sure....but I doubt that.

Well, Im not one to support conversions.. I have never heard of Muslim missionaries actively preaching in India... Atleast nothing to compare to Christians.

I can understand why Hindus would be upset, but I just think their resentment is misplaced.

Hindus need to channel their energy into supporting the poorer segments, particularly those who are easily converted.. The govt should actively support such initiatives...

Not having a Gandhi doesnt absolve on of ones own responsibilty towards the deprived members of society.

[StirCrasy]

Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists

^ You keep refusing the admit the corrupt ways and means adopted to secure such conversions.