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*Originally posted by pk taz: *
In pk I caught my cousin french kiss his bf, no body made a big deal out of it... guys there jokingly grab each others crotch's etc. and nobody says anything.
Everyone there does it. At first I thought it was just our area the North but it's all over only difference is in some parts its more discreet.
It happens all over Sindh, NWFP, Balochistan etc.
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I don't know, dude. You must have lived in a different Pakistan than I did.
I am not saying homosexuality is not there. I am sure its there. Its just not as rampant as you make it out to be, nor is it as tolerated as you suggest. I am not sure if there are any statistics to back up your assertions or mine. May it be that you moved around in those kinds of groups where you observed this behavior and extrapolated it, incorrectly?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Homosexuality is a western disease
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
I don't know, dude. You must have lived in a different Pakistan than I did.
I am not saying homosexuality is not there. I am sure its there. Its just not as rampant as you make it out to be, nor is it as tolerated as you suggest. I am not sure if there are any statistics to back up your assertions or mine. May it be that you moved around in those kinds of groups where you observed this behavior and extrapolated it, incorrectly?
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Faisal:
I don't know, I mean Pakistanis would not raise eyebrows if two guys were walking hand in hand or were hanging out/dating each other. I think our society espicially the segregated one makes it easy for these relations. i mean imagine you and some girl caught in the same bed versus Omar from down the street, what would your parents say? (Ofcourse I am talking about you being 17 not your present age :D)
In (urban) pakistan young boys do hang out alot. Doing awara gardi, Playing cricket, going shopping and doing lots and lots of stuff togather.
Walking while holding hands and hugging friends is so common.But this does not Characterize you as gay. This is simple old friendship.
Although homosexuality is always present nobody can deny that. I have so many friends from school,college university etc. none of them has a slight bit of gay tendency (some of them are very good looking ).
It is infact very easy for a homosexual to show affection for his partner in public and nobody would notice :)
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*Originally posted by Code_Red: *
In (urban) pakistan young boys do hang out alot. Doing awara gardi, Playing cricket, going shopping and doing lots and lots of stuff togather.
Walking while holding hands and hugging friends is so common.But this does not Characterize you as gay. This is simple old friendship.
Although homosexuality is always present nobody can deny that. I have so many friends from school,college university etc. none of them has a slight bit of gay tendency (some of them are very good looking ).
It is infact very easy for a homosexual to show affection for his partner in public and nobody would notice :)
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Code: My point exactly. While the majority of friends holding hands do activities is not homosexual, the minority that is homosexual can also do it without people noticing (or rather being aware of it).
Not to go too much off-tangent but a friend told me a story a few months back of a guy from Pakistan engaged to a Pakistani girl here in the US and only AFTER their marriage did she find out that he was gay! She soon filed for divorce. Now THAT is bizarre and scary since this scenario can possibly repeat itself with anyone. Be careful girls!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Homosexuality is a western disease
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*Originally posted by pk taz: *
When did you last visit Pakistan?
Pakistan has changed a lot in the past few years; maybe it wasn't as rampant when you were there.
Also the urban folk don't usually know this sort of stuff exists because they keep themselves to themselves and have small social circles whereas in the villages the whole community is closely knit and everyone knows what everyone has been up to.
The older generation are all hush hush about it and don't really tolerate it even if they probably had done it themselves in their youth but our generation is chilled out and openly talk about their sexual encounters with boys, very refreshing..
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I was there July 2002. Then again, I have never lived in villages, so obviously my views are based on what I have seen in city-living. Homosexuality is (probably) there, but its miniscule and almost ignorable. All I see and hear are stories about guys following gals.
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*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
I don't know, I mean Pakistanis would not raise eyebrows if two guys were walking hand in hand or were hanging out/dating each other.
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Guys hanging out, walking together, japphi daaling etc is very common in Pakistan, bcz (1) our society is segregationist and guys hang out with guys and gals hang out with gals, and (2) when two guys hang out, play pool/cricket etc, its not assumed that they will end up in bed together too.
Now, the trends are changing... a lot of interaction between guys and gals is quite visible, but I am positive, homosexuality is still very hush hush... atleast in city living. I have no comments about village-dwellers.
I joke around to see their reaction and its always negative if they are brit pakis but in Pakistan its all cool.
In pk I caught my cousin french kiss his bf, no body made a big deal out of it... guys there jokingly grab each others crotch's etc. and nobody says anything.
Everyone there does it. At first I thought it was just our area the North but it's all over only difference is in some parts its more discreet.
It happens all over Sindh, NWFP, Balochistan etc.
My Sikh bf says it's the same in India.
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All u ever talk about is being gay or bi sexual is that all u care about in life, every 2 weeks u come up with a new thread about homos. As for homos being normal in pakistan i dont think so maybe ur family is full of it, as u mentioned ur own cousin. Dont u have another topic to discuss or is homo sexuality is all what u know of??????
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*Originally posted by karina: *
And it's not a disease. It's like being a left hander or right. If there wasn't so much social stigma attached to it I bet there'd be many more gays out there.
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get ur facts right, homosexuality is one of only 2 taboos which are universal to all major religons of the world, and sex is for one prime and obvious reason reproduction. Homosexuals cant reproduce, so there relation ship has no result and reason. being homosexual is a bit like trying to use ur headphones as a microphone. Simple u wont get any output. To say homosexulaity is normal is fighting nature it is no way natural to be a homo, people make there minds to work that way, and learn to think its all normal.
Saying that its like being left handed makes no sence cuz what ever hand u use u can have an end result just as good, but if someone is homo they simply cant have a result at all so there is no comparsion.
homo's are sick people, mentally!!!!!!
robby thanks for presenting your opinion. I'm not sure if being homosexual is learned or natural however one thing I know for certain is that it is immoral to be gay. I have nothing against homosexual people but like you said, there is no "point" to being gay. Allah mian created men and women to marry each other and reproduce in order to perpetuate humanity. Homosexuals simply don't comply to this lifestyle. I feel bad for them perhaps but still, I don't agree with their lifestyle and the many issues that come with it such as gays getting married, raising children, holding positions of influence in holy places, etc. This is just my point of view. No offense intended towards anyone.
Islam’s view on homosexuality (live and learn pk taz, and please stop being confused about your identity):
There is no doubt that in Islam homosexuality is considered ‘sinful’. Homosexuality as far as Islam is concerned is a profound mistake ( as are all sins if they are not intending to do wrong). Humans are not homosexuals by nature. People become homosexuals because of their environments. Particularly critical is the environment during puberty. Suggestions, ideas & strange dreams are symptoms of confused attempts to understand new and blunt sexual desires and are rashly interpreted as defining someone as being one sexuality or another. If these conclusions are accompanied by actual homosexual acts they are even more strongly reinforced.
Human instincts can be subjected to acts of will. Sexuality is a choice of identity which follows choices of action which follow from choices of what to have sexual fantasies about. Human beings are especially able to control their thoughts, entertaining some and dismissing others.
However, if this free will is not recognised it is easy to get into a cycle of thinking which starts from accepting a hypothesis about yourself as true rather than as a possible choice (even if the options are sometimes difficult).For example: "I am lazy " could be supposed true by someone. When the person who thinks this lies around in bed in the morning he observes this inaction as evidence of the statement “I am lazy.” As he repeatedly chooses to do so the evidence mounts and the idea becomes fixed in his identity. It may even have physical manifestations and change his physiology and psychology. This process can easily occur for any idea good or bad about the self which is based largely on evidence resulting from ones own action. The idea may be “I am ‘gay’” or “I am content” or “I love eating lots of food”. The truth is - you are what you choose to be ; you do what you choose to do ; you think what you choose to think. There may be long time delays between the causing choices and the effects but anyone can change themselves. There are reformed ex-drug addicts, reformed ex-compulsive gamblers and ex-homosexuals. In all these sins prevention is 1000 times better than cure and much easier.
It has been suggested that homosexuality is genetically inherited and that those who have this ‘predisposition’ are victims of it not sinners of any sort. However, there are other things which are probably genetically influenced to give predispositions to for example gambling or alcoholism .It could also be argued (and has been) that it is programmed into men’s genetics for them to be unfaithful to their partner. All these things don’t make it the right thing to do, nor does it prevent these things from being regarded as sinful. Drinking alcohol will still be regarded as sinful in Islam even if you have a predisposition to be an alcoholic. The trick as every post alcoholic will tell you is never touch another drop after you quit - it is a long slippery slope - your life is better without it. Once a certain desire is connected to your identity strongly and you get in some way hooked on it, it will always be easy to return to it - you are unable to forget the satisfaction. The difficult task is remembering the bad side of the desire, such as hangovers, lost money, self loathing or a simply sense of loss because of what you missed out on. But if you are to change for the better, you must remember this and the past desires you bound up with your identity can become disconnected from what you choose to become.
pk taz u say ur a muslim but to be honest u can either be a muslim or u can be homo, cuz if u follow islam u cant be gay and no one can contidict that, to be a muslim you have to follow islamic law and if u keep practicing your homo sexuality you are going agaist islamic scriptures knownigly, in your last thread i explained and pointed out everything with refrences and this time sweetie pie has done so. I think its time for you to think what is more important to you Allah or homo sexuality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sweetpie: *
Not to go too much off-tangent but a friend told me a story a few months back of a guy from Pakistan engaged to a Pakistani girl here in the US and only AFTER their marriage did she find out that he was gay! She soon filed for divorce. Now THAT is bizarre and scary since this scenario can possibly repeat itself with anyone. Be careful girls!
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Now imagne if that girl was in Pakistan. She would have needed four witnesses and his permission before asking for a divorce. There are hmosexuals in every society. There might not be very many homosexuals walking around the countryside waiving the rainbow flag but I can guarantee you there are a lot of unhappy marriages.
Now imagne if that girl was in Pakistan. She would have needed four witnesses and his permission before asking for a divorce. There are hmosexuals in every society. There might not be very many homosexuals walking around the countryside waiving the rainbow flag but I can guarantee you there are a lot of unhappy marriages.
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just imagine if her guy died by and she was hindu, and in india, she would have been burnt to death.
to homosexuality