Maybe it is just me. But it sure feels like almost every day, there is a thread discussing the big bad neighbor to the east or west - depending on who opens the thread. Lost in all this is the fact that more than one million soldiers have lost their lives in the conflicts. While politicians and the masses - including the ones in this forum - trade barbs and support their positions with facts, the jawans bear the brunt under terrible conditions with little pay.
It is time we honor the jawans - both dead and alive - by finding solutions and not pointing fingers. This thread will be only about peace. Those who believe in it are welcome to visit and participate.
Only 3% of the Indian population pays taxes. About $500 billion evaded each year. Billions shipped overrseas. Tax evasion is par for the course. Same probably true in Pakistan.
Who are some of the people affected by such evaasion? The soldiers on the frontlines.We are sucking the lifer out of them while alive. Frosty conditions, poor clothing, no relief. While we thump our chests, wave out flags and throw verbal grenades. All from the comfort of a well heated home in winter and ac in summer.
Good thread, I waited a bit to see if people will show up. Maybe others were waiting too.
Sadly political leaders in many places have done the bidding for their corporate masters to turn the noble warriors of the nation into killer mercenaries.
But seriously, I don’t think issues in both countries can be discussed as one. Indian soldiers are victims of corruption and marginalization by their Government while Pakistani soldiers are victims of wrong policies of their leadership.
^ the reasons for the plight of soldiers may be different. You may be right in your assessment. But unfortunately, it is only the foot soldiers who do the sacrifices. While those with little to lose are hawkish.
Anyone who would like to provide input on living conditions of soldiers on the frontlines is welcome yo do so. I will continue to do the same. Movements take time. Information needs to soak in. Let us provide the information.
1947-1948: 4,000 soldiers dead between India and Pakistan combined
1965: 13,000 soldiers dead if you combine the exaggerated casualty reports from both India and Pakistan
1971: 13,000 soldiers dead
Kargil: 1,000 soldiers dead
That makes about 31,000 fatalities in the major conflicts, and the combined number who have died in border skirmishes over 60-70 years will have added at most only 1,000-2,000 at most.
To put this into context, 90,000 children die in Pakistan alone every year due to diseases for which immunizations are readily available but not delivered.
You are probably correct, Scientist. The link which I had provide in India Sri Lanka vote thread march 24 was for total casualties. I guess that includes civilians.
Although going from 31K to a million is a big stretch - the loss of those 30K+ lives is still worth reflecting whether it was all really necessary or worth it. Probably even more critical if we want to ensure this number doesn’t get anywhere close to that million.
Yes you are correct. I have acknowledged it in post 11.
Also 31000 total soldiers dead. Times 2 injured. Approaching 100000 dead + injured. Many times injured don’t figure into the equation. But you are correct.
Does that include, psychological stress, disease, disability (maybe not included at all), small injuries not reported, accidents, mis-fires, etc.?
An insidious way that USA claims 10k dead in vietnam instead of 50-90k is dead by wounds instead of K.I.A
You have to remember the border was a complete hot-bed until nuclear deterrant arrived; why do you think lahore and amritsar are not he respective capitals?
There was always something going on, I had/have a few relatives in the military..
And, we live with the threat of a nuclear menace. I’m too young to really remember 2001-2004 but I read about how India/Pakistan were going to nuke each other. Even though, I should be above such things I know it’s my home-land that’s going to be bombed because either you bomb the place where half the population lives (Pak) or the place where 30% of the soldiers come from (India). There’s personal, religious, and historical sites at risk and for what? People are exploited by the political class, everyday.
I would say, that Pakistanis are lucky to not be a part of this Re-Pub-lic because they are trying to take you to the pub, and turn your mind into a Relic.
However, the ratio of killed to wounded will not have been anywhere near the same in the 1965 and 1971 wars as the US had in Iraq and Afghanistan.
While India and Pakistan’s military both had excellent healthcare by the standards of the time, the fact remains that military healthcare 40 years ago is not the same as health care today. Injuries that would kill back then are possible to stabilise now; and the medical evacuation methods the US has access to are far in advance of what India and Pakistan had back then.
This threat has successfully deflected wars so many times that investing in nuclear bombs is probably the best investment either country has ever made.
