How would you justify FATE if,

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Future is consequential to your actions

Any thoughts?

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Re: How would you justify FATE if,

What if we relate FATE with our PRESENT? contrary to popular belief. Doesn't it solve this conundrum then?

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You live in present, rest is all future, how may we relate Fate to Present?

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Re: How would you justify FATE if,

Fate determines that you will find a lost wallet/purse with a large sum of money inside.
Your actions determine what you will do with that wallet and the large sum of money.

Destiny is pre-written.
You will be judged by the actions you take.

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that what we do NOW, we were destined to do that. But again it will start another philosophical debate that if what we do now was predetermined then whats the point of making choices. Back to square one again. :hinna:

I think the answer lies in a scientific approach. :smiley: The M-Theory states that every possible action we can take, WE TAKE in a different dimension. this brings element of fate and predetermined future togather.

Hamari Baat Ka Kuch Aisa Asar Howa....
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well said.

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This is an interesting definition of Fate and destiny. Why would I be judged by my actions if my destiny is pre-written, in that scenario my convictions are already written into my conscious .

If my destiny is pre-written my actions can never deviate from the course that leads to my destiny and in that case my actions are pre-written too.

Wht r u doing ?
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In other words we can’t justify belief in destiny if it is consequential to our actions, meaning that we can write our own future.

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Re: How would you justify FATE if,

Your destiney is pre-written to the extent that scenarios you will face have been determined.
How you react in those scenarios is not pre-destined.

You have been given a heart and mind to use to make choices. Knowledge has been provided and you have been directed to use that knowledge.

That is why/how you will be answerable to your actions.

Btw....this theory is based on the assumption that your convictions are not inherent. They will be developed.

Guest of the Week- Jiia
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Re: How would you justify FATE if,

^ i have a similar concept of fate:konfused:

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Muzna, life is nothing but a bunch of scenarios, cascading effect of one scenario dictates the start of a new scenario. If each scenario is pre determined, I am not left to decide anything for me, my destiny, in other words, is sealed.

"Let us imagine a child and a grown-up in Heaven who both died in the True Faith, but the grown-up has a higher place than the child. And the child will ask God, “Why did you give that man a higher place?” And God will answer, “He has done many good works.” Then the child will say, “Why did you let me die so soon so that I was prevented from doing good?” God will answer, “I knew that you would grow up a sinner, therefore it was better that you should die a child.” Then a cry goes up from the damned in the depths of Hell, “Why, O Lord, did you not let us die before we became sinners"

I am not trying to dispute any sane opinion here, just wanted to know how educated people think about it.

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Re: How would you justify FATE if,

My actions decide the framework of choices presented to me within the course of time, the direction of which is already mapped out by destiny and the fate of it is decided by those very actions.

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Re: How would you justify FATE if,

simple .. you said it yourself .. if future is consequential to ur actions then thats destiney ..

as the saying goes .. you reep what you sow .. i think this is how it goes

Timepass - October 2012
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Yes this reminded me of a Joke:

An Airline Pilot and a Priest end up in heaven where St Peter puts the Pilot in a much higher place than the Priest.
The Priest objects saying why is he given such a high reward?

St Peter replied…while you worked people slept…on the other hand while he worked people prayed…:omg:

Life is all about how we make it…and leave the rest to the Almighty…

The not so good of a “speaker” priest even though he dedicates his life to guiding his flock in the right direction gets a lower grade than

The not so good Pilot who keeps his passenger on edge so they all prayed sincerely to land safely!.

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Is it not your pick among the presented choices that decide the "framework" of actions.?

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Yes you are right, sorry, I worded it all wrong, was in a hurry. what I meant was that my actions are decided by the choices presented to me in that moment in time, the direction of which is already mapped out by destiny and eventually fate will be the judge of those actions.

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This contradicts the notion of an all knowing god.

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This statement is partially correct.

Not all of our actions lead to what happens in our future. Meaning, results are not entirely bound to our actions.

We may just not be able to get the result of our action by

1- Our inability. (Not everyone can get 100% marks in an exam)

2-Someone else changing result based on someone elses reaction to our action.
(The teacher may not be satisfied with otherwise good answer due to his/her concept of what is right or wrong answer)

Fate as I understand is simply a record of what is going to happen in our future.

God may just be an observer to, and all knowing of, our actions; and after giving us ability to choose simply observes what comes out in our future.

Religious beliefs state that God is all knowing meaning he knows what choices we will make and what will happen in future. But we still have ability to change the fate with proper actions.

Having said that, let me give a scenario:

Two men are rushing to the gate to catch a plane. One gets there on time other is late only by few minutes due to traffic or whatever. The plane crashes, everyone dies on board.

What do we call this scenario?

Some would call it chance or even luck others will call it fate .

Concept of responsibility:

Someone came to Ali (RAA) and asked why we are to be responsible for our actions and go to hell or heaven when its all from Allah?

Ali (RAA) asked him to lift his one leg while standing then asked if he could lift the other leg too. Obviously he could not.

Meaning he had only partial ability to do something.

Moral: There are certain things which we are able to do and will be responsible for those. If we are unable to do something then we will not be responssible for what happens.

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Re: How would you justify FATE if,

:hmmm:

Timepass - October 2012
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Re: How would you justify FATE if,

Qismat main likha tha pee, to pee main
Qismat kay likhay ko nibhaya kiaa khata ki main nay
Main naa peeta to tera likha galat hojaata
Teray likhay ko nibhaaya, kiaa khata ki main nay ...

Khar it was one from a qawwali ...

Well ... few things are fixed that can't be changed, e.g. death, birth and income, ... where as we are free to select what we like in many things in our lives, ...
in the life span, many things could be changed , that depends on our actions, our beloved faith and prayers and also foes's evil actions ...

Work hard, leave the rest to Allah and be happy on what you get! simply say "Alhamdulillah' always ... that might chage the result! ... and those who don't get what they probably deserve; shall be rewarded on the day of judgment! inshAllah