Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
^ Yes, ISI sponsored those resolutions in UN as well (nehru was also an agent) and christine fair, hrw, amnesty are on the payroll of ISI as well.
you should actually go read those resolutions you are talking about. It calls for Pakistan to quit first. Pakistan has not done that.
This is so typical of Pakistan to doubledeal, doublecross and then use the muslim card or victim card.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
Did you invite a UN peacekeeping force to conduct the plebiscite? Those same resolutions also didn't allow for thousands of indian military forces.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
this is exactly why I asked you to first read before shooting of. Pakistan was asked to first remove all its forces from Kashmir - did you do that? No. Go read the resolution before parroting the same nonsense!
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
It is very sad that a person like you starts misguiding
This was not the first, These have been started much earlier.
The present situation is result of Mush Policy
A news related to the topic of thread .
**US distances itself from congressional hearing over Balochistan issue
**
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
the problem in Kashmir is about Pakistani state terrirism and therefore those hearings may found if you search under ISI and terrorism
It is not about Pakistan sponsored terrorism but more the Indian army massacre of Kashmiris on the orders of Indian govt.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
Buddy, you weren’t supposed to keep thousands of troops in kashmir either. You could keep some to help in plebiscite, but nehru never really went for a peacekeeping force and then flip flopped on a resolution he himself got from the UN.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
can you please let me know where I am misguiding? These are historical facts from which we cannot shy away from!
1972 operation was started during Bhuttos time and Zia came to power and ended it.
The present operation was started in Musharraf’s time and PPP did not stop it (after coming to power).
Infact during the last assembly session Baloch parliamentarians asked PM about his policies for Balochistan and he preferred to keep quiet. He is not interested in anything other than finding out ways of plundering the country.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
It is not about Pakistan sponsored terrorism but more the Indian army massacre of Kashmiris on the orders of Indian govt.
are'nt you ashamed of your badnaam-e-jamana i.s.i. with pakistan army for these things
1 killing and kidnapping then dumping the baloch people from helicopters , do you support them ?
2 your love for the muslims of origin of present day india (muhazir ) is well known . yes you call them panahgujeen ? agent of india ? who killed them in 1991- 93 by falsely implicating them in treason cases , read brig. imtiaze's revealations .
3 your agencies invaded kashmir in 1948 sending army jawans in the garb of tribals but your real face was unveiled before the world , it was now clear how pakistan army attacks .
4. army sponsored jaish e muhammad aka jamat ud dawa, lashkars e taiyaba, lashkar e jhang, sipah e sahaba have been funded for terror activities in kashmir ,
5. not to talk about unfortunate christians and hindus who are converted on the point of guns , their girls raped and abducted by i.s.i. goons.
6. your army attacked in 1965 , 1971, 1998 that results is well known defeats but without any shame i.s.i. sent terrorists in bombay killing innocents.
7.what your army did in 1971 in bangladesh can be turmed as butchery of bengalis .
indian army is a necessity in kashmir because of three time stabbing in the back by pakistan army . that is your frustration
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
Lol@ jamana and muha*z*ir
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
are'nt you ashamed of your badnaam-e-jamana i.s.i. with pakistan army for these things 1 killing and kidnapping then dumping the baloch people from helicopters , do you support them ? 2 your love for the muslims of origin of present day india (muhazir ) is well known . yes you call them panahgujeen ? agent of india ? who killed them in 1991- 93 by falsely implicating them in treason cases , read brig. imtiaze's revealations . 3 your agencies invaded kashmir in 1948 sending army jawans in the garb of tribals but your real face was unveiled before the world , it was now clear how pakistan army attacks . 4. army sponsored jaish e muhammad aka jamat ud dawa, lashkars e taiyaba, lashkar e jhang, sipah e sahaba have been funded for terror activities in kashmir , 5. not to talk about unfortunate christians and hindus who are converted on the point of guns , their girls raped and abducted by i.s.i. goons. 6. your army attacked in 1965 , 1971, 1998 that results is well known defeats but without any shame i.s.i. sent terrorists in bombay killing innocents. 7.what your army did in 1971 in bangladesh can be turmed as butchery of bengalis .
indian army is a necessity in kashmir because of three time stabbing in the back by pakistan army . that is your frustration
As far as you can see Pakistani people are doing some introspection here, and there are plenty of posts which are against Pakistani army and isi here, having said that we do understand India's takleef with isi and pak army.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
are'nt you ashamed of your badnaam-e-jamana i.s.i. with pakistan army for these things 1 killing and kidnapping then dumping the baloch people from helicopters , do you support them ? 2 your love for the muslims of origin of present day india (muhazir ) is well known . yes you call them panahgujeen ? agent of india ? who killed them in 1991- 93 by falsely implicating them in treason cases , read brig. imtiaze's revealations . 3 your agencies invaded kashmir in 1948 sending army jawans in the garb of tribals but your real face was unveiled before the world , it was now clear how pakistan army attacks . 4. army sponsored jaish e muhammad aka jamat ud dawa, lashkars e taiyaba, lashkar e jhang, sipah e sahaba have been funded for terror activities in kashmir , 5. not to talk about unfortunate christians and hindus who are converted on the point of guns , their girls raped and abducted by i.s.i. goons. 6. your army attacked in 1965 , 1971, 1998 that results is well known defeats but without any shame i.s.i. sent terrorists in bombay killing innocents. 7.what your army did in 1971 in bangladesh can be turmed as butchery of bengalis .
indian army is a necessity in kashmir because of three time stabbing in the back by pakistan army . that is your frustration
indik, the challenge here is that in any sort of conflict one side can't be an angel and other the devil.
anyone who says that for any conflict, has had some koolaid overdose :)
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
This is degenerating into an idiotic pissing contest.
Back to the subject at hand, we need to do more to protect the average citizen of Baluchistan. More so we need to address their legitimate grievances and make sure we don't give the US an excuse to destabilize the region even further.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
There are many even on this forum who dont support Pakistani army actions in Balochistan, Karachi and even in FATA.
Was ISI present in 1948???:halo:
lashkar e jhangvi, and SSP are sectarian organizations and they are busy in Pakistan, I havent heard of their activities in Indian Held Kashmir. LET and Jaish e Muhammad I agree have been involved in Kashmiri jehad. I dont touch upon the role Indian embassies in Afghanistan have played in destabilizing Pakistan, since our own government prefers not to talk about it. All intelligence agencies operate in a certain way to uphold the country’s interests, however the way Pakistani intelligence agencies have started operating within the country thats dangerous for the country.
These kind of isolated incidents we keep hearing on our media regarding India as well, so dont generalize.
1948, and 1965 were stalemates (hardly a victory for both countries), 1971 was a victory for India (follies from Pakistan army plus separation of thousands of kilometers) and 1998 if you consider that a loss (that was mostly due to the diplomatic barrage that Pakistan could not sustain).
I will NOT justify what the army did in Bengal.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
US Congressional hearing on Balochistan/dismemberment of Pakistan
**The subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs held a hearing on Wednesday (2/8/2012) to discuss the target killings and human rights situation in Balochistan and termed it a matter requiring urgent attention.
**
The hearing was chaired by Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher who recently co-authored an article with Congressman Louie Gohmert expressing support for an independent Balochistan. “Perhaps we should even consider support for a Balochistan carved out of Pakistan to diminish radical power there (in Pakistan),” Rohrabacher wrote in his piece.
In his submitted testimony to the committee, Amnesty International’s Advocacy Director T. Kumar called on the US to “apply the Leahy Amendment without waivers to all Pakistani military units in Balochistan.”
Ali Dayan Hasan, the Pakistan director for Human Rights Watch, in his testimony, said that cases documented by the HRW show that Pakistan’s security forces and its intelligence agencies were involved in the enforced disappearance of ethnic Baloch. The HRW representative asked the US government in his recommendations to “communicate directly to the agencies responsible for disappearances and other abuses including the army, ISI, IB, Frontier Corps, police and other law enforcement and intelligence agencies, to demand an end to abuses and facilitate criminal inquiries to hold perpetrators accountable.”
Hasan dubbed the military’s role in the province as brutal, and an occupying one. He clarified that the HRW took no position on the issue of the independence of Balochistan. **He argued that the US and UK had made enforced disappearances possible by allowing them during the war on terror, which has led to the military doing the same.
**
Dr M Hosseinbor, a Baloch lawyer and witness at the hearing, said that according to Baloch sources, nearly 4,000 people have disappeared in the province since 2001. In his submitted remarks, Mr Bor called on the US to support an independent Balochistan “in case Pakistan or Iran or both collapsed from within.”
**Ralph Peters’ Testimony
**
Perhaps the most important testimony was of retired Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters, the creator of the 2006 New Middle East map that showed a truncated Pakistan. In his article accompanying the map – Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look - published in the Armed Forces Journal in June 2006, he argued that Pakistan is an unnatural state and a natural Pakistan should lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi. **"Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier tribes would be reunited with their Afghan brethren. Pakistan, another unnatural state, would also lose its Baluch territory to Free Balochistan.
**
**His Wednesday testimony was buildup on his New Middle East map with truncated Pakistan as he said “Pakistan’s borders make no sense and don’t work.” He went on to say:
**
“The Durand Line, delineating the state’s border with Afghanistan, was just a convenient inheritance from British India: Originally, it established how far the British believed they needed to push out a buffer zone west of the Indus River to protect “the Jewel in the Crown,” British India, from tribal warfare and imperial Russian machinations. The Durand Line marked a military frontier, but the “real” frontier of British India and its rich civilization was the Indus.”
**Supporting the creation of Pashtunistan by separating the northern Pashtun tribal belt along the border with Pakistan, Peter argued that why not forty million Pashtuns in Pakistan and Afghanistan their own state? " Of course, determining the final boundaries of such a state would be problematic, but why shouldn’t the Pashtuns have their own country?" He went on to say that our allegiance to today’s boundaries exacerbates the conflict. He argued:
**
**“The Durand Line arbitrarily divided tribal territories for British (and now Pakistani) convenience. It would be hard to devise a more dysfunctional international border. Along with the rupture of minor ethnic groups, it split the substantial Pashtun and Baluchi populations between the artificial constructs that emerged as Pakistan and Afghanistan. Also for convenience, the rest of the world agreed to pretend that these are viable states. Yet, Afghanistan is little more than a rough territorial concept: Its historical rulers controlled, at best, major cities and the caravan (now highway) routes between them. At its birth sixty-five years ago, Pakistan was a Frankenstein’s monster of a state, cobbled together from ill-fitting body parts to award the subcontinent’s Muslim activists a state of their own.”
**
**Repeating his argument of the New Middle East, Peters said at present, the Baluchis are divided between southwestern Pakistan, southern Afghanistan and southeastern Iran–all because of those artificial borders that were convenient for someone else. “At least ten million and perhaps twice that number suffer intolerable levels of discrimination, dispossession and state violence,” he said adding:
We need to ask honestly why Baluchis are not entitled to a Free Balochistan, why the Pashtuns–despite their abhorrent customs–are not entitled to a Pakhtunkhwa for all Pashtuns, why forty-million Kurds aren’t entitled to a Free Kurdistan, or why its eastern provinces must remain part of the geopolitical monstrosity we call “Congo.”
**
The map of the “New Middle East” was a key element in the retired Lieutenant-Colonel’s book, Never Quit the Fight *, *which was released to the public in July 2006. The concept of a redrawn Middle East has been presented as a “humanitarian” and “righteous” arrangement that would benefit the people of the Middle East and its peripheral regions. According to Ralph Peter’s:
"International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference – often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.
To borrow Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya, could it be Lieutenant-Colonel Peters, who was last posted to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, within the U.S. Defense Department, is revealing and putting forward what Washington D.C. and its strategic planners have anticipated for the Middle East?
**Not surprisingly, “Pakistan as a failing empire” was the title of Peters’ Wednesday testimony in which he argued that Pakistan is not an integrated state, but a miniature empire that inherited its dysfunctional and unjust boundaries from Britain’s greater, now-defunct empire. "We must set aside our lazy Cold-War-era assumption that Pakistan is a necessary ally, he said and concluded by saying: it’s time to abandon Pakistan and switch our support wholeheartedly to India.
**
**State Department distances itself from Balochistan hearing
**
When asked about the Congressional hearing on Balochistan, State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland said that their view on Balochistan remains unchanged. “Congress holds hearings on many foreign affairs topics. These hearings don’t necessarily imply that the US Government endorses one view or another view. I’d underscore that the State Department is not participating or involved in this hearing today.”
The spokesperson referred to comments she had made recently on Balochistan on Twitter, “We emphasise that the United States engages with Pakistan on a whole range of issues, including ways to foster economic development and expand opportunity in Balochistan.”
When asked whether the US supports a demand for an independent Balochistan, Nuland said, “Our view on this has not changed, and you know where we’ve been on Balochistan. We encourage all the parties in Balochistan to work out their differences peacefully and through a valid political process.”
In Islamabad, Members of the Senate of Pakistan, both from the ruling party and the opposition, Thursday condemned the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations for discussing the Balochistan issue, terming it a direct interference in Pakistan’s affairs.
Senator Raza Rabbani of the ruling Pakistan Peoples Party said that the US Senate committee has no jurisdiction to call a hearing on any issue happening in Pakistan. “There should be a clear message to the US from the Senate of Pakistan and the government that such an intervention is intolerable,” he said.
Rabbani, said that some foreign elements have joined hands to exploit the situation in Balochistan and this is against the sovereignty of an independent country. “We cannot surrender our sovereignty in the name of globalization.”
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
It is not about Pakistan sponsored terrorism but more the Indian army massacre of Kashmiris on the orders of Indian govt.
That is what you'd like to believe in your denial - proof after proof exists that Pakistan has been behind all cross border terrorism into India. Sooner you (and all other Pakistanis in such denial) face up to it the better it is for your own country. This denial of yours tantamounts to support of such atrocities by Pakistan and the results are very much there to see aren't they?
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
Buddy, you weren't supposed to keep thousands of troops in kashmir either. You could keep some to help in plebiscite, but nehru never really went for a peacekeeping force and then flip flopped on a resolution he himself got from the UN.
Supposed by who? We will keep our army wherever we want in India. Do we tell you where to keep yours?
The plebiscite - thi s is the last time I am going to tell you - read the document and develop your knowledge on the subject !The UN resolution clearly asked that Pakistan remove all its troops out of Kashmir before plebiscite or anyother action will happen. Pakistan did not. Like it or lump it, that is the fact.
Read the document first!
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
As far as you can see Pakistani people are doing some introspection here, and there are plenty of posts which are against Pakistani army and isi here, having said that we do understand India's takleef with isi and pak army.
you are right - it is important to acknowledge that not all pakistanis are insane. there are indeed many sane pakistanis who are infuriated by the pakistani security establishment's activities. they will be outraged when the ISI murders saleem shahzad, disappears baloch dissidents, and meddles in the political process. this outrage is a good thing.
but when it comes to arming and funding brainwashed madrassa graduates to infiltrate kashmir and create a war zone for nobody's benefit, do the sane pakistanis object? nope. they cheer on the "mujahideen". introspection has to happen at a much higher level on macro security policies, not just when you fear secession of one of your states.
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
That is what you'd like to believe in your denial - proof after proof exists that Pakistan has been behind all cross border terrorism into India. Sooner you (and all other Pakistanis in such denial) face up to it the better it is for your own country. This denial of yours tantamounts to support of such atrocities by Pakistan and the results are very much there to see aren't they?
If any one is in denial here it is you, Kashmir is a disputed area not part of India. get that fact right. keeping 70,000 occupying soldiers there doesn't mean it is atoot ung of India. if it was you wouldn't need 70,000 soldiers, would you? Teh quicker you people realise that the better. Also it is easy to ride on American tailcoats and play your anti Pakistan hatred, as majority of Indians are doing now a days, but remember one thing America is not your friend either
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
^ Yes, ISI sponsored those resolutions in UN as well (nehru was also an agent) and christine fair, hrw, amnesty are on the payroll of ISI as well.
Oh Bhai jee whay are you wasting time with the genius..He is going to deny everything about India as Paki ISI propoganda be it their largest deomestic terror network in the world or be it UN resolution on Kashmir which has been posted on these news groups zillian times... CM works for UN and has disected the whole resolution piece by piece (which calls the 1st step of under 3rd party supervision and India calls it bilateral) but they call it ISI conspiracy...
Just have a drink and enjoy my friend....:)
Re: House Hearings on Balochistan: US Mulls Balkanization of Pakistan
Is the US policy consistent about any issue on this planet?
Pakistan has lost its reputation and there is a threat to its very existence and look what USA (united State of bull****) doing?
Tum loggon mein sharm ha , tum esk govt ko defend kartay ho?
keya hum sab stupid hein?