Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Honestly tell me - if a christian in your area started acting high and mighty, claiming to be the descendents of the British rulers - some of you might find it amusing others will realise its stupid. Thats how I feel.
i dont claim to be descendent of ghauri of ghaznavi and even if i was i wud NOT defend them unconditionally .....
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
there are people leaving islam because of the way some powerful muslims are oppressing the weak in muslim countries , and sadly our rulers are doing nothing to stop that ....for condemning such people to death is not only unfair but the cause of further rebellions. Since we are ourselves not giving them the protection and justice we are obligated to give them in the first place.
but to condemn those who willingly left islam then do blasphamey against prophet the punishment is the same for any traitor in any country these are the likes of rushdie, manji and hirsi ali
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
^ so the problem is quite simple then isn't it. Just say those things are not islamic law, that saying 'non-muslims will burn in hell' is wrong and that is all there is to it.
First of all, the belief that unbelievers will be punished in the afterlife is hardly unique to any one religion. Christians believe that anyone who does not accept Christ as their lord and savior will burn in hell for all eternity. Sikhs believe that those who didn't accept the Gurus will be tortured after death..
In any case, there's plenty in the Quran to contradict the idea that all non-Muslims go to hell...
*"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."
*(2:62)
"On that Day [The Day of Judgment] will men proceed in companies sorted out, to be shown the deeds that they (had done). *
*Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!
And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it."
(99:6-8)
Secondly I am very glad to hear you say islamic law is not static and is a matter of debate and interpretation.
That's nothing new. The nature of Islamic law has been debated for the past 1,400 years.
Given that and the severity of many interpretations shouldn't muslims be against wanting Sharia't to be injected into nation's law?
Many are. Many others believe in the enforcement of moderate interpretations.
People see what they want to...in this case, you seem to have a preconceived notion of Islam as a backwards, evil religion, and Muslims as fanatics...so that's what you choose to see in everything.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Das R: your views are that of a moderate - for that I respect you. Beyond being a muslim, you are a human first & formost.
But as a muslim you do not have to justify each & every evil deed done by muslims in the past nor can you claim the glory of different countries, just because they happen to be muslim.
I do not see the Christians justifying the holocast or Hitlers barbaric ways, OR Christians in India, acting high & mighty becuase Christian America is a super power??.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
[quote]
Das R: your views are that of a moderate - for that I respect you. Beyond being a muslim, you are a human first & formost.
and I respect you for being objective and open minded
[quote]
But as a muslim you do not have to justify each & every evil deed done by muslims in the past nor can you claim the glory of different countries, just because they happen to be muslim.
[/quote]
absolutely not if u see my earlier posts in this thread I categorically said that what the muslim kings did based on their own judgement is not a part of islamic law and i dont feel obligated to either defend it or justify it ...i think i made myself very clear on that part
But criticism shud be uniform what stircasy is doing is EXACTLy what muslims do wrt to isreal when isrealis kill one palestinian that is attack against all muslims when egyptians unjustly kill a dozen that barely makes the headlines
, stircasey is seeing only oppression that was done by muslim kings and pretending all india was one big happy hindu family before muslims came.Such onesided interpretation of history is merely propoganda
btw i dont think i will be called a moderate by most people here , I try to follow a very fundamantelistic interpretation of islam ...because that islam is not of wife beaters , xenophobic ,flag burning lunatics as is commonly thought.A truely fundamentalistic muslim is just as careful about not oppressing the orphans, providing protection to religious minorities and keeping pledges as he is about waging war , banning alcohol/ music and lashing the fornicators
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
I gave you contra on all the Hindu Kings you mentioned, but you ignored it.
Akbhar was very much a Muslim King. Even If he tried to interpretate too much into his faith, doesnt make him non-muslim.
By your interpretation any hindu who denounces and rejects cast system is automatically non-hindu?! Right?!
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
^ what contra? bs. Akbar rejected islam and created a new religion
we're talking about how islam was forced spread in India. if you want to discuss merits and demerits of casteism sure, but elsewhere.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
i dont claim to be descendent of ghauri of ghaznavi and even if i was i wud NOT defend them unconditionally .....
they helped spread Islam in the subcontinent and in my eyes were the most famous personalities of the sub-continent after allama Iqbal and Quaid. Hats off to them. As I said earlier, Islam is the only true religion- so for people who had to little bit of violence in order to spread it were justified to supress the resistance. My family helped in our ancestral village converted 1000s of Malhotras, Khannas, Kapoors, Dhillon etc.s who were Hindus at some point and they still thank us to this day Alhamdullilah :) One day Muslims will outnumber every other religion
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
they helped spread Islam in the subcontinent and in my eyes were the most famous personalities of the sub-continent after allama Iqbal and Quaid. Hats off to them. As I said earlier, Islam is the only true religion- so for people who had to little bit of violence in order to spread it were justified to supress the resistance. My family helped in our ancestral village converted 1000s of Malhotras, Khannas, Kapoors, Dhillon etc.s who were Hindus at some point and they still thank us to this day Alhamdullilah :) One day Muslims will outnumber every other religion
Good - finally somebody with the guts to admit that islam was spread by force sword and violence. So much for the 'peaceful' religion!
As to your family helping to convert 1000s, don't worry, everybody has some black sheep in the family!
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
^ what contra? bs. Akbar rejected islam and created a new religion .
Not true. He started a series of populist gestures to placate the public, at the risk of alienating himself from his coreligionists. In the end, however, it is said that he rejected his social experiments and re-affirmed traditionalist Islam.
And quite frankly, I don't know what people see in this guy...he was a sadist. He used to take children at birth, and perform social deprivation experiments on them until they grew up...sick.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
[QUOTE]
A truely fundamentalistic muslim is just as careful about not oppressing the orphans, providing protection to religious minorities and keeping pledges as he is about waging war , banning alcohol/ music and lashing the fornicators
[/QUOTE]
So this guy is "moderate", huh? How bad are the extemists.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Not true. He started a series of populist gestures to placate the public, at the risk of alienating himself from his coreligionists. In the end, however, it is said that he rejected his social experiments and re-affirmed traditionalist Islam.
And quite frankly, I don't know what people see in this guy...he was a sadist. He used to take children at birth, and perform social deprivation experiments on them until they grew up...sick.
Most of the kings were sick. Power corrupts. But he was better than the likes of shah jahan who had sex with his own daughter.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
they helped spread Islam in the subcontinent and in my eyes were the most famous personalities of the sub-continent after allama Iqbal and Quaid. Hats off to them. As I said earlier, Islam is the only true religion-** so for people who had to little bit of violence in order to spread it were justified to supress the resistance**. My family helped in our ancestral village converted 1000s of Malhotras, Khannas, Kapoors, Dhillon etc.s who were Hindus at some point and they still thank us to this day Alhamdullilah :) One day Muslims will outnumber every other religion
bold part-only true if u are practising what u r preaching ...these guys were nowhere close to being ideal muslims ...infact they fought each other just as violently as they fought the hindus
these wars had little relgious motivations at the same time turks and muslim arabs and uzbegs and persians were all involved with infighting which was not based on religious principles ...similar is the case of infighting between hindu rajas.That being said obviously there were a great many common muslims who fought hindus to banish polytheism and truely estanlish the faith and not their kingship those are the true heroes.remember actions are judged by intentions
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
[QUOTE]
That being said obviously there were a great many common muslims who fought hindus to banish polytheism and truely estanlish the faith and not their kingship those are the true heroes
[/QUOTE]
Sick.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
^ what contra? bs. Akbar rejected islam and created a new religion
we're talking about how islam was forced spread in India. if you want to discuss merits and demerits of casteism sure, but elsewhere.
Please provide me a book, a reference, a link a, an article, where It is historically proven that Akhbar rejected Islam.
I'm all "ears".
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Ummm, as for an atheist (as you claim to be one) you shouldnt be much bothered about the perfect religion. Should you?!
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Ummm, as for an atheist (as you claim to be one) you shouldnt be much bothered about the perfect religion. Should you?!
You think atheists are not bothered about what happens fellow humans? All we care about is partying?
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
You think atheists are not bothered about what happens fellow humans? All we care about is partying?
Most atheists I know rather agree on partying than discussing on something they have given up years back. And I mean atheists.
Re: How Islam Spread [split: UN Condemns the Dutch Film]
Most atheists I know rather agree on partying than discussing on something they have given up years back. And I mean atheists.
Well now you know a different type of atheist.