Exactly what tells us what is right and wrong. Is it a special feeling we get? or is our mind convinced of it? Can our senses or something that triggers pleasure tell us what is right or give us a picture of reality?
Your opinions, appreciated.
In a short sentence: Its called religion.
To elaborate on it I could send you a 10 page assignment but I’d rather not
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
Love happens once . . .
Exactly what tells us what is right and wrong<<<
Zamir!
sometime what we know is wrong feels sooooo goood
I think we are talking about relative values and absolute values here.
Are good and bad relative? are right and wrong relative? If they are , which values are absolute?
What about honesty, love, liberty, etc.
An interesting comment on values in the modern context, although not 100% relevant is at http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1111-06.htm
So what are universal values? what things do all people agreee on at least in principle? If we can define these things then I think we will be closer to defining what’s right and what’s wrong
I agree with shirin, RIGHT or WRONG (just like GOOD and BAD) are relative terms....
depends much upon the time and situation I think....
we can follow our ZAMEER to judge what is right/wrong but we r not the best of judges so we might make a mistake some time....
or u can stick to the religion, the country laws and whatever your institute laws are and follow them strictly to avoid being wrong....
[quote]
Originally posted by Shirin:
*So what are universal values? what things do all people agreee on at least in principle? *
[/quote]
I've been asking the same question over and over again in different threads. Nobody has tried to answer it.
Why?
[quote]
Is it a special feeling we get? or is our mind convinced of it?
[/quote]
probably somewhere in between.
Interesting replies.
coconut,
Please do elaborate.
ahmadjee,
Zamir = conscience?
I think right and wrong drives the conscience but the conscience does not tell us what is right and wrong. Don’t you think?
PakistaniAbroad,
Do you mean donner meat and chips?
Shirin,
If everyone agreed on absolute values would it make the values correct? Will everyone agree? Can the vote of the majority decide truth?
How do we decide that something can be seen as good and something be seen as bad?
Western philosophy dictates that anything that is pleasurable is good anything that isn’t is bad. I can understand their basis but not agree since they believe that after life they will become dust so they will push ideas like ‘live life to the fullest’, ‘maximum amount of pleasure, shortest amount of time’.
According to Islam:
“But it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth and you know not.” Baqara 216
Depending on the intellect alone which is subject to disparity, difference and contradiction, would make the judgement affected by the environment in which the mind lives. The judgement would change over time.
honesty - The honourable thing to do when you are captured by the enemy is to lie.
love - can u love rapists and murderers?
liberty - from what, from a state which looks after you, or from divine law or man made law.
Is there such a thing as a good or bad action?
armughal,
homosexuality has always been bad in Islam.
Man made law could be seen as relative but not divine law.
also this topic is more about absolute truth.
Muzna,
I think you may have single handedly uncovered some deep rooted conspiracy by Shirin and her henchmen. A guppie coup perhaps.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
Mr Xtreme,
Following pleasure can never and a limited main can’t reach the truth if it were the case then why do we need messengers?
What is right or wrong depends entirely on the values that one holds.
So we, as Muslims, see nothing wrong with executing someone found guilty of committing rape, whereas the average Dutchman would view it as being horrific.
For us as Muslims, our first sense of right or wrong must come from the values of Islam that we follow.
[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
**What is right or wrong depends entirely on the values that one holds.
So we, as Muslims, see nothing wrong with executing someone found guilty of committing rape, whereas the average Dutchman would view it as being horrific.
For us as Muslims, our first sense of right or wrong must come from the values of Islam that we follow.**
[/quote]
But you see, not everyone agrees on what Islam says.
When you speak of the death sentence for rape you are reducing something very complex to very simple terms.
Islam doesn't mean that you grab him and chop off his head.
It doesn't mean you should avoid trying to understand why this man committed the crime.
As a muslim I would go further: What is the society's responsibility in this? Why did this man do it? was therea reason why he has behaved in such a terrible fashion? Why has he so little respect for people? Has he learned that he can do it and get away with it? Why?
I do believe that there are universal values. Whether we are able to understand them or not is another question. After all, Allah is "Rabbilalameen" - the Lord of humankind not "Rabbilmuslimeen" - the Lord of Muslims. But if we want to understand these values we need to be humble and patient, be willing to continue to learn and listen to all ideas and opinions.
Actions by themselves are neither bad nor good. It the surrounding conditions that make the action good or bad.
Killing a person is bad.
Killing a person who has committed murder is good.
mAd_ScIeNtIsT,
I agree with you. We have no problem our basis is Islam. Islam can be intellectually proven to be true that makes anything else incorrect for us.
What is the basis of right and wrong for someone who isn't Muslim?
Shirin,
So what is their basis for right and wrong? Do they really have a basis?
Well, let's try and list a few values...
What about
The sanctity of life
to start with. It's a small thing to say but if you think about it it means a lot.
Good start Shirin. I can't imagine any society not believing in the sanctity of life.
How about stealing and robbery? That's gotta be generally wrong.
I don't think non-Muslims have a basis for right and wrong. Yesterday something was bad today it becomes good and vice versa.
Basically they're confused. I think that opinions of people without a basis shouldn't be taken too seriously. They will find something wrong when they want to and they will find something right when they want to.
I think the 'norm' is what will decide the good and bad actions for them. People's lives are being taken because of the 'norm' for example in war it is a norm that innocent civillians are killed. The sanctity of their lives are ignored. Their lives are put under one heading 'collateral damage'.
The norm is hardly a basis. But for most of them it is their foundation of opposing Islam.
Shirin,
I'm assuming this was put forward for the non-Muslims.
sanctity of life? collateral damage.
Muzna,
stealing, robbing? both good in a war situation whether Muslim or non-Muslim.
Actions by themselves are not bad or good, only the surrounding conditions can decide whether the action was good or bad.
[This message has been edited by scarface (edited November 19, 2001).]
Scarface, shall we say we are talking about what people believe in for themselves... then we can see if at least in theory it should be extended to others?
Shirin,
Again, the question of the topic comes back.
How do you know what's right and wrong?
Even if we decided that something is right, does it make that 'something' right?
I think this is not for us humans. Our limited minds are full of disparities and contradictions. Only Allah(swt) can decide what is right and wrong.
An example is that a pregnant woman was hit by a drunk driver and she had a miscarriage. Since abortion was legal based on the foetus is not alive so abortion is not killing the crime was drink driving.
Scarface, that is the reason I am asking you what you believe in for yourself, I am not asking you what the law says.
scarface,
I understand the concept that surrounding circumstances impact or should impact a judgement call.
However, not all people in the world are Muslim. There are several that don't believe in Allah. How do we determine what's right and wrong for them?
Shirin,
As A Muslim all my values are decided by Islam. The Prophet(saw) said words to the effect of "None of you truly believes until his desires are according to what I have brought".
Muzna,
I was hoping some non-Muslims would reply to this topic and let us know.
I made the assumption of seeing all non-Muslims as one at the start of this topic but I realised that not all non-Muslims decide right and wrong by what gives pleasure and what gives pain. Basically slaves to their desires.
I think there are some that are plain confused.
I put the question to faceup in another thread in this section but so far no reply.