Re: Hudood Ordinance Amended!!! (Merged)
**binAadam: **Do you ever think, or you are completely brainwashed? It seems that what ever you write, at least whatever you wrote on this forum, does not make sense to any sensible. Seems only you and those brainwashed that could not think, could understand you.
**Now do not comment on my post if you do not find time to read and understand it, as commenting without reading and understanding is trait of ignorance. **If you cannot find time to read my post, consider that my post is not for you, as my time is more precious then your ignorance.
I and I believe many can imagine the level of your intellectual thinking from your post. You are trying to say that rape, adultery and fornication is same crime, and should have same punishment. In this way, you are not showing ignorance but you are also accusing Allah, that Allah considers them as same crime. Fact is that, rapist, ignorant, supporters and protectors of rapists, evil people and mentally retarded mind would think that way.
** Why?
Because:** Rape is an act by force and adultery/fornication is an act by consent. Now, only an idiot would consider that force and consent is same?
*Can you answer that if someone enters your house and rapes your sister (forced her), would you consider that same as adultery/fornication (sex with consent, where your sister consent was there as much as rapist)? *
Can’t you understand simple fact or is it very difficult for you to understand, that rape is a crime against the girl and state should punish the rapist to give justice to that victim girl? It is nothing to do with religion but it is to do with providing justice to the girl (and that is why, rape is punishable everywhere in the world, regardless of race, colour, or religion).
Whereas adultery/fornication is crime against no one other then themselves (and their Lord, Allah) as act happened with consent. There is no punishment in Islam if adultery/fornication happened in private, not in public with four witnesses (in such cases, only punishment is by Allah, after death). Even if there were three witnesses, there is no punishment in Islam (if state punishes, state is doing against command of Quran, and thus un-Islamic).
If adultery/fornication is done publicly then it is crime against the society, and in such situation, four witnesses are required else society has no right to punish (according to Quran). Thus, for such crime to become crime against society, Allah gave numbers that at least four pious trustworthy people from the society should have witnessed that adultery/fornication.
Now, if four witnesses are available (that is almost impossible), then and only then state can punish, and if state gives punishment, they would do that not to give justice to anyone, but to discourage such act and deter people from such act, in the society.
To punish anyone of adultery or fornication without four witnesses would be going against the command of Allah. A command, that Allah has forced on Muslims in his ayahs [Surah Noor (24), ayah 4].
Thus, we have two situation regarding adultery/fornication. That is:
Adultery/fornication:
Crime against Allah alone (no four human witnesses are found), punishment is left with Allah, and no human could give any punishment. In such situation, Allah virtually tells humans in Quran to mind their own business and leave others alone (that includes those involved in adultery/fornication).
Crime against Allah and society (four pious adult Muslim male witnesses are required) and if witnesses are found, state can give punishment. If there is less then four witnesses, crime should be considered as no crime against the society and thus if state punishes anyone on that, they would be going against the Quran.
Rape:
It is different crime from adultery/fornication, where one (rapist) is doing zulum on another (victim woman). Here, state cannot leave punishment with Allah, after death, just because four witnesses are not available. Because, here there is a victim and state has duty to provide justice to her (not due to rapist disobeying Allah but because that rapist has done zulum on a citizen, victim of rape). For such crime, state can make laws to punish the rapist and could not leave the rapist to stay free, because four witnesses are not there.
Note: Adultery and fornication is like killing in war (or jihad), where killing is with consent, and both party agrees to kill or be killed. No one can punish a killer in war as murderer of person he killed in war.
Murder is also killing, but it is different type of killing. Here killing happened without consent of the person killed. Hence, state treats the murderer as criminal and punishes the murderer to give justice to the person killed (person murdered).]
Now, fix this in your mind:
Hudud-ul-Zia ordinace was nothing to do with Islam, Allah, or Hudud-ul-Allah but it was fabrication of Zia’s and some retards imagination, a black spot on Islam and ploy of Iblis. The only purpose that ordinance served was that it made mockery of Hudud-ul-Allah, by introducing Hudud-ul-Insan with retarded minds (like mind of Zia and his chailay, chamchay) and then associating that Hudud-ul-Zia to Hudud-ul-Allah.
Further: Make sure that you get this in your mind that:
**
Rape or zina-bil-jabar is crime against the victim (girl raped) as any crime that involves innocent victims.** In this crime, girl, the victim, complains to the state that someone raped her and that she wants justice. Now, it is duty of state to give her justice by punishing the rapist.
Adultery/fornication is a crime against oneself (and Allah) and no innocent victims involved. Allah has stopped the state to punish anyone on such crime, unless there are four witnesses (command of Allah, from Quran), thus state has no right to punish for such crime if four witnesses are not available (not even by using Tazir law, as that is going against Quran). In this crime, no victim complains or could complain to the state (as happens in rape cases), as act happened with consent.
The only person that may find that his contract violated due to adultery of a woman is her husband (where contract is his marriage contract). In such case (only in such case), Allah has introduced a process of Laan, where husband complains to state without witnesses, but by oath and in return, wife can also take oath that husband is lying. If both take oath than state cannot do anything but could only enforce divorce with consent of the party (divorce is not in Quran, hence it means, if state enforces divorce, at least wife should agree to it), that is all. Thus, here also, there is no punishment other than divorce.
Mufti Taqi talked about self-confession by perpetrator and punishment on that basis, but that shows the level his ignorance and retarded mind, nothing else.
Why? Fact is that, if Pakistan police wants to and given free hand to make Mufti Taqi confess that he has done adultery (or even rape), in few days police would make Mufti Taqi confess that he has done adultery, and he would even start saying that in court that he had done adultery [Does Mufti Taqi knows that or not?]
Now ‘Self-confession with own free will’ where it stands?
A person that does adultery, fornication, (or even rape) would never confess when knowing that confession would make him face punishment. Only retarded idiots would think that such people would confess voluntarily, so that to get punish.
Even if such people after such act (adultery, fornication, rape etc) would become Allah fearing, still they would not confess but would hope that Allah will forgive their sin (well, if they take worldly punishment, actually, they are unbeliever, as it would show that they are not trusting Allah’s forgiveness from sin).
Well, these people may confess only if they have gone insane. Thus, if they confess, state should consider them insane and instead of punishing, state should send them to hospital. Nevertheless, it is against Islam to punish insane and thus, state could not punish such person.
Under exceptional circumstances, even if they confess, even tazir (Pakistan panal court) could give them punishment.
Now, to support what I wrote, here are ayahs of Quran:
Surah Noor (24) Ayah (1-10):
(24:1) A sura which We have sent down and which We have ordained in it have We sent down Clear Signs, in order that ye may receive admonition.
From above ayah, it is clear that what Allah is going to mention in this surah and later ayahs, Allah is especially saying that it is a warning (admonition) to those that do not (or would not) follow what he is saying. What Allah is asking to follow? Let see.
(24:2) The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Above ayah is nothing to do with Zina-bil-jabar, because if one reads ayah 24:4, that is part of topic where the ayah 24:2 also comes, it clearly shows that Zina (adultery or fornication) mentioned in ayah 34:2, is to do with case when someone has accused a women for adultery/fornication. Whereas, in rape case, it is not accusation by some on woman, but it is complain by women against a rapist to the state.
In above ayah, Allah has given his command (Hadd) for adultery or fornication, but not rape. Note, there is no Rajam in the ayah. If there would have been rajam (stoning leading to death), asking forgiveness from Allah by sinners would be meaningless. Some people quote hadith regarding rajam.
Nevertheless, there is also a hadith that when Prophet (SAW) send a judge * to a place (I think it was Yemen), Prophet (SAW) asked that how would he judge there. That Sahaba said that, according to Quran, Prophet (SAW) asked that if you do not find a thing in Quran then, Sahaba said that according to what he saw the Prophet (SAW) doing, then Prophet (SAW) asked that if something is still new, then the Sahaba said that then he would do according to Ijtihad and then follow Ijmah. Prophet (SAW) endorsed that.
Thus, when Quran is explicit regarding the punishment for Zina (adultery and fornication), no human has any right to change that and if there is any hadith contrary to that, that hadith could not be words of Prophet (SAW). It is logical too, as there could be no different punishment for same crime.
[In Arabic, there is no different word for adultery and fornication. The word for both is Zina. Amongst Jews and kuffars out of Arabia, there was different word for adultery and fornication, and Jews had different punishment for the crime. I believe that when Islam spread to these areas, concept of adultery and fornication crept into Muslims mind and hadith created to make punishment different.]
Just imagine, according to some retarded ulema, a man can give divorce (talaq) anytime (even while alone) without even telling anyone or his wife. Thus, the punishment being different is funny, that only effect women. A man if caught of adultery can claim that he is not married, as he gave talaq before adultery, and it would be accepted, as no witnesses are required for talaq, not even wife had to know (according to retarded ulemas). Thus, his case would be of fornication at most. Women have no such luxury.
(24:3) Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
Above ayah proves that punishment of adultery and fornication is 100 lashes, nothing else. If it was stoning then, how Quran can talk about them getting married? Actually, law of Allah has not differentiated punishment for any crimes on basis of a person state, like being married, divorced, or single.
Well, logic says that in religion if a person should get different punishment because that person has different state (married or unmarried) then according to same ‘ijtihadi’ logic, a rich person should get different punishment for stealing then poor person, but that is not the case. Thus, Muslim should obey Quran and not obey Shaitan and his introduction in Islam (though that introduction is impractical to implement, but still, it is part of belief and in some retarded countries, retards tried to implement it too). To claim that Prophet (SAW) said so, that rajam is part of Islam, is accusing Prophet (SAW) that he contradicted what was there clearly mentioned in Quran (that is impossible).
Actually, Prophet (SAW) could not have introduced anything in Islam that is contradictory to Quran, and thus no Muslim should attribute a saying to Prophet (SAW) about Rajam, that is obvious contradiction with Quran. Nevertheless, different punishment for same crime is illogical, and Allah nor Islam is illogical. Rather Islam, being true religion from Allah, cannot be illogical in any way.
**
(24:4) And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-**
Above ayah is very important ayah, regarding charging or accusing anyone of Adultery/fornication. One should look at above ayah and think what Allah is telling Muslims in this ayah? Please do not be ignorant, but read the above ayah of Quran, understand it and think what Allah tells Muslim in these ayahs.
Above ayah (24:4) clearly says that, ‘if a women is accused by someone, that person has to back their accusation with four witnesses, else accuser should get punished’. It does not say that accusation means that woman becomes convict. Rather, above ayah is safeguarding the women, even if she does adultery but that adultery is not in front of four witnesses that have seen the adultery happening, with certainty.
[Witnesses that cannot be certain that adultery happened, their witness has no value, rather they become guilty themselves. A witness should have seen adultery or fornication with certainty that cannot be evidential but factual. That means, they have seen entering male organ in woman, to confirm that factually adultery happened).
Thus, above ayah (24:4) clearly says to Muslims that do not accuse a woman of Zina (adultery or fornication), unless you can bring four witnesses. Ayah does not say that Zina did not happen but ayah says that if anyone accuses, then accuser has to produce four witnesses and if not, they should be punished.
Thus, to flog them of adultery or fornication mentioned in ayah 24:2, there is condition, that is need of four witnesses. In effect, ayah 24:4 is saying that people should mind their own businesses and do not accuse anyone of adultery/fornication, unless they can produce four witnesses (that is impossible).
Now, since it is impossible to bring such four witnesses of adultery or fornication, only other way is confession. That is what these retards say, that witnesses is impossible, but confession is possible, hence law should stay. Mufti Taqi also said in his interview same thing, that there is possibility of confession. Well, that is impossible too, unless a person is forced or is mental (as I wrote earlierin ‘self-confession with own free will’), so that argument goes out of window.
(24:5) Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Note, in above ayah also, Allah is saying that he is oft forgiving and merciful. Now, when it is must believe in Islam that Allah is oft forgiving and merciful, why self-confess for punishment, rather hope for the forgiveness of Allah? Thus, it is a proof that if anyone does that, self-confess, that person is forced, blackmailed or is mental, needing treatment.
Ayahs below is regarding, husband accusing wife of adultery. It is to do with Laan procedure in Islam. Ayahs are easy to understand and one should try to understand that, rather become brainwashed and misguided by retards claiming to be guardian of Islam.
*(24:6) And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
(24:7) And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie. *
*(24:8) But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie; *
*(24:9) And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth. *
*(24:10) If it were not for Allah's grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft-Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed). *
Above ayah clearly says that what he has made law (Hudud) in above ayahs, it is mercy on people, full of wisdom. Thus, it is obvious, that the laws are not about barbaric act of stoning or interfering with people private life, but they are mercy. [Unfortunately, some retards, following Iblis and introducing religion of Iblis in religion of Allah, would never understand that]*