Re: How To Judge?
this is religious forum, so the matter must be resolved by Revelation from God
you were actually heard the first time but conjecture doesnt hold weight here. most of us already know what the liberal handbook says
What exactly was conjecture on my part? I also have no idea what a liberal handbook is. I have no idea what you mean by the first sentence.
Respectfully.
Re: How To Judge?
I think the word enemy is not correct. Only ignorance brings enmity in hearts. By far, Islam brings a lot of tolerance and peace in a true practicing muslim. It's unfortunate that todays muslims are even more ignorant of their religion. But it is much more unfortunate that people who have hatred against Islam, those who clearly show their enmity against Islam, and those who indulge in arguments about Islam with a clear hidden agenda define this religion by the actions of ignorant muslims...
So, when it comes to Islam, the only enemies of Islam are the ones who attack Islam, it's teachings and Prophet Muhammad (SAW)...
Those non-muslims who do not bash Islam and the prophet (SAW) are clearly not any enemies..
So logical and simple are the teachings...
salam alaikum jinx, i do agree somewhat but its focus seems abit lopsided.
the lopsidedness makes some of us look 'good' (moderate) and some us of 'ugly' (extreme)
what about holding enmity for those who do attack Islam, it's teachings and Prophet Muhammad (SAW)...? you didnt actually say
at what point does their attack begin?
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I think the word enemy is not correct*.*
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there is evidence for other ideologies being enemies or atleast as being seen as hostile. us towards them and them towards us, (and non-harming of those individuals who offer peace)
even between muslims we are commanded to enjoin good, forbid evil. the jews went astray because they did not
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Only ignorance brings enmity in hearts.
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is this from your overall opinion or do you have daleel for it?
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By far, Islam brings a lot of tolerance and peace in a true practicing muslim
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Allah SWT has given the example of believers being harsh against disbelievers, and other ayats such as bringing the transgressing party to haq by fighting, so although i agree with you the tolerant are pious, i am a little concerned by the intended purpose of naming tolerant and peace as the benefits of a 'true practicing muslim'. not all muslims are in the same situation, some carry enmity for reward, like the hadith of RasoolAllah SAW of stop it with your hand, your tongue or be against it by heart.
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define this religion by the actions of ignorant muslims...
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why were the 'ignorants' at the forefront?
because Allah SWT enrages the disbelievers with the believers, and all believers are to be united so it doesnt look too rosy for those who are opposite of ignorant
i have doubts about whether having a positive image, in the nonmuslim world, is good and even possible for good muslims.
we are all in the same boat ignorant, knowledgeable, moderates, shodderates, extremists and all. we do not know our verdicts
Re: How To Judge?
What exactly was conjecture on my part? I also have no idea what a liberal handbook is. I have no idea what you mean by the first sentence.
Respectfully.
nevermind, its not important
Re: How To Judge?
there are situations where you are with us or against us
as i shared with you before AlMaidah verse 51, makes takfir on this issue. did you not notice or do you reject my interpretation?
also shirk is a belief and it is the worst thing in sight of Allah SWT (unforgivable!), likewise incorrect belief can make a person identifiably kafir, with what has been revealed from Allah SWT through his Messenger SAW. ofcourse Allah SWT is everyones ultimate judge
real enemies are anti-social? punishable sinners yes but real enemies?
Re: How To Judge?
nevermind, its not important
Yeah, I thought so.
Re: How To Judge?
there are situations where you are with us or against us
as i shared with you before AlMaidah verse 51, makes takfir on this issue. did you not notice or do you reject my interpretation?
As I said earlier the verse 5:51 does not criminalize all jews and christians but only those who make war. So there is no question of takfir of those muslims who have jewish or christian friends.This verse also says that Jews are christians are friends of each other whereas we all know about their differences. even quran tells us that the enmity will remain between them. They join hands and become friends when they work against Islam. Try to understand this point.
Let me quote another Quranic verse 60:8 which says
"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice."
Now what say you? Kindly try to understand things in context.
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also shirk is a belief and it is the worst thing in sight of Allah SWT (unforgivable!), likewise incorrect belief can make a person identifiably kafir, with what has been revealed from Allah SWT through his Messenger SAW. ofcourse Allah SWT is everyones ultimate judge
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shirk is a sin but not a crime. kafir this and kafir that. ? what is your point? If a person commits shirk, that is between him and Allah. you can convey the message of Islam to him but you cannot punish (one way or the other) him for that.
btw, the holy prophet (pbuh) said for instance "One who adulterates is not one of us". Does your list of enemies include him despite him being a muslim?
Re: How To Judge?
salam alaikum jinx, i do agree somewhat but its focus seems abit lopsided. the lopsidedness makes some of us look 'good' (moderate) and some us of 'ugly' (extreme)
what about holding enmity for those who do attack Islam, it's teachings and Prophet Muhammad (SAW)...? you didnt actually say at what point does their attack begin?
there is evidence for other ideologies being enemies or atleast as being seen as hostile. us towards them and them towards us, (and non-harming of those individuals who offer peace)
even between muslims we are commanded to enjoin good, forbid evil. the jews went astray because they did not
is this from your overall opinion or do you have daleel for it?
Allah SWT has given the example of believers being harsh against disbelievers, and other ayats such as bringing the transgressing party to haq by fighting, so although i agree with you the tolerant are pious, i am a little concerned by the intended purpose of naming tolerant and peace as the benefits of a 'true practicing muslim'. not all muslims are in the same situation, some carry enmity for reward, like the hadith of RasoolAllah SAW of stop it with your hand, your tongue or be against it by heart.
why were the 'ignorants' at the forefront?
because Allah SWT enrages the disbelievers with the believers, and all believers are to be united so it doesnt look too rosy for those who are opposite of ignorant
i have doubts about whether having a positive image, in the nonmuslim world, is good and even possible for good muslims.
we are all in the same boat ignorant, knowledgeable, moderates, shodderates, extremists and all. we do not know our verdicts
I have to respectfully disagree bro.
And I will be very precise. Not in the mood to write lenghty reply at the moment so just couple of points:
1) Being Harsh is not equal to being an enemy. e.g: sometimes parents have to be harsh on their children in disciplining them. They mean well for the kids and not because they are their enemy.
2) If you prefer to be the enemy of some particular people, how are you going to convince to accept the faith. You will fail to even communicate with them. Disliking or not approving certain behavior or faiths (answer to kchughtai sahib here too) does not mean you are enemy of them.