Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
All this is personal choice, simple as that.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
even ppl who grew up in the middle east and not the ‘west’ usually heads out again even if they move back to pakistan with their parents, so its not the western lifestyle.
and then one the topic of friends and family, once u are aborad for a long time, and especially hen most of yoru family is aborad too, your reasosn to move back become more limited, and a generation or two later, they become extremely limited.
but u hit the nail on the head, its personal choice. if ppl have reasons and motivation to do somthing they will do it against all odds or not do it even if it is easy
my dad left pak when he was in his 20s, lived abroad all his life, moved back to pak, scrapped the plans for a company he was setting up due to law and order situation, served as an advisor to the world bank and pakistani govt, worked as the CEO of a major company, and retired, and now wants to move back out of Pakistan, most of his siblings are abroad and all of us siblings are abroad too. he really has few reasons to stay, he is a fierce patriot but he has more reasosn to not live there now than to live there. Other members of my fmily who moved were there at the wrong time i guess, but after car jackings and kidnapping for ransom and all, they moved back out, and others saw their example and also moved back out.
In a way I feel very bad for my parents generation of people who moves abroad, they still had roots in pakistan they left for opportunity, with a goal to go back, and now their kids are abroad.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
How does 'moving back' apply to people who never moved out of Pakistan in the first place. There is a technical flaw here. I think this moving back patriotic sh!t is gonna die down in another 50 yrs.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
It had better get darn good.
There's enough money in that country to really change things around, if they want change.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
Thanks for all the replies.....
A nice selection of replies. I have a good job in England and am well settled as I was born here but I would still hapily go back to Pakistan. The thing that really stops me from going back is the law and order situation and future for my children.
Having said that the inner peace I find myself in when I am in pakistan cannot be found in England.
It's really a 50/50 situation for me between both countries
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
For me the most important thing is Security and second a good health care system.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
What things need to be improved on for you to move back where your parents came from?
Nothing. I am willing to go back anytime.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
If i get a chance i will not move back to PAkistan because of my children.
I know its very challenging to brought up children here but its not that hard as its in Pakistan also,especially after musharraf is here.Islamic schools are here far more better than pak mudrassas and their education standards are very good.
And there are many reasons like law and order situation is very bad.
There is no value of life their .DOctors will let u die but they will not cure until u have money in ur hands.
Every one is very selfish in pakistan withour "rishwat"u cannot do anything.
SO i prefer to stay here but in any circumstances if i have to move i can survive their.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
Who is going to fix these problems? ^^ ...if not educated peoples
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
I know but i saw many people educated ones changing because of money.Its only pakistan system that has so many loop holes in it people can escape easily.Here the only good thing is the system that people cannot do much wrong.I know in UsA their are lot of fraudz here too but still u are bound because of system. But i told u that if in some circumstances we have to move we can live their.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
Almost all good posts.
First of all live where ever you will be happy. Other considerations in my opinion are;
1. Where your family is. I have lived in the USA for last 22 years. I came here when I was only 18. Everyone in my family now lives in Pakistan. I feel extremely lonely so I will be moving also.
2. If you want to have your kids learn the language and culture of the country you are from. It may not be very important for some people. For me it is.
3. Move if you have the financial means to maintain a life style you and your family are accustomed to. For example, if there is no light then should have generators to run your ACs.
My family followed these few rules and has been very happy in Karachi for last 12 years. We had agricultural lands in Sindh which we never sold. They were on contact all this time we were in USA. My brothers went back and are running our farms. They all are citizens of the US and come here every year for summer. Even one of my sisters in law is an American lady born in CA. She is very happy in Pakistan and does not want to move back. However, they have plans for their kids to finish college in Pakistan and go for Master’s in the States.
In the end, if you think you will be happy in Pakistan then move. Don't let, electric, gas, water, rishwat ,etc etc deter you. You can't fix all the problems of Pakistan or wait until they are fixed. Just go ahead and manage these problems if you can. If you are successful then great otherwise this "heaven" that is called the western world still be here. You can still get a mortgage at 20% down and a car for 10% down. Regular jobs are also readily available to start all over. At least you won't regret that you never tried.
Good luck!
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
many of the things mentioned here as problems I think I'd handle well. Like intermittent electric or water, "daily" living types of inconveniences, not being able to get the types of groceries that i'm used to. These, to me, are rather small matters.
I do think I'd like life over there (although I've been told that I have rose-colored glasses on)...but the things that worry me are
1. i was born and raised till age 12 as a christian and although I am learning about Islaam, I can claim no real religion. This can make me (and therefore prob my boys) a target over there.
2. corruption in many aspects of life ie, what schools you get into, what jobs you get, how much you are hassled, even finding household help.
3. lack of really first rate hospitals and docs. need I say more?
4. no real facilities at all for "special education" ie., my eldest son is on the autism spectrum. Over there, he would never receive the special education classes that are keeping him learning the same things that others his age are learning because of the specialized educational program that is available to him here.
If it were not for these things, I'd not hesitate to move over. Life over there seems to me to be so much slower-paced and family oriented. White collar/professional husbands are usually able to provide for maid and sometimes a cook too. It just seems like a really nice life if you can make a good living - except for the things I mention above which just squash it for us.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
Fraudia,
This is exactly what I said what are you saying that people can not move back because their kids do not want to go back and have no attachment like you.
Law and Order is an excuse for not to go back. Is the situation in Chicago better then Karachi ??? I can tell you that what state people are in after 9/11 and 7/7. I saw abuse and remarks by street kids and people in US and UK. Even my friends who are born abroad are ready to move if something happens and I can sense their fears.
I have seen so called british and US citizens like you who live in a close circle to keep their values, tradition and culture and never mix with other then Desi's. The are being blamed for not becoming the part of society.
Washing Dishes has nothing to do, but the fact is the same work you can not do in your home country, you are forced for earing your living. Do you not hear about boat people how many of them are drowned, jailed, killed and deported every year. Just beacuse of money. The lucky ones who manage to stay by hideing or through paper marriage or went there as skilled labour, first they earn to pay for their debt and then their kids who are born their refuse to go back with to their home country . Isn't it sad.
These are facts unless you are living in another world. Ask yourself and your friends who are born their and their parents that if another 9/11 or 7/7 happens then where they would like to go and you will get the answer.
The situation in Pakistn is not good according to European/American standard, but when it will reach to European/American standard then why One wants to go back. For the same mechnical life, Buying home on mortgage, car on lease and running arround to pay the installments. Although it started happening in big cities.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
true, its a flawed point.
the stuff may die down for the kids of gen 1 immigrants, and more than likely for gen 3, but there will always be more immigrants arriving and they would be dealing with similar questions.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
not always true. it takes effort on parents part, but you can teach language and culture and all that. ask anyone from GS who has met me. I am more Pakistani than many pakistanis in Pakistan when it comes to language and all.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
Agree with fraudia
I myself am teaching Zafeerah better urdu and she is clear speaking urdu and she doesn't have any problems.It takes a bit extra effort but its not impossible.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
Bookworm nay farmaya
*This is exactly what I said what are you saying that people can not move back because their kids do not want to go back and have no attachment like you. *
my parents did move back, and had a successful career and all there. it was diff for them
*Law and Order is an excuse for not to go back. Is the situation in Chicago better then Karachi ??? *
yes, significantly better.
as far as excuses, I dont have to give excuses to not go back. I have a preference. i decided to not even move back to UK let alone go all the way back to my parents home country. I decided to not live in cities I dont find appealing..and that is US. I decided to stay in US after education..and not even move to canada which was an option at the time. dont take people's preferences as excuses.
such factors as crime, and filth and corruption are worrisome, but even if they were fixed, I probably would not move back unless circumstances were such that I had to.
*I can tell you that what state people are in after 9/11 and 7/7. I saw abuse and remarks by street kids and people in US and UK. Even my friends who are born abroad are ready to move if something happens and I can sense their fears. *
yes so ppl may move unwillingly..not because all of a sudden Pakistan is a great place to live but that the places that they are in have become horrible places. It can happen. Desis did run out of Nigeria and Uganda when those places got ugly.
If and when it happens, sure many people may evaluate their options.
*I have seen so called british and US citizens like you who live in a close circle to keep their values, tradition and culture and never mix with other then Desi's. The are being blamed for not becoming the part of society. *
what makes you think that I dont mix with people other than desis. I think peope who only mix with desis to 'preserve' their culture and traditions are fools.
*Washing Dishes has nothing to do, but the fact is the same work you can not do in your home country, you are forced for earing your living. Do you not hear about boat people how many of them are drowned, jailed, killed and deported every year. Just beacuse of money. *
Yes so people leave pakistan to try and earn a living to support their family. Do you really think that most ppl who are washing dishes in hotels in canada would want to do that? or di u think thre was a problem with lack of opportunity in Pakistan that forced their hand.
*The lucky ones who manage to stay by hideing or through paper marriage or went there as skilled labour, first they earn to pay for their debt and then their kids who are born their refuse to go back with to their home country . Isn't it sad. *
How is it sad, if some mohajir tells his kids, oh lets leave islamabad or karahci, and move back to hyderabad or my ancestoral village, would people be so eager to move? It is a tough position for the first gen immigrant, but having an expectation that someone who was born and raised in canada or Italy and move to sialkot all of a sudden is a rather lame expectation.
ANd not everyone who has moved out of pak wants to go back, whether or not their kids want to move.
These are facts unless you are living in another world. Ask yourself and your friends who are born their and their parents that if another 9/11 or 7/7 happens then where they would like to go and you will get the answer.
again, a safety net, a place you can go to if things get horrible at the place you are currently at.
and lets not only focus on desis in the west. those who were in middle east who move back to pak, usually their kids go aborad, back to middle east for work in many cases because that is what they are used to.
*The situation in Pakistn is not good according to European/American standard, but when it will reach to European/American standard then why One wants to go back. *
Life in Pakistan is not good compared to many other standards, not just European and American standards. This sort of thinking stems from not having an insight about other countries and cities. half of latin america is a better place to live, former african colonies are a better place to live. we have dellusions of grandeur when it comes to our cities. They really are not all that.
For the same mechnical life, Buying home on mortgage, car on lease and running arround to pay the installments. Although it started happening in big cities.
That is baseless in many ways.
Lets ask the question...would someone living in Pakistan not have to buy their own house?
yes many ppl live with the parents, and many do the same thing here, do you not have to buy a car in Pakistan? yes you can take buses and public transport, but its the same in the west. US in general is bad in public transport department, except for major cities but there are ppl who dont have cars, by choice.
in Europe its even more people. My brother who went back to UK after his undergrad in US has not bought a car in 11 years. takes bus and tube everywhere, when he needs it he would rent a car.
how long can one live with parents? how many siblings at the same time, as the family starts growing. do they not need to move to their own place, and then do they nto have to worry about mortgage or rent? what happens when someone has to move to a different city for a job, they still have to deal with rent or mortgage.
People have the option to not move out and delay such expenses as well, but you know someone had to work hard to buy the house, even if that means that his children do not have to struggle early on.
In Pakistan entire generations are used to hadd harraamee, grown up, unemployed ppl in their 20s, 30s and 40's just leeching off from parents :) living at home..daddy pays the bills..
People here choose to get their own places, they dont have to, certainly not for second generation folks.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
My parents never spoke English with us at home, it was always Urdu or punjabi (adults spoke Punjabi w/ each other and urdu to kids..which kinda confused me lol). Even now, I’ll only speak Urdu with adults, even if they reply to me in English. It feels odd to talk to adults in any other language. I think it’s extremely important to speak only Urdu at home if you want your kids to know their culture. Kids pick up languages fast, they will learn English in school, from watching TV, from everything. at the very least thier parents shud speak the native language at home.
I know my urdu isn’t perfect (anyone whose heard me speak or write on here can vouch for htat 
) and it will never be as good as someone who was raised in Pakistan, was educated in Urdu language, and that the second I open my mouth, ppl can so obviously tell that i’ was raised here, but slowly i’m learning to let go of that and be comfortable with myself.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
I don't think it has to do with how good Pakistan or India will have to get for me to move, it's that I love America and I consider America to be home and I feel terribly homesick whenever I go to visit India for a few weeks.
I can't help it, I grew up here and everything is so familiar to me. I hope it stays the way it is and there isn't any drastic change in terms of how desis are treated here.
Re: How good does Pakistan have to get for you to move back?
Oh, yes it is!
There has to be a value proposition. A lot of us aren't patriots...we're comfortable. Make us more comfortable, and we'll move. And for a whack load of us, we would be more comfortable in a more conservative environment...but we want that AND the quality of life we have here.
Don't ask us to build such an environment...we don't know how. Rest assured, we won't be the ones to break anything, though...