How quickly everyone forgets...

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One bad series and everyone is getting mad…Iv heard people calling for the heads of Woolmer, Afridi, Inzi , Akmal…the list goes on…Its one bad series…Its frustrating how everyone has lost faith in our players after one bad series…

Now a good opening pair is always a problem for Pakistan…but Pakistan have to persevere with something…unfortunately Shoaib Malik who is being groomed as an opener got injured…hes someone who can be a decent opener for Pakistan…Putting Akmal in was a ridiculous decision and that was poor management…now as for the second opener…why is everyone laying into Salman Butt so much…he did excellently against the Aussies in Australia which Pakistani openers dont tend to do and was impressive in our home series against England…Hes had a couple of bad series…Strauss and Trescothick have had bad runs but they stick to their opening pairs…even SAfrica have shown faith in Gibbs despite his poor performance…

Younis Khan has been brilliant…So has Yousuf and Inzi has had a bad series by his standards…but not a bad series…

Faisal Iqbal needs to be dropped…simple…bring Afridi back…again everyone forgets how good a batsmen hes been for us recently…i remember how annoyed veryone got when he announced his retirement and how excited everyone got when he came out of it…now look how quickly you turn on him…hes had a bad series and shown a lack of discipline with the bat…remember what he did to India and the West Indies…remember what he did to England in Pakistan…he warrants a spot in the team…

And Razzaq again…you dont drop him…hes a good bowler who is solid…not a matchwinner but a good fourth bowler and his batting is solid…do we forget how him and Akmal preserved the lower order…we have to maintain faith in players like him who have shown that they perform for us…

And Akmal at 8…before this series he was one of the worlds best keepers and was devloping into a top class batsman…now one bad series and your calling for a new keeper…how fickle are you…it ttok 30 innings till geraint jones got dropped…three bad matches and your calling for Akmals head…ridiculous…

Now bowling is where we have lacked in this series…And out three best pacemen have been out…England at least have had Harmison and Hoggard…Sami was largely dissapointing but had one good innings…Gul was useful but not penetrating…and Nazir was decent but lacked stamina…

Shoiab is a top opening bowler for us…he is a lot more accurate than Sami and a lot quicker…he would have loved that Harmison pitch…

Asif is much better than Gul or Nazir…look how he decimated England and Sri Lanka in particular…he would have been outstanding in this series but injuries occur…

Kaneria has had a dissapointing series but this is becuase he hasnt had the support…he hasnt had 3 good seamers bowling with him and he largely had to be on the defensive…you have Sami bowling gifts to the batsmen at one end…its hard for Kaneria at the other end…now imagine Shoiab at the other end then its a whole different ballgame…

We are a top class side…we slaughtered the Sri Lankans away before we came here and look at the sri lankans now…weve had a bad series…forgive our boys and look forward to the next series…and stop ringing the changes…solidity is the key…

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

bhai jano, meherbano, qadardano, cricket ke dewano:

Public's demand of looking into failures is geniune. We didn't lose just because some of our bowlers were injured. There are many more complaints against our captain, coach, selectors etc.

  1. Recall of Imran Farhat and then later of Taufeeq Umar. Now what brilliant mind would bring them back again and again without doing much to deserve a comeback only to show that they are failures: They have "potential"... yes, the invisible potential.

  2. Persisiting with Sami after umpteen failures. Its a shame that he has been playing for Pakistan for so many years but after these many years he hasn't learnt much. Umer Gul and Shahid Nazir have much less international experience than him but they performed much better. Why he keeps coming back? oh yes, the same invisible potential.

  3. Failure of our PCB/coach to groom new generation/group of bowlers/batsmen after so many failures. Seems like there is a merry-go-round-circus of failures.

I am sure people have more complaints :)

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

^^ well said

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

Good post Captain1. I am sick and tired of hearing the usual crap oh it's just one series and we won so and so bla bla bla. We had injuries we didn't have firepower boo hoo. We heard the same story after we lost the ODI series against India. Now you will say that is ODI cricket that is different but I am sure people here remember we lost that ODI series for the exact same reason: only 2 batsmen in the team could score.

The point is, do we wait till we lose TWO or THREE more series and THEN we start taking action and pressing that panic button? There is something called preventive measures and proactive solutions rather than hoping we'll do better next time. We should try to nip problems in the bud rather than having the typical passive attitude of it will go away on its own. Why do we have to wait and react to everything instead of solving problems on our own initiative?

This is was our first competitive series outside the subcontinent since we were thrashed in Australia. Our batting failed just as spectacularly there too. Where is the improvement? I know our next test series will be a home series against West Indies and Zimbabwe. We will make flat decks, and score 650+ and say all is well again.

The question is do we want to become another India? Just be happy with being a subcontinental pitch bully? I hope not.

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets…

We desperately need a Saeed Anwar :hayaa:

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

^not to worry, we have Salman Butt

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its a pity that asif didnt play..i think pakistan would have definite chance atleast in this test with asif playing.England would not have scored 300+ runs in their second innings.

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

There are many points we are missing when we lash out at players. It is not their fault we lost the series, it is PCB plain and simple. The problem is they knew Asif, Shoaib and Rana will not be ready for this series and our openers are not getting the job done. They persisted with playing mind games rather assembling group of players that can actually help. We can bash and lash on Salman Butt, Mohammad Sami and others but it would do no good. This is because we are not discussing the core issue. Did PCB know that after so many dismal performances of Salman, Imran and Taufeeq; they are ready to be openers? Should they take the opening lead? Answer is no. I am not going to criticize the bowlers because in my opinion they did their best. Chances were there but we kept on dropping it…our fielders let go of the game.

Moreover, the reason Pakistan had the resurgence after the defeat against Australia is that we played with passion and determination, which was a major no-show during this series.

Oval Test will define us; recently Ricky Pointing said that he is looking for revenge in up coming Ashes series against England. A good team remembers the defeat and plays for honor. We have been the extremely good for past two years and it is time Pakistan finally define them. Question will be whether we will be angry at the defeat or just take it as a rubber match. Oval Test will really show whether to push the panic button or not.

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets…

According to Wasim Bari, the PCB has done their job by giving the team management the best openers available in the country (Butt, Farhat, Hafeez, Taufeeq). Now it is the team management’s failure if they can’t utilize them. :hehe:

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

^^ is Wasim Bari not feeling well or something.
Out of millions & millions of people, thats what he found.

Whats about our A team or Under 19 Team.

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

^ Exactly my point. That's the story of PCB politics, if they spent all that time actually doing their job instead of blame displacement, then maybe these problems wouldn't be there in the first place.

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

Don,t worry ,win in the ODI series and every 1 will forget this series as well.

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

This series result is another blemish on Woolmer's career as Pakistan coach.

Although successive series victories against England and India at home and against SLA in SLA were sweet, people like Miandad would argue that Pakistan under Woolmer and Inzamam have failed in the two series that really mattered (0-3 humiliation in Australia in 2004, infact we have lost the last nine tests against them, and England may well go on to win this series 3-0). Even without injuries Pakistan might have struggled against a fully fit England in England. I don't expect Pakistan to win the test series in SA next year either. Even when the two W's were in prime form, we never won a test series in Australia and SA although we have done well in England in the past.

The only two sides who can beat SA in SA are Australia and England

What's more the fielding and running between the wickets (it's actually bad calling that's the problem) under Woolmer are as bad as ever.

So what's really changed under Woolmer and why so much hype about his coaching? The only series win that stands out is victory in SLA. We always expect Pakistan to do well at home. don't we?

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets…

Please check Pakistan’s home record in the past ten years and come back to me. We have been freakin’ horrible at home, including a test series loss against freakin’ Zimbabwe in 1997-98 (as far as I remember).

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

To the game

I appreciate what Woolmer has done for PAK cricket during the last three years. There is a unity and discipline in the team not seen before since the days of Imran Khan. I suppose the bottom line is that Pakistan will always remain a mercurial side capable of giving dazzling displays one day and collapsing like a pack of cards the very next.

I see little improvement in the following areas under Woolmer

  • The fielding (we are perhaps the worst fielding side in cricket) and the running between the wickets but then our fielding has always been poor and was n't exactly spectacular even under Imran Khan. You can't really teach someone how to dive etc. The players have to be willing themselves to learn and improve
  • The opening dilemma
  • The collapsability and fickle nature of our batting. I suppose the batting of all sides with the possible exception of Australia is fickle. England infact collapsed in the second innings in all three tests in Pakistan. They lost in Multan and Lahore and managed to escape with a draw at Faisalabad only because they had around 40 overs to negotiate. Our batting too was spineless at Old Trafford and in the second innings at Leeds (i.e it has failed in three of the six innings so far in this series). So the whole team management (not just Woolmer) needs to look into the reasons why we have a tendency to bat like that under pressure.
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Re: How quickly everyone forgets…

Sums up the Pakistani team. Although any follower of our team has to admit that we have been rather consistent in the past year or so (this freakin’ series excluded :slight_smile: ).

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^^ yeah, but last year, all the series were played at home

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets...

azhusain, you have made good points but are putting the blame on wrong person. If it was not for Woolmer, we would have not won series against England, India and SL. Woolmer comes in the field with a plan and his plans works. You have see the first and third Test against England to understand this, his strategy worked it is just that players did no executed the plan. Whose fault is this? Defiantly players, the way he has persisted with Butt, Farhat and Sami is remarkable, their career should have been over long time ago and because of PCB, they are still in the team, not because of Woolmer. Moreover, he has been working with Shoaib Malik like crazy and overshadowing Inzamam’s inadequacy as a captaincy day in and out. He has done a great job with what he has been giving. Also, remember that whenever we loose, he is the first one to induce calm, we all know what kind of emotional and passionate fans we are, and whenever there is a loss we love to push the panic button, Woolmer does not he always tries to work something out. PCB needs to do good job in giving him good players.

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets…

India, West Indies, and Sri Lanka might all be “home” for you, but Inzi doesn’t live in any of these countries. Really.

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Re: How quickly everyone forgets…

By Rashid Latif
Former Pakistan captain

Pakistan’s series in England has been an eye-opener for the tourists and I think in some ways they have shown their true colours.

They have played very good cricket in the last couple of years and had risen to second in the Test rankings.

Inzamam and Woolmer came in for criticism after losing the series

But all the matches they have won have been in the subcontinent in conditions they are used to.

But when they have played in alien conditions, in Australia, the ICC Champions Trophy here in England or the current Test series, they have struggled.

This is a crucial time for the Pakistan team and they will be desperate to win the final Test match at The Oval.

Inzamam-ul-Haq has come in for criticism after his side lost the series.

He has done a great job for Pakistan in the last 15 years and has also been a very good captain.

Here, however, he has looked shaky against the fast bowlers.

He should have led from the front in the last Test match. He should bat at number three or four because he is the captain. I think he bats too far down the order.

He is such a great player, I’m sure he will bounce back in the final Test or the one-day series. I hope his form does improve because we don’t want to lose him before the World Cup.

I don’t think Pakistan should risk Shoaib Akhtar - after six months out, a five-day game will be too much for him

I went to see Pakistan play West Indies A at Shenley last weekend and noticed a number of the Pakistan Cricket Board hierarchy are part of the touring party.

I don’t think they should be here.

The players can’t relax because the chairman is here with them and I think that is having a detrimental effect.

All the chopping and changing has not helped Pakistan’s cause either.

Some of it has been enforced because of injuries but the coach Bob Woolmer has also tinkered with the side, especially the opening batsmen.

At The Oval he should leave Salman Butt and Taufeeq Umar to open for a second successive match. Pakistan need stability.

Strauss has captained England’s under-strength team well
I don’t think Pakistan should risk Shoaib Akhtar either. After six months out, a five-day game will be too much for him.

He should play in the one-day series but not at The Oval.

I do wish they had called up Mushtaq Ahmed because the spinner knows English conditions well and has been great for Sussex.

He would have boosted fellow spinner Danish Kaneria’s confidence too. On his day, Danish is a better turner of the ball than Monty Panesar but he has been well below par in this series.

I have been really impressed with England because, despite injuries, they have played well together as a team - they are united.

They bounced back after losing the one-day series 5-0 to Sri Lanka.

They don’t have their big star names but they are playing well together and Andrew Strauss has been great as captain.

Guess who ???