Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
What the F are you talking about?
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
why dont you Indians just accept the fact that India has many extremists who don't major segments of India
instead of going around in circles and conjuring up semantic excuses for what is truly obvious
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
What the F are you talking about?
U'll know the F when next indo-pak series starts and hope by that time u remain on this board.
Re: Indian government provides protection
Congress supported caste based reservation. Can't you remember they played polictics in IIM/IIT/AIIMS. The problem with congress is they tend to keep muslims in front rather than taking everyone equally. Just last month manmohan singh said that minorties have first right on the resources. Bjp replied that everyone has equal rights. Now tell me who is trying to divide the society
Yes... BJP just said it and kept quite.They are doing this to kept upper caste voters happy but at the same time they are not doing any mass agitation.
Why BJP is not doing any Babri Masjid like movement on this issue.I will tell you why? It is because many section of Hindu voters will kick BJP's ass.
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BJP indirectly was involved in 2001 riots but congress was directly responsible for killing of thousands of sikhs in 1984 riots.
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Who are you kidding? How do you distinguish between Direct and Indirect resposibility?
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Congress has record of 0% development work. .
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Really... Show me a democratic country who has done better than India after 60 yrs of their Independence. Whether you accept it or not, your life is so good today because of Congress's forsightedness of investment into education and Industry. They did those things in 1960s when every other countries were busy doing something else.
You owe a lot to Nehru's vision of investment in education and Manmohan/Narsimha's vision of opening up the economy. If BJP has not dragged India by those communcal issues and voilences of 1990s, India would have done much better.
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
U'll know the F when next indo-pak series starts and hope by that time u remain on this board.
Give me an example, rather than going in circles. I have lived on this forum long enough to survive many Indian-Pak series. Talk about yourself.
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
ajtr, I do see your point in that it isn't morally right for the missionaries to convert in such underhanded ways like bigtime bribing and especially when the poor people are illiterate. But we do need to remember that the majority of Indian Christians have done a lot of good for India.
Dalits don't have a good life anyway since our caste system has been such a curse on Hinduism and there isn't any new edited version of our scriptures where the caste system could be removed out so until something like that can be possible dalits converting to Christianity could lead to a better life for them in terms of how a few scummy people in SOCIETY(not the Indian government since dalits do have affirmative action kind of laws on their side) treat them.
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
ajtr, I do see your point in that it isn't morally right for the missionaries to convert in such underhanded ways like bigtime bribing. But we do need to remember that the majority of Indian Christians have done a lot of good for India.
Dalits don't have a good life anyway since our caste system has been such a curse on Hinduism and there isn't any new edited version of our scriptures where the caste system could be removed out so until something like that can be possible dalits converting to Christianity could lead to a better life for them in terms of how a few scummy people in SOCIETY(not the Indian government since dalits have all kinds of perks and affirmative action kind of laws on their side) treat them.
You cannot get this into the head of people who are blinded by RSS's idealogy. Although what you are saying is simple common sense.
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
why dont you Indians just accept the fact that India has many extremists who don't major segments of India
instead of going around in circles and conjuring up semantic excuses for what is truly obvious
:CareBear:
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
why dont you Indians just accept the fact that India has many extremists who don't major segments of India
instead of going around in circles and conjuring up semantic excuses for what is truly obvious
Thats the whole problem my problem. 70% of Muslim secretly admire those Jihadi and condemn Hindu extrmism. Similary 50% Hindus secretly admire Hindu extremism and condemn Mulsim extremism. They cannot have it both ways. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
You need to be able to be just and condemn both. Both kind are painful and are hurting India.
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
I'm not a anti muslim /anti christian or anti-what ever,
i'm against conversion, 3 of my cousins are married to christians and one to a muslim, and no one is converted to any of the religion they follow their will
i feel even telling a person about the religion is also like forcing to convert him
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
ajtr, I do see your point in that it isn't morally right for the missionaries to convert in such underhanded ways like bigtime bribing and especially when the poor people are illiterate. But we do need to remember that the majority of Indian Christians have done a lot of good for India.
Dalits don't have a good life anyway since our caste system has been such a curse on Hinduism and there isn't any new edited version of our scriptures where the caste system could be removed out so until something like that can be possible dalits converting to Christianity could lead to a better life for them in terms of how a few scummy people in SOCIETY(not the Indian government since dalits do have affirmative action kind of laws on their side) treat them.
Yes, I agree if christianity can provide anyone with good moral values and respectable life they should convert on their own. The problem comes when the missionaries start taking advantage of their poverty.
Tell the people of the good things about christianity. Tell the moral values christians hold. Talk about Christian philosophy, and let the people decide. Don't take advantage of anyones poverty to get them follow your religion.
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
Yes, I agree if christianity can provide anyone with good moral values and respectable life they should convert on their own. The problem comes when the missionaries start taking advantage of their poverty. ....
Are people so poor in Shining Hindustan that their souls can be bought with some peanuts in such large masses?
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
sadly yes there are very poor people but they choose to live :halo:rather than
blowing themself for nothing .
Re: Indian government provides protection
It was not congress but VP Singh who started caste based politics. I agree with your assesment in general though but BJP took it to next level where killing others was legitimized.. They made whole conutry ransom for stupid Babri Masjid. Sadly none of the RSS/BJP supporter now ask BJP that what happened to so much hatred and killing. Where is my Ram Janam Bhoomi?
So true.. now tell me what ecnomic benefit has Congress given to Muslims that congress is accused of appeasing muslims for. All they have done is stupid things like Shah Bano case or Muslim personal law. None of them changes economic condition of Muslims. So what economic benefit are we talking about? What siginificant appeasement policy are we talking about..
If BJP and its croonies are really serious about issue of 'providingbased on economic condition' then they should openly oppose Mandal Commision. But guess what they dont have balls to annoy huge section of hindu votes.They also need those Backwards and ST/SC votes. Now tell me who is playing vote bank politics.
Very true. It was VP singh who came to power with the BJP support that implemented Mandal commission report which was in the backburner for 20 long years when congress was ruling.
How can BJP also critisize Karunanidhi when they themselves was in the coalition with him in the previous govt. Then they did not know that DMK was anti brahmin and anti hindu.
BJP also cannot claim to be not in favour of reservation. Their support in major part of India comes from OBCs and BCs. Many of their chief ministers are from backward classes.
However there is one issues which I feel strongly about. This is conversion. In my opinion conversion should be banned. In order to convert you have to prove (or seems to ) that one religion is better than the other. This invariably causes tension. If you keep Hinduism to temples, Islam to mosques and christianity to churches then it would be better for the whole of India. Once they start preaching outside their territory then friction arises and leads to conflicts. In this respect the major blame lies with with Abrahamic religions. It is they who actively go about preaching and encourages conversion and refuse to admit that hinduism can be put in equal footing. In my personal observation I also see that when a muslim/christian boy marries a hindu girl then the girl invariably has to change their religion, otherwise the couple are outcast from their society. It is not always true the other way round. A hindu boy marrying a christian/ muslim girl do not generally insist on changing the girl's religion.
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
Tell the people of the good things about christianity. Tell the moral values christians hold. Talk about Christian philosophy, and let the people decide. Don't take advantage of anyones poverty to get them follow your religion.
Thats exactly what most missionary do.
Re: Indian government provides protection
Very true. It was VP singh who came to power with the BJP support that implemented Mandal commission report which was in the backburner for 20 long years when congress was ruling. How can BJP also critisize Karunanidhi when they themselves was in the coalition with him in the previous govt. Then they did not know that DMK was anti brahmin and anti hindu. BJP also cannot claim to be not in favour of reservation. Their support in major part of India comes from OBCs and BCs. Many of their chief ministers are from backward classes. However there is one issues which I feel strongly about. This is conversion. In my opinion conversion should be banned. In order to convert you have to prove (or seems to ) that one religion is better than the other. This invariably causes tension. If you keep Hinduism to temples, Islam to mosques and christianity to churches then it would be better for the whole of India. Once they start preaching outside their territory then friction arises and leads to conflicts. In this respect the major blame lies with with Abrahamic religions. It is they who actively go about preaching and encourages conversion and refuse to admit that hinduism can be put in equal footing. In my personal observation I also see that when a muslim/christian boy marries a hindu girl then the girl invariably has to change their religion, otherwise the couple are outcast from their society. It is not always true the other way round. A hindu boy marrying a christian/ muslim girl do not generally insist on changing the girl's religion.
Good point. I personaly dont have issues if Government bans these activities. It is ok aslong as it is law.It is definitly better than RSS's goons taking law in their hands and killing people. But I think this will be infringment on person's basic rights of being able to chose what relegion one wants to follow.
Re: Indian government provides protection
However there is one issues which I feel strongly about. This is conversion. In my opinion conversion should be banned. In order to convert you have to prove (or seems to ) that one religion is better than the other. This invariably causes tension.
It is against freedom if ban is imposed. Even if such ban is made a law, it can never be implemented properly. Personally i feel, give complete freedom.If missionaries want to demean other faiths, let them do it. Then it automatically means that even Other organizations in other faiths can demean christianity or any faith. what i mean is, let everybody demean every other faith as long as it doen't get physical. Nobody is a looser and gradually people will come to their senses that religion is something personal and not some number game!.
P.S: As such i don't believe that conversions can happen, it is all there in the mind.
Re: Indian government provides protection
:k: :k:
Key point here is that dont get Physical.
Re: Indian government provides protection
It is against freedom if ban is imposed. Even if such ban is made a law, it can never be implemented properly. Personally i feel, give complete freedom.If missionaries want to demean other faiths, let them do it. Then it automatically means that even Other organizations in other faiths can demean christianity or any faith. what i mean is, let everybody demean every other faith as long as it doen't get physical. Nobody is a looser and gradually people will come to their senses that religion is something personal and not some number game!.
P.S: As such i don't believe that conversions can happen, it is all there in the mind.
I am no Gandhi, I would take punitive action if somebody comes and ridicules my personal things. Just like one feel offended and retaliate when somebody makes fun of your father or mother. It is human to do so. Demeaning is not a positive thing.
Its not that people get a better life when they convert. It could have been so a century or half ago but not now. It is the same people who have converted then who are showing discrimination today towards the newly converted. The CSI the congregation of people converted from lower caste hindus are not allowed in brahminical catholic churches. They have to have their own church to go to. They are still treated as lower caste, untouchables even by their own fellow followers. So where in conversion one benefits.
Re: Hundereds of Christians move to camps to avoid attacks by Hindu Extremists
Thats exactly what most missionary do.
Take advantage of the poverty of the people?