Re: How does someone become an atheist?
why must a person that says they cannot see, feel, nor perceive 'X' in any manner, have to prove how/why they can't? they would have to though, if they're the one to come up with the idea of 'X' in the first place.
Wrong again. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
So when you claim His absence based on the fact, you cannot perceive Him, it is on you to prove your claim.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
could you explain who created the creator of the alleged chance? pushing things beyond the magic line is no answer pal. =)
Exactly my point. There is enough to reinforce having faith in God then not to. Or should I say those who live in self-denial of something which is so ominous.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
blind faith in supernatural beings is denial of reality, pal. =]
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
blind faith in supernatural beings is denial of reality, pal. =]
Actually its realizing that so much is real in this universe which eggs us to have blind faith that there really is a being known to us as God. Every real thing you know in life has a creator of some sort or does reality say it doesn't.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
blind faith in supernatural beings is denial of reality, pal. =]
Do you believe you have a Soul ?
Do you believe you have a "mind" ? (I am asking mind not brain)
^ If so, then you have a blind faith in supernatural beings which you have not seen.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
STP,
the soul, and consciousness arguments are absolutely non refutable and force atheism to at least acknolwedge the higher being.
some links to further authentic reading on atheism:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist.htm
Dushwari
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
soul and mind are nothing more than a believers limited interpretation of human conciousness.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
soul and mind are nothing more than a believers limited interpretation of human conciousness.
Proof?
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
soul and mind are nothing more than a believers limited interpretation of human conciousness.
How do you know if there is any thing called "human conciousness". Have you seen it ?
Blind faith ?
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
self-awareness would be the simplest way to define conciousness. have i seen conciousness? no i havent, but it manifests itself in everything from amoebas to humans.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
self-awareness would be the simplest way to define conciousness..
Well, than you have a blind faith on self-awareness because you have not seen it, did you ?
have i seen conciousness? no i havent, but it manifests itself in everything from amoebas to humans.
Exactly, in the same way, Allah expresses Himself through everything you see around you, only if you give time and think over them.
Examples.
It can't be a coincidence that "Every single" human on earth can not have a match interms of finger prints or retina of eye.
.......All people have 2 eyes, 1 nose, 2 ears and 1 mouth but amazingly so many varieties of faces that none of them exactly match to each other.....Coincidence ? NO, someone is planing and controling each and everything in an organized way.
And many many more examples
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
how is it blind faith if it is something which is observable?
as for the rest of your post, specious reasoning, lack of proper understanding of why people/on most organisms are unique, and why those that arent unique arent. these things are easily explained.
as i've always said, when people cannot explain something, they solve it by saying it is the work of a higher power.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
WHO is the one who feeds us when we are inside our mothers ??
WHO is the one who converts days into nights and nights into days ??
Look at the sky, why donot you find any mistake in it. WHO has made it to perfection ?? Try looking again, everytime your eyes would get tired but you would not find any mistake in it.
WHO is the one who gives different taste to fruits of different trees, although the same water is given to all trees ??
WHO is the one who is able to make infinitely different faces of infinitely many people although they all have the same 2 eyes, one nose,one mouth and two ears ??
WHO is the one who makes the finger prints and **retina of eye **of all the humans different from each other ???
WHO is the one who feeds the ants under the stones ???
Even a single stone cannot move from its place on its own, how is the whole universe controlled in such an organized manner on its own. WHO is behind it ???
Who is the one who converts us from child to a young and powerfull person and then to a weak old man victom of all kind of diseases ???
WHO is the one who helps a human being when he is helpless and dishearted and there is none to help him ???
WHO is the one who sent us to this world for a time which is negligible as compared to the time before and after us ( applicable to every human) ???
WHO is the master of earthquakes, winds, storms, floods, and others....
WHO is the one who helps a seed ( under the ground) to grow into a little plant and then grow into a tree.
WHO is the one who made each and every human being from a single drop.
WHO is the one who orders for rain when humans become totally hopeless and find no sign of rain ???
Just concentrate on your ownself, you would feel there definately is someone behind its creation.Who is that ??
Who is the one who created all these mountains, seas, rivers, oceans, trees ???
Who is the one who has made the ground uneven ???
Who is the one who helps the sheeps and cows make milk for you and orders them to allow you to take milk from them. Had the cow a bit of brain, it would have used its strength in resisting when a man comes near it for taking milk
Who is the one who created love for you in the hearts of your parents, that even a selfish person can't help it, but give preferrence to his child over himself
WHO is the one who traps your ships in strong oceans and then when you find noway out but death, he listens to your prayers and helps your ships reach the sea shore ???
Who is the one who feeds the largest and smallest fishes in the oceans ???
WHO is the one who bless you with happiness AFTER you go through the toughest time in your life ???
who is the one who gave a human the ability to think and understand better than other animals ???
WHO is the one who made this universe limited for you and left no way for you to leave it ???
Who is the one who makes the full moon on some nights and half on others ???
who is the one who orders the sun to rise from the east and set in the west ???
who is the one who gives the birds the ability to fly and doesnt give the same ability to other creatures ??
WHO is the one who is making billions of creatures and killing billions of creatures at the same time BUT doesnot make ANY single mistake
e.g. By mistake puting a dog's nose inplace of a man's nose. If you were born with a dog's nose, you would have got killed by the smell of the gutters around you. Who created this balance of tolerance ????
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
how is it blind faith if it is something which is observable?
Hmm...You seem to be a person with alot of knowledge. Today I want to learn from you, HOW do you observe "Self conciousness" ?
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
I can't see how atheists, treat every religious story as crap. But they don't realise the stupidet of all these stories is... "We're just here...just because"
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
Agnostics in the true sense of the word, who just don't commit either way.
It's not about commitment, it's acknowledgment that certain things are unknown and unknowable. That human knowledge is soley limited to experience.
The experience most people who KNOW all about religion have is based on the thoughts and interpretation of others. They usually attach themselves to a faith for selfish reasons, not knowledgable onse: 1) to have ready-made answers to ease their minds. 2) to belong to a group. 3) to have a purpose, rules to follow. 4) to have eternal life.
Give a person who has had no contact with the outside world (or religions) books on philosophy and religion. With no outside influence, what set of beliefs do you think they will follow after study? Can you honestly say it would be Islam?
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
how is it blind faith if it is something which is observable?
as for the rest of your post, specious reasoning, lack of proper understanding of why people/on most organisms are unique, and why those that arent unique arent. these things are easily explained.
as i've always said, when people cannot explain something, they solve it by saying it is the work of a higher power.
Well you never replied to my last post but anyway.
Commeting on the emboldened part, this is where you are using the WHYS and HOWS incorrectly. Its not why organisms are unique but how they become unique. Its mechanism that someone obviously invented that causes us to become unique or not. So what you think is why is actually our knowledge of HOW we become unique and there is nothing wrong in researching and understanding that. The question of WHY is to show us that someone is capable of inducing such precise and calculated changes, so WHY are things the way they are is to demonstrate to us or show us the magnanimity of someone who did it in the first place. There is nothing in this whole universe that we use that we invented the first time around. We use existing resources to create things but I challenge you to show me one thing which we created from nothing. Our achievements in this world are not even a millioneth fraction of a fraction compared to the one who created the whole universe and its subtleties.
The problem with your arguments is not that they are not based on knowledge but with the fact that you are comparing things for which there is no comparison. I bet you cannot explain why you do not believe in God.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
in other words, if we knew what god was we wouldnt even be believers. god isnt real.
allow me, pal. =)
god, as you define him, is all about the fear of the unknown. if it is something of known origin, it isn't god. ergo.
ergo.. god is unknown. why do you conflate unknown with unreal?
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
Agnostics in the true sense of the word, who just don't commit either way.
^ So, those who care not either way have a right to demand proof...
k then,
if an agnostic were to demand proof, what sort of reply would they get, sincethey're entitled to one.
Re: How does someone become an atheist?
i think the sticking point between believers and athiests is whether there is a Will behind creation. we agree that there is an origin, we may even agree about the mechanics of how we became what we are now. it is also possible that everything that we cite as evidence of Allah such as the ones in this post are a result of the processes that science has uncovered. it is unlikely that Allah personally for example makes the retinas of each person different, it is more likely in my view that He created the laws and the conditions in our system conducive as to have human retinas unique from each other.
casting the discussion in terms of “how did this happen” isnt a silver bullet even if the quoted ‘this’ is very wonderful. Very complex and intricate patterns can emerge from cellular automata for example, just based on the general mathematical laws of the cells without a specific (or atleast explicit) design. if you focus on one specific part of the picture there, you may start arguing that that specific part was designed to be so, while the athiest would argue (correctly) that it is a natural, explainable instance of the processes in place in our world.
the disagreement is whether those laws, that system that eventually generated humanity and the world as it is today was a pre-existing condition, or whether somebody put those laws in place.
