how is divorce law fair in islam

for eg…yes if woman initiates, she gives back haq merh, if guy does it she keeps it. hows this fair in situations whr the girl is forced to give khulla, and your taking away the security she has, or if the girl is having an affair or whatever and the guy wants to divrce her, he also loses out on the haq merh…is there no reasons for divorce given, so if a guy gives talaq and reasons are due to womans bad behaviour/adultery etc, and is proven, she has no right to the haq merh…

hope can understand what im saying.

thanks.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

Describe the situation when girl is forced to ask for khula? By whom?

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

Women don't give khula, they request it.

I didn't really understand the other part of the question.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

"request it"

no. you ask for it.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

Yeah, ask for it. You can put it that way.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

I have seen situations where women are sometimes forced for khula by greedy husbands/ILs who want the haq mehr back where husband disowns her,throws her out of home and then doesnt go through talaaq route and she has no way out to get rid of the marriage except for asking for khula

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

UFFFFF...

yes if the girl is forced to give it like the example above. where husband treats her badly, just so she will go to court for khulla for haq merh to be given back......or the guy tells her he wont ever divorce her, she can rot.....she can get khulla if she wants....but reason being is for the haqmerh......so whats islam sayyon this..

please stick to topic.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

Islamic law regarding divorce is fair and balanced. To appreciate that, you have to understand concept of marriage, divorce, and mahr in Islam. Without going in detail and keeping short, here is what I understand:

In Islam marriage is contract between husband and wife. Both can break the contract if they desire, with or without reason. For this contract husband pays (Mahr) and wife receives (Mahr). Mahr is paid to woman by man to acknowledge that the woman has agreed to provide company and pleasure to her husband (to the best of her ability).

Mahr: Belongs to wife and she can do whatever she likes. Mahr, gifts during marriage, day to day expenses towards her food and living, all is provided to wife by husband so that she gives herself and her company to him whenever he desires, and allow him to have first right over her kids. She keeps Mahr (and any gifts) regardless of divorce or Khula. But then, there are circumstances when she should return Mahr or part of it, to get khula (in divorce, she returns nothing).

Khula: A woman can ask Khula with reasonable genuine reason or without reasonable genuine reason.

If there is no reasonable genuine reason (for instance, she just wants divorce), she buys her freedom from marriage contract (take khula), and court would grant that. The maximum she pays for her freedom from marriage contract is Mahr. Husband could let her break the marriage contract (take khula) for even less (if they mutually agree) but the maximum husband can ask is Mahr.

If there is reasonable genuine reason, for instance, due to husband’s adultery, cruelty, abuses, insanity, imprisonment (long-term), desertion, impotency, leaving Islam, etc ... she can ask for khula through court and can get it. Such Khula is treated as Talaaq (normal divorce) and she do not need to return mahr or anything (court would grant her Talaaq). Anyhow, since such demand of Khula can get contested in court, in most cases compromise is made where she might need to return Mahr or part of it to obtain Khula.

As for forced Khula what you mentioned, that is illegal in Islam and one cannot blame Islam for anything illegal.

Such arrangement is fair for husband because in exchange of some monetary cost, he gets an exclusive company in life (in form of wife) and also first right over kids (even after divorce or Khula, first right over kids are always his).

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

Very good post Sa1eem. One comment though regarding the bold above. I always thought that leaving Islam nullifies the Nikah, in which case a Talaq/Khula can not happen. What can happen though is that the person comes back in to the fold of Islam and a new Nikah can then be arranged. This would be different than Divorce where re-marrying is only possible through halala. And that too if the second nikah of the woman is not done with the intention of halala.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

When a husband say 3 times talaq to his wife does she still need khula papers?

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

is there a burdern of proof on the girl to prove abuse or whatever. and do u have references for above.

also what do you mean first right of kids are his, i thought mothers had first rights....

thankyou...

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

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Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

I dont think so.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

Obviously, if a girl wants khula on basis of excuses or allegations then she has to prove that in court. That is why i wrote that such divorces get contested and due to contest (where husband claims that allegations are wrong) compromises are made where girls may be required to pay mahr or part of it just to get Khula.

[quote]
If there is reasonable genuine reason ...
...
Anyhow, since such demand of Khula can get contested in court, in most cases compromise is made where she might need to return Mahr or part of it to obtain Khula.

[/quote]

If it was straight forward Khula, where girls pays her mahr and ends her marriage, that should not be problem, as such khula could not get contested. This is mentioned in well known hadith:

From Hadith (Bukhari): Khula without reason: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The wife of Thabit bin Qais bin Shammas came to the Prophet and said, "O Messenger of Allah! I do not blame Thabit for any defects in his character or his religious commitments, but I cannot endure to live with him ... or that I am afraid that I may become unthankful for Allah's Blessings. "On that, prophet (SAW) said (to her), 'Will you return his garden to him?". She said, "Yes." So she returned his garden to him and the Prophet told him to divorce her.

[Note: 'I am afraid I may become unthankful for Allah's Blessings' ... As she did not liked her husband (she could not endure him), she was unable to fulfil duties to her husband as what Allah wants wife to do (give him company and be available to him), hence she was afraid she may become unthankful for Allah's blessing]

Above hadith shows that a woman needs no genuine reason to ask for Khula as long as she is willing to return Mahr given to her. Obvious alternative would be asking for Khula having genuine reasons, and this would happen when she is unwilling to return Mahr (thus making Khula treated as Talaq), though when contested she might be required to pay Mahr or part of it (depending on proofs and judgment in court).

First right over kids means: Child belongs to husband if a woman was his wife when child was conceived.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

Good post but these red parts of your post need confirmation.

IMHO:

1- With leaving Islam, Nikah is annulled. She is free and she is na-mehram for the ex-husband. One earlier post by Jinx also mentioned that and you have not answered or missed it.

2- Man does not have first right in divorce or khula. Up to seven years (or more) woman still has right on the child custody depending upon which school one follows...unless she is considered not Islamically capable of keeping the child including but not limited to being non-muslim.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

^^^ also in reply to brother Jinx:

Marriage getting void due to change of religion: It does not happen in Islam that marriage gets void ‘by itself’ due to leaving or acceptance of Islam by any partner. Marriage in Islam is a ‘civil contract’ between two humans that stays valid in all circumstances, until one partner or another initiate divorce (Talaq or Khula), intentionally and willingly. Islam also recognises marriage contracts made in any law (religious or civil), as long as that contract is made intentionally and willingly (not forcefully).

Actually, I discussed the matter in detail some time back on the issue. http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/462156-is-it-true-2.html
Please read Post 30 and 31 of that thread:

[Post 30: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/462156-is-it-true-2.html#post7837460 … Post 31 is the one that follows].

You can check the argument and references presented (in post 30 and 31 of that thread), and then still you have question, we can discuss the issue.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

Who the child belongs ... from Quran: (In reply to brother Diwana and nadz123):

As far as I know, in all Islamic ‘shariah’, child belongs to father [he is guardian and after him his heir (child’s grandfather or uncle) is guardian]. Anyhow, I am referring to Quran on the matter and giving reason why that is the case.

Child born within marriage (wife is still in wedlock of father ... as there is no divorce involved):
Ayah 2:233 And the mothers should suckle their children for two whole years for him (father) who desires to make complete the time of suckling; and their maintenance and their clothing must be-- borne by the father according to usage; no soul shall have imposed upon it a duty but to the extent of its capacity; neither shall a mother be made to suffer harm on account of her child, nor a father on account of his child, and a similar duty (devolves) on the (father's) heir, but if both desire weaning by mutual consent and counsel, there is no blame on them, and if you wish to engage a wet-nurse for your children, there is no blame on you so long as you pay what you promised for according to usage; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah and know that Allah sees what you do.

As can be seen, since child belongs to father, it is his decision that who suckle the child. If father wants to, mother can suckle the child for two years. Father is required to bear the cost of mother while giving suckle (whatever she asks for suckle and father agrees). Anyhow, if father decides he can give child to foster-mother, though he should pay whatever agreed for giving suckle to child (there is some controversy about payment to mother for giving suckle to the child ... though I feel Ayah is clear).

Another thing to note in ayah is mentioning of people (father’s heir) who inherits the child (guardianship) if father dies (they would be grandfather or uncle of child), as, when they becomes guardian of child they should treat the mother of child in same way, and should give her preference over foster mother.

It is right of mother in Islam that she should give suckle for first two years and for that she can charge ‘father or legal guardian of child (hair of child’s father after his death)’. In such situation, mother should be given first option and should be paid reasonably for suckling. That means, if guardian of child are rich or can afford, and if mother is asking that she wants to suckle the child at reasonably cost, than she should not be deprived even if she is asking more than foster-mother].

Note: According to Hanafi mazahab, if mother is married to the father then there is no need for father to pay mother anything for suckling. Father only need to pay mother he divorced ... as mentioned in ayah 65:6. Anyhow, it is clear from ayah 2:233 that there is payment involved related to suckling (as the ayah is regarding suckling of a child), else normal food and clothing is right of wife anyhow, and there should have been no need to mention that, as mother of child in ayah is married to father of child. At the end of ayah 2:233 there is mention of payment (you pay what you promise), that some believe is payment to mother what father may have agreed with her for giving suckle to child before deciding to give the child to foster-mother, but then, that payment could be to foster mother, though it may not be such as one would have to pay foster mother on continuous basis, so there is little chance of not paying what one promised, and even if anybody do that (not pay what one has promised) then foster mother would just return the child.

If there is divorce between father and mother of child ... and child is born:
Ayah 65:6 Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their recompense: and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.

Above ayah is clear. That is, if a divorced woman who bore the child suckles the child of her and her ex-husband (father of child), then father should pay her just and reasonable. Though if she (mother of child) is asking too much that could put father in difficulty then he (father) can ask another woman (foster-mother) to suckle his child.

All above shows that child belongs to father and that is why mother can charge father of the child for suckling. Even if father dies, child (guardianship of child) belongs to ‘heir of child’s father’ (grandfather or uncle of child) as mentioned in ayah 2:233.

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

^^^ (additional proofs from Quran that child belong to father): Some Quranic Ayahs that shows that a child belong to his father.

Ayah 14:39 ... "Praise be to Allah, Who hath granted unto me in old age Isma'il and Isaac: for truly my Lord is He, the Hearer of Prayer!

In above ayah, Ibrahim (AS) is praising Allah for granting him sons in his old age. It is obvious that when Allah grant something to someone, that something belongs to that person.

Ayah 19:5 ... "Now I fear (what) my relatives (and colleagues) (will do) after me: but my wife is barren: so give me an heir as from Thyself,-

In above ayah, Zakariya (AS) asked Allah to give him an heir, thus it clearly means that if an heir is given by Allah, that heir belongs to Zakariya (AS).

Ayah 21:72 ... And We bestowed on him Isaac and, as an additional gift, (a grandson), Jacob, and We made righteous men of every one (of them).

Here Allah is telling that he bestowed Ishaq (AS) and Yaqub (AS) to Ibrahim (AS). It is obvious that when Allah bestowed something, that belongs to person he bestowed. Hence Ishaq (AS) and Yaqub (AS) belonged to Ibrahim (AS), also shows that not only children but even offspring of children belong to father.

Ayah 21:90 ... So We listened to him: and We granted him Yahya: We cured his wife's (Barrenness) for him. These (three) were ever quick in emulation in good works; they used to call on Us with love and reverence, and humble themselves before Us.

Here Allah is saying that he granted Yahya (AS) to Zakariya (AS). It is obvious that when Allah granted Yahya (AS) to Zakariya (AS), Yahya (AS) belong to Zakariya (AS).

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

so why is jannat at mothers feet.

and there is another hadith which i cant remember fully, but it mentions mother being moreimportant ( correct me if wrong) 3times over the father....

Re: how is divorce law fair in islam

^^^ No doubt, mothers’ right is more than fathers’ right on kids when it comes to devotion of kids ... and rewards from Allah for showing devotion, respect, obedience, and serving mother is higher too (compare to father). But father owns his kids just like a person owns his earnings and properties.