How has the recession affected you?

[samb]

Also, forgot to address this matter. You're right about the tighter spreads but the opportunities are still out there. What do you think of green tech and defense? Both sectors should be growth oriented in the near term.

Having the capital liquid is a challenge no doubt. Are you still thinking B-school? If so, try to see if you can get into to finance position with strong bonus potential. You're an intelligent guy who would do very well in a more entrepreneurial environment. At that point you can also have some additional funds year end to potentially scope out the equities markets.

Definitely keep in mind that the opportunities are out there, perhaps not as prevalent as before. Just get yourself ready with a plan and you should be all set :)

tbh, don't have an opinion on green tech or any sector for that matter. as a student of value investing, I'm strictly bottom up... don't believe in these macro views. or maybe I'm just masking my ignorance of sector-based knowledge. but as a cynic, I tend to be pretty skeptical any time ppl get particularly interested in few pockets of the market.

I'm currently in a position with one of them strong bonus potentials. but I'm not sure I believe in the work I do. I belong on the buy side and need to get a full time position where I only look at stocks. selling ideas to others or giving others reasons to trade is not my forte. I want to be locked in a room and left alone to just read stuff... don't ask me to go out with clients, etc. not good at it. don't like it.

still on the fence about bschool. I'll be a loser on ROI etc for sure. only upside could be getting a job on the buy side which is what I want.

[samb]

I'd love to claim that I had properly timed the market but that was not the case. There were two primary factors 1. My uncle's REIT, I invest with people that are sharp and I can trust 2. I saw the broader indicators leading towards an adjustment. Because of these circumstances, my annualized time series doesn't show any down years. I do respect Warren Buffet but recommend that you go straight to the source: The Intelligent Investor by Ben Graham.

Arbs are great vehicles but still too exotic for me. I try to keep my investments pretty simple and have not used any special algorithms for calibrating the returns - mostly because of the lack of time to manage them well. I actually started shifting to the property markets after seeing how well the REIT was doing. So far, the cash flows have been strong, and I have started debt repayment at an accelerated pace for the European properties (no tax advantages for me).

2010 should be an interesting year, I don't see a true recovery because the fundamentals are still off balance (including debt/exotics etc). Maybe I am cynical because of the day job, but I don't believe that the most efficient allocation of capital is occurring at this point.

"The Intelligent Investor" was the first book I bought when I started reading on stocks some years ago. it is still the best book on the subject. it makes so much sense especially if you're a cheapskate like me. doesn't take a long time to get the concept. though of course, it is far easier to understand the concept than implement it.

[farrah]

Re: How has the recession affected you?

^ errrrrr … isnt there something called pm-ing … unless you are willing to teach me the tricks of the trade and earn me a quarter million too! BORING!

[pak-one]

@samb

tbh, don't have an opinion on green tech or any sector for that matter. as a student of value investing, I'm strictly bottom up... don't believe in these macro views. or maybe I'm just masking my ignorance of sector-based knowledge. but as a cynic, I tend to be pretty skeptical any time ppl get particularly interested in few pockets of the market.

I'm currently in a position with one of them strong bonus potentials. but I'm not sure I believe in the work I do. I belong on the buy side and need to get a full time position where I only look at stocks. selling ideas to others or giving others reasons to trade is not my forte. I want to be locked in a room and left alone to just read stuff... don't ask me to go out with clients, etc. not good at it. don't like it.

still on the fence about bschool. I'll be a loser on ROI etc for sure. only upside could be getting a job on the buy side which is what I want.

Gotcha.

So you'd be a good fit in a research role: Just running analyses and issuing opinion. Should target bulge brackets.

ROI is critical for B-school. I am getting burnt out with the hours. I'm in line for VP, but honestly wouldn't mind exiting to PE. I am pretty much debating whether B-School would be a solid gap year option or not. I have really low views of an MBA degree, as you don't really need one succeed in Finance, but it's a nice year off with additional networking opps.

[samb]

@farrah

^ errrrrr … isnt there something called pm-ing … unless you are willing to teach me the tricks of the trade and earn me a quarter million too! BORING!

sorry, i’m not too good with computers.

yeah the trick of the trade is - send me a check and I’ll manage your money for you…

[pak-one]

@samb

"The Intelligent Investor" was the first book I bought when I started reading on stocks some years ago. it is still the best book on the subject. it makes so much sense especially if you're a cheapskate like me. doesn't take a long time to get the concept. though of course, it is far easier to understand the concept than implement it.

Great.

I recommend also buying the reader for it (only 300 pages :D). I don't think you can call yourself a cheapskate, just shrewd. The limitations with value investing are obvious: long range views and making sure that you avoid the market noise.

Have you read The Zurich Axioms?

[samb]

@pak-one

Gotcha.

So you'd be a good fit in a research role: Just running analyses and issuing opinion. Should target bulge brackets.

ROI is critical for B-school. I am getting burnt out with the hours. I'm in line for VP, but honestly wouldn't mind exiting to PE. I am pretty much debating whether B-School would be a solid gap year option or not. I have really low views of an MBA degree, as you don't really need one succeed in Finance, but it's a nice year off with additional networking opps.

the perfect job would've been prop trading... but research would also be good.

yeah, don't think you can learn much in an MBA unless you're sitting in Joel Greenblatt's class and he's telling you about his strategies. now that is well worth paying for. but listening to some PhD talking about theoretical marketing/strategy/MBA stuff would be useless imho.

[samb]

@pak-one

Have you read The Zurich Axioms?

haven’t read this one… any good?

the one book I wanna buy now is Michael Lewis’ “The Big Short”. read an excerpt of it here: Betting on the Blind Side | Business | Vanity Fair

blew me away… haven’t read such an insane article in a while. a while back I’d read a mention of some doctor dude who was managing a hedge fund… didn’t pay much attention to it cause it seemed like every jackass with a bloomberg was calling himself a hedge fund manager. turns out I should have paid attention to this guy. he is a bleeping genius.

[pak-one]

@samb

the perfect job would've been prop trading... but research would also be good.

yeah, don't think you can learn much in an MBA unless you're sitting in Joel Greenblatt's class and he's telling you about his strategies. now that is well worth paying for. but listening to some PhD talking about theoretical marketing/strategy/MBA stuff would be useless imho.

Bingo.

Although I see Glass-Steagall II on the horizon, I think the smarter ones will find a way to do "ok" in the new realities.

Not too many practitioners in the field. It's easy to make assertions in the ivory tower. Some of the Hedgies actually believe that an MBA is for the "slower kids" something I don't really agree with (career changers, exit ops, networks are all valid reasons) but the question is: Is it worth taking a 2 year 'vacation' while dropping $100K+ and losing out on the opp costs? For people like you and I, not as much (on pure numbers). Now if there is a long term coherent career strategy then it becomes a compelling option.

[pak-one]

@samb

haven’t read this one… any good?

the one book I wanna buy now is Michael Lewis’ “The Big Short”. read an excerpt of it here: Betting on the Blind Side | Business | Vanity Fair

blew me away… haven’t read such an insane article in a while. a while back I’d read a mention of some doctor dude who was managing a hedge fund… didn’t pay much attention to it cause it seemed like every jackass with a bloomberg was calling himself a hedge fund manager. turns out I should have paid attention to this guy. he is a bleeping genius.

The Axioms are great for practical advice. I recommend it because you seem to be fundamentals guy and fairly down to earth. It’s not technical at all and just sets up a certain mindset.

I like M. Lewis, I read Liars Poker a while back, it was enjoyable for the flight back from Indonesia. I am blown away with the article, this Dr. is a genius, and seems pretty laid back as well. I love reading about under the radar people like him, so definitely let me know if you come across any other articles/books.

[samb]

@pak-one

For people like you and I, not as much (on pure numbers). Now if there is a long term coherent career strategy then it becomes a compelling option.

well to be fair, you seem to be doing much better than me... but overall, I agree with you on the usefulness of an MBA for ppl who're already in finance - even if they're not in roles they are necessarily passionate about like me...

[quote]
The Axioms are great for practical advice. I recommend it because you seem to be fundamentals guy and fairly down to earth. It's not technical at all and just sets up a certain mindset.

I like M. Lewis, I read Liars Poker a while back, it was enjoyable for the flight back from Indonesia. I am blown away with the article, this Dr. is a genius, and seems pretty laid back as well. I love reading about under the radar people like him, so definitely let me know if you come across any other articles/books.
[/quote]

I'll check out Axioms. I'm a pure fundamentals guy. can't stand technicals. at work, I have to control my facial expressions when I hear ppl talk about head and shoulders, resistance, etc. argh...

I think Buffett said it best that he gave up on technical analysis when he looked at a chart and it said one thing to him and then, he turned it 90 degrees and it still said the same thing to him. love that story.

there's no sound logic behind technical analysis. value investing on the other hand makes perfect sense. though Buffett did say that ppl who get value investing get it in a minute and those who don't never get it. maybe one has to be a cheap bashtard to intuitively understand it. not difficult for me... I was born a cheapskate.

for recommendations... how about "Monkey Business"? but I think you might be familiar with that one. :D on a serious note, it's a very good read... very funny. really enjoyed it.

ps. mods, apologies for derailing the thread. feel free to split it and move to the relevant forum - if you think it appropriate.

[pak-one]

@samb

well to be fair, you seem to be doing much better than me... but overall, I agree with you on the usefulness of an MBA for ppl who're already in finance - even if they're not in roles they are necessarily passionate about like me...

Bro, you are light years ahead of people who don't even have the finance background. Remember, we are also in the information business. I think B-School could be a good way of networking over to the desired role - but that doesn't mean that you can't network your way into the right buyside opp.

@samb

I'll check out Axioms. I'm a pure fundamentals guy. can't stand technicals. at work, I have to control my facial expressions when I hear ppl talk about head and shoulders, resistance, etc. argh...

I think Buffett said it best that he gave up on technical analysis when he looked at a chart and it said one thing to him and then, he turned it 90 degrees and it still said the same thing to him. love that story.

there's no sound logic behind technical analysis. value investing on the other hand makes perfect sense. though Buffett did say that ppl who get value investing get it in a minute and those who don't never get it. maybe one has to be a cheap bashtard to intuitively understand it. not difficult for me... I was born a cheapskate.

for recommendations... how about "Monkey Business"? but I think you might be familiar with that one. :D on a serious note, it's a very good read... very funny. really enjoyed it.

ps. mods, apologies for derailing the thread. feel free to split it and move to the relevant forum - if you think it appropriate.

I agree on the fundamentals. I think the technicals can get a little kooky and you can't rely on them. Value investing definitely makes sense to be, but I wonder whether people like bob_chasm (where you AT?) find it appealing? I mean he made quarter mill just based on strong timing and execution. Now I don't want to speak for him, but I am guessing he is more hand on when it comes to S&T and is nimble enough to shift gears quickly and reap the profits. Same situation with your arbs, derivatives and other exotics. So, I think it's easy for me to agree that value investing is the way to go because it fits my lifestyle.

I'm a little familiar with the book :D One of the head monkeys gave it to me on my first day at work. It's pretty funny, but also highlights the disconnect that Bankers have with the rest of the world, it's pretty hard to know what's going on outside of the bubble when you're either at the office, traveling with the deal team, or sleeping.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: How has the recession affected you?

I'm using a lot more coupons, shopping only on sale, and doing a lot of cooking from home as oppose to eating out.