How to Clear the Mess

Is Imran really this stupid?

Pakistan was allied with the Taliban. We gave them support. They were dependent on Pakistan for goods and services that came into Afghanistan. They were hosting a foreign terrorist organization which was plotting global attacks. It is very much Pakistan's concern since we were their parental care takers.

Again total nonsense by Imran.

The Taliban were used by Pakistan as mercenaries to guard truck convoys from Central Asia. Then ISI hatched a plan to install them in Afghanistan. They were not welcomed with open arms by the Afghan population. Their tactics in installing law and order can be compared to the Nazis in Germany in 1930's when their Gestappo Police Units rounded up people and murdered them or tortured them.

For a person like Imran Khan to defend Taliban is really pathetic.

The only way for Pakistan to bail out is end its jihadi wars in Afghanistan and Kashmir and concentrate on building schools, infrastructure and betterment of the country. As for financial aid, It's America's money, they wish to despensce as they see fit.

As for killing our own people. 6,000 Pakistanis have been killed by the Taliban animals. They openly attack Pakistani Soldiers, fly a different flag instead of Pakistani Flag, and openly attack any non-tribal who comes to visit this area.

What is Imran Khan smoking to think that these are our people.

The Tribals were against the creation of Pakistan in 1947. They were never our people. We just got lumped with these idiots when Pakistan got created.

Our people, my ass.

Lets see. 9/11 came form Tribal Areas. 7/7 came from Tribal Areas. Other plans hatched came from Tribal Areas. There is no other place on earth where there is no government jurisdiction where Al Qaeda terrorists are actively seeking out terrorist attacks throughout the world.

As for 70% of Afghan areas not under US control. The difference is US can move troops there and temporarily control that area. Not so in Tribal Areas as soon as they move troops there they get attacked. So while USA can neutralize areas of Afghanistan this cannot happen in Pakistani Tribal Areas.

And thus this area is the largest source of potential terrorist attack in the world.

What kind of bull**** is Imran Khan quoting?

What official reports. Please tell him to provide links.

In all the attacks that USA has launched almost 95% of people killed have been Taliban and Al Qaeda terrorists. Thats why Taliban go on the rampage when their comrades die. Thats why they quickly show up at the bombed out area and bury their buddies. Where are the wailing relatives of 800 dead innocent Pakistanis?

And what about the thousands that have been killed in Taliban suicide attacks.

Is this guy really this stupid.

That is the exact opposite apporach. Vilalge and Tribal Justice does not work. The powerful in the village will rule over the rest and the weak will suffer.

We need an impartial justice system where everyone is equal before the law.

Men and women are treated equal and no longer will a woman's testimoney be worth 1/3 of a man or a woman has to produce 4 witnesses to collaborate her side of the story.

I agree with that. But can thoe madrassahs not teach hate of Jews, Hindus and Westerners?

The concept of Madrassah is not bad but when they incorporate terrorism, hatred and jihad into the mix....then its when it becomes deadly....

Merging school systems is a myth and it will never happen Pakistan. Public education will never reach a level in which middle class people will send their kids to public schools.

The plan should be get the madrassahs not to teach hate, terrorism and jihad but instead a modern curriculum.

Agree 100%

Agree 100%

The militant groups will not disarm by themselves. They will have to be forcefully disarmed.

Pakistan is no where as open as Iran was in the 1970's. And Iran is a very nationalist state and thus it felt its culture was being threatened. So it was not just a fall back to religion but also to nationalism. When Khomeni landed from Paris his supporters were from the Iran's communist party to Iranian secular and nationalists.

As for fundamentalism...it can be cured by setting up schools not teaching hate and terrorism and eliminating those who still do.

Nazi Germany could not be reasoned with and thus it was utterly destroyed.

Similarly we have to do the same.

If that was the case then every poor nation in the world would be breeding terrorists.

Pakistan is a unique case as it used Jihad to create this taliban monster that it now cannot control.

Re: How to Clear the Mess

Just one question to Imran Khan

There is no doubt that it's NOT our war BUT taliban are operating in our country and taking our our land.

Should we invite American forces to come into Pakistan and fight taliban since it's their war???

Re: How to Clear the Mess

Imran's argument is flawed in that he wrote Pakistan had no need to send soldiers into the FATA in 2003-2004, and only did so under US pressure.

At that time, NATO and Afghanistan reported coming under attack from forces based in the FATA, and claimed repeatedly that attackers would retreat back into the FATA when pressed.

Pakistan recognises Hamid Karzai as the sole and legitimate leader of Afghanistan, and acted to prevent Pakistani territory being used to attack him. Soldiers were sent in to search for foreigners who were doing such attacks; but in some areas local tribes allied themselves to these foreigners and attacked army personnel leading to conflict.

If Pakistan's soldiers were not used to find people in the FATA attacking NATO and Afghanistan's army : then who's soldiers should have been done this?

Re: How to Clear the Mess

I wonder why we even gave importance to the words of a person who don't even consider Taliban an enemy or this war as Pakistan's own war.

Look at the people of Pakistan, they are changing, media is coming against these thugs/killers, and the Immi Bhai still living under the state of denial,...the prospects of becoming a leader of Pakistan is fading fast for him, indeed !

This is an often repeated myth that CIA trained and supplied weapons to Bin Laden, AlQaeda and other arab terrorists during Afghan war. The weapons supply, money and training from US and CIA were strictly thought Pakistan's ISI channels. Zia was very strict about it and controlled the weapons and money supply to groups that Pakistan favored like Hekmatyar. Bin Laden, Al Zawahiri and the rest of arab AlQaeda were fiercely anti-american from the very beginning. Their involvement in Afghan war was through other channels and limited. Saudi Arabia matched US spending to every dollar and saw Afghanistan and Pakistan as an opportunity to increase their wahabi and extremist influences to counter Iran. Egypt provided most of the ammunition and weapons as well as dumped most of its troublesome Egytian Muslim Brotherhood and Islamic Jihad members from jails to Afghanistan.

Imran's mentor Hamid Gul was second in command after General Akhtar to run the Afghan war and knows that in detail. One can assume that Imran knows it too but have chosen to misinform people.

Also, the 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh is of Pakistani descent.

Re: How to Clear the Mess

I have lost all respect for Imran Khan after this stupid article

Just for your Info, Khalid Shaikh is a Kuwaiti National...

Re: How to Clear the Mess

I have red all the replies, and I can understand Y the members of MQM have disagreed as no matter what the reality is, they just look forward and obey what their master has to say from London.

Along with MQM there are few who sits and enjoy their lives in USA, apparently have no idea about the ground realities, about the geo-graphic location , about the history of this place and most importantly about the so-called Pakistan's war on terror.

How it was Pakistan's war on terror, when Pakistan never started it, Yes Pakistan did provided logistic support to USA to launch attacks on Afghanistan. But never-ever Pakistani forces took any part in the invasion of Afhganistan..

It was when American after 4/5 years of invasion, seen no victory or chances of having one, started blaming everything on Pakistan. They were beaten and well beaten by Afghani Freedom-Fighters, with all their latest technology and war-equipments, Americans were limited to their cantonments or some big cities like Kabul.

To find an exit and divert world's attention from the humilating defeat, they with the help of Media and India ( Arch rival of Pakistan), started a campaign against Pakistan, setting the ground, unfortunately, at that time Paksitan was under Musharaf, who was unable to see anything but his chair. Thats when it was frst time labeled as Pakistan's war.

Now, some so-called leaders, while sitting in London, are showing their fears and reservation againt Talibans, these leaders are right on that, but what steps Pakistan has to take to overcome this threat, how to tackle the issue with minimum loss of Life, how to solve the problem.. none has given the practical/real solution.

I am not the biggest Fan of Imran Khan, nor his article is flawless, as it has not came from Allah, these are thoughts of a person, but in principle his article does carry point...

The Afghan problem is not going to be solved unless and untill American forces pack their bags and go home, Pakistan has the capacity to deal with them.. but undermining the Indian threat and just concentrating on Taliban is not the way to solve the problem...

We Pakistanies ( who live on the ground-realities) have to live here, we cannot kill everyone who have different ideology, as an ideology cannot be killed, evening most powerfull roman empire was not able to kill the ideology of christianity... no one has ever able to kill an ideology with power and weapons ( if any, please let me know) ideology can be cured with different ideology.. thats it.. no weapons can be used to eliminate it. I don't know why people say that kill every Taliban.. why don't they say they cure them... may be it is because thats the tactic Protestants adpoted against Catholics, but even that never paid...

The enemies of Pakistan want to drive Pakistan into a civil war, where the country shall be divided amoung the moderates and talibans, moderates led by somebody like Altaf Hussain and some other feudals, and talibans led by some fanatics... this civil war will bring no-good to Pakistan...

The Taliban Terrorists take refuge in Pakistan.

Why do these so called freedom fighters hide in Pakistan? Why don't they live among the people in Afghanistan like the Iraqi Insurgents who enjoyed broad support from the people and did not run away into Syria whenever American troops were send in there.

Since neither they are freedom fighters but a bunch of brainwashed animals send in from Pakistan to kill innocent people and blow people up.

As for American Technology....their drone attacks have been deadly. Many top Al Qaeda and Taliban animals have been killed. Much to your discomfort I am sure.

When 6,000 Pakistanis have been killed in Terrorist attacks. When Pakistan does not control the NWFP and Tribal Areas. When they openly attack our troops. Whose war is it but not Pakistan?

Are you really this naive?

The solution is you give them a final ultimatum. Lay down your arms, respect the law and constitution of Pakistan, do not impose your will on others and stop hosting foreign terrorists and stop all attacks in Afghanistan. If you don't then you will suffer the consequences.

How has Pakistan the capacity to deal with the Taliban?

They get their ass kicked each time they send in troops to fight them. They fled in disgrace from Tribal Areas and now they have re-treated from Swat.

Try the Nazis, Facists, Imperialists during World War II. The difference between the ideology is that it is a minority trying to impose its will on others. NWFP and Swat don't want this kind of extremist islamic laws. Thats why the Taliban always need arms to hold people hostage because they and their lifestyle is not welcome.

Pakistan does not need outside help to be driven into a civil war. Pakistan created this monster called the Taliban and used it to take over Afghanistan and then funneled them into Kashmir.

Now it is something they can't control and Pakistan is paying the price.

Instead of blaming Hindus, Jews, Christians, the West, Israel, Mossad, CIA, Pakistanis should do some soul searching and come to terms with how they are progressing as a nation.

Re: How to Clear the Mess

These are not freedom fighters, the freedom fighters are those who are kicking the white asses of American Army in US.. these are agents/thugs/criminals ( mangal bagh is well known for his smuggling activities) gangs, who are equipped with the latest weapons and trained by the Indian and American , later sent to Pakistan, to diversify the media's attention from what is happening in Afghanistan...

Tell me why the So-Called American and NATO forces are not able to claim any victory against taliban and why are they not speaking about it.. why are they not allowing Pakistani forces to seal the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan...

Pakistani forces can kick their asses, and unlike Americans they can controll the Afghan region.. but these Talibs are well equipped with western weapons and other technology.. and US-Army just firing barrage of words, no army, including Pakistan army will be able to contain them... it is about time that these Good for Nothing and beaten so many time at almost all the fronts American ARMY leaves Afghanistan and let the Professional deals with it.. I can assure you if this happens, with in a year time of Last American soldier living Afghanistan, there wil be peace and there will be no threat of Talibans or what so ever..

So you are saying that we should start world war III?? yes u can ask it as you are sitting in USA... but let me tell you, if the WWIII started this time, USA may become the war zone as well...

You need to check the ground realities, but guys like you heaviling depend on the media to get their information.. thats why no point in arguing with you

He is from Pakistani parents, which is what I said (Pakistani descent). Here is the wiki reference on KSM.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is usually reported to have been born in Kuwait to parents from Baluchistan in Pakistan.[1]](Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - Wikipedia) He spent some of his formative years in Kuwait, just like his nephew, Ramzi Yousef (three years his junior). He joined the Muslim Brotherhood at age 16. He returned to Pakistan soon after

You have any comments on Imran propogating the mis-information about CIA training Al Qaeda? His mentor Hamid Gul was deeply invloved with CIA and Afghan war, he must have told him.

The hell are you talking about?

They have asked Pakistan to seal the borders…its just that each time the incompetent Pakistani Army is send there they get attacked and driven back by the Taliban Nazis. And surrender in mass

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

So according to your brilliant :rotfl: analysis…US is secretly funding and training Taliban to attack Pakistan…

Please tell me more

Right :rotfl:

World War 3? Who is talking about World War 3? and how exactly will USA become a war zone. They wont give you a visa to come here.

Since I don’t have Cable. I do my research independently. I don’t rely on a mullah with a loudspeaker for my information unlike you.

Well, My fellow Pakistani and Western Pakistani brothers and sisters, everyone here seems to be acting like as an Armchair General or more than that, giving suggestions by suggestion, criticising and criticising, Imran Khan is this and that, Zardari is this and that, Jamiat Islami is this MQM is that, Talibans are this and that. The Pakistani Govt. needs to do this and that. Are there going to be an end to this childish and non-constructive conversations?
A biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig NO, as I don't see it.

I am very much sure, NONE of us here in this very forum have ever been to Swat, Bajaur, FATA or Buner most recently or during the time of intense conflicts and NONE of us even ain't got a clue, what would be the condition and feelings of those people who live there and facing evreything and so forth, NONE of us even showing sympathies for those people and applause for their courage. NONE of us.

NONE of us have ever seen or met Taliban with our own bared eyes. We have blindly believed, whatever media has injected into our minds and without even know whether its a truth or a lie, without even thinking or realizing about the real situation, we suddenly start acting like smart, active and patriotic Pakistanis.
All crap and BS.

The real question is, what we really need to ask ourselves; what we, as a youth really need to do right now for Pakistan? We simply can't compromise on this worldly attractions which has kept us astray from all these things, which in a sense is very easy to analyse sitting in front of the PC and browsing here and there, type in our BS stories and comments in different forums without even know or a clue about the reality.

On the grounds we are nothing, we all are a bunch of cowards, useless and selfish, we only think about ourselves and for ourselves and we aren't doing anything for Pakistan, for its soveriegnity, for its pride nothing at all. Think and ask yourself one simple question, What I am doing for Pakistan right now, right at this moment or what I am going to do for Pakistan, for my Pakistan?

I know most of Western Pakistani here wouldn't agree with me but Islam is the only and prime solution of a United Pakistan, get rid of the borders of NWFP, Punjab, Baluchistan and Sindh out of the country and call it only Pakistan, a single Pakistan, which could make us all united under the flag of Islam and to fight our common enemy, the enemy of Islam and Pakistan, be it anyone, be it Taliban.

Re: How to Clear the Mess

^First we have to kill all talibs

take away provinces but you will still need some sort of administrative units. I mean even in the days of the khulfa e rashideen there were administrative units with their own governers.

All i Know, no one is Kuwait is true son of Soil, either they are from Iran, Sub-Continent, Saudi or Iraq, so in this scenario, none of the Kuwaiti Terrorist will be ever blamed as Kuwaiti, he can of either descent.

I still remember how strongly Kuwaiti Govt. acted and denounced his nationality, mind you, no one can get Kuwait Nationality that easy, infact it is near to impossible to have one… one have to prove that either they and their parents use to live in this piece of land well before 1950… anyway thats separate debate, just to clear the doubt…

CIA is harbouring terrorists of all nature and all kinds in almost all parts of the world. They move them at their will, same us some chess-player moves its pawn over the chess board. CIA, did trained and equiped the freedom-fighters in 80s, i.e. to fight againt Communist USSR. so even if there is not traces that Al-Qaida is a subsidiary of CIA, still the "employees’ of Al-Qaeda are trained by CIA…

above all, Imran is not prophet from Allah that what ever he says cannot be challenged or so, he is normal human being, he can make mistakes and he can be wrong…

[quote=“mercenary2k”]

The hell are you talking about?

[quote=“mercenary2k”]

I suggest u get some cable now, and get some news channels… only then you will know what the hell iam talking about.. BTW, i was surfing the net for some historic documents and came along some news stories of VIETNAM war, where USA use to say that we are winning until they were totally kicked out of their…

its other way around, Pakistan asked NATO & ur BRAVE US SOLDIERS to seal the border, and they strongly refused, as their INDIAN friends might get effected from it.. so much for ur crapy research..

Please refute it by some substance, u and ur likes of desi wanna-be-goras some time act more dumb than the goras…

Ya i can see the results of ur research few examples are, according to you, Pakistan was founded in 1948, ZIA named Pakistan as Islamic Republic and America has the bravest Army… BTW who got its ass kicked in all the wars… be it In Somalia, be it in VIETNAM, be it in CUBA … but u wanna be gora kind of desis doing your crapy research, with wishfull thinking, and liability to Pakistan, can never ever get their facts straight, unless these goras will kick you out or send u to the concentration camps like they sent Japanese in WW2…

Most of the people in this forum haven't been to Pakistan, let alone SWAT, FATA or other northern areas. Their source of information is just few friends in the club or tube or some news channel like FOX... nothing more they know about it and trouble is, over the years, with their little knowledge of Pakistan, they consider themselves authority over Pakistan.

I agree with you when you say that Islam is the only way forward for the United Pakistan, the country was founded on Islam and will not sustain if these very foundations are removed. This is what most of desis-wanna-be-goras are up too, they live in complex and just to be in the good books of goras, they bash Pakistan and Pakistanies...

I have no problem with Taliban if they can deliver the true version of Islam, i will stand firm with every person who will preach the right version of Islam, but the taliban i have seen ( specially in the FATA and SWAT area) are something different, i haven't lived with them, but have observed them closely and i must say, they have many flaws in them no way one can call them Mujahid-e-Islam as Islam is not limited to the barber shops and women education, but more importantly their weapons are not from the right sources, it is either supplied by the Enemies of Pakistan or been bought by using money collected by unlawful and sinful means... Secondly, and most importantly, no way in Islam the weakening of the states Army is allowed... When Imam Hassan Askari ( i guess this is the name, but correct me if iam wrong) launched he campaign against the Caliph of the time, he asked Imam Abu-Hanifa to help him, Imam Abu-Hanifa replied, and be that reply the lesson for us, ( Al-though iam not follower of any of the Imam) he said, no one should be launching campaigns against the Muslims Army, unless and untill he have power to defeat them, otherwise, he may end up creating more divisions between the muslims, history is their to tell us how right he was...

Westerns are using the same tactics they used against the Othoman Empire in WW1, they equipped and trained rigid Arab of Central Arabia to helped them to start a civil-war in the Empire and the dumb arabs fell for it and now they are all obedient slaves of west... Surprisingly to many, these Arabs, mixed them with Abdul Wahab's followers, and gave the movement an Islamic cover...

Same is the case with Talibans, these are thugs and nothing more than that, Take Mangal Bagh for example this guy is well-known smuggler of the area, his smuggling include drugs and every other thing one can imagine, now he is acting as the leader of Lashkar-e-Islam, how pathetic can it get...

I have no problem with Talibanic Ideology, as i know, i can beat them with mine, but i do have problems when their leaders are baitul mehsood, mangal bagh or fazalullah or an illiterate ( Jahil) like Sufi Muhammad...

I agree and just to add more, there are The Good, The Bad and The Ugly talibans. lol

The Good one are in Afghanistan fighting for their freedom against the western invasion by doing jihad. e.g. Mullah Omar and Haqqani

The Bad one are the ones, which have been brought from Afghanistan into Pakistan and are responsible for the current situations, like Mehsud and;

The Ugly one are the ones calling themselves Pakistanis and are in hand with the Bad taliban. e.g. Fazlullah

Mangal Bagh has got nothing to do with any of the above, he has his its own agenda to bring peace to those places but his commitment is not an Islamic one instead he do things his own way and doesn't fight against Pak Army or Forces or the soveriegnity of Pakistan.

No need. I am too busy at work to spend time watching TV.

US won every single battle in Vietnam. They lost the war because of the incompetence of South Vietnamese Army and the lack of support from US population. I know you won't believe this....because you will continue to leech onto your misguided views.

They can't seal the borders because they don't have enough troops. Since the terrorists eminate from Pakistan, it is Pakistan's responsibility to take them out. As for being India's friend...this is the textbook line of attack of any Paki who is challenged from their traditional views which have been embedded in them since childhood.

no comment to a stupid statement like that

Again no challenge. You havent done any research. As for 1948 thats when the constitution was rectified by the supreme court of pakistan.

you really dont know anything do you.....

as for wars....lets see....

US Revolutionary War - US won
War of 1812 - US won
Barbary War - US won
US-Mexican War - US won
US-Spanish War - US won
US-Philippine War - US won
World War I - US won
World War II - US won
Korean War - US won
Vietnam War - US won every single battle but lost public support and could not reform the corrupt South Vietnamese government.

Cuba - Invaded by cuban exiles and not americans in bay of pigs

Somalia - US inflicted over 1,000 casualites on Somalis who butchered 24 Pakistani peacekeepers.

Need I continue.....

You need to do more research and stop spouting nonsese.......I am getting tired of correcting you each time.....