Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
he is always good with musical projects.
Ok Ninja tell me what we call classical music in Hindi and whats the reason behind that Hindi name 
Moreover, I heard that when ladke wale ladki ko dekhne aate te to uski sur taan bhi check hoti hai, aisa kiyun? kia saray ladke sureelay hote thay?
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
i think its related to kaam shastra(hope u know it)…
actually there are 64 kaam kala/art which can help women attract men…
and singing is one of them…
May be that is why they check voice of the girl…
Bhai you should look role of Hazrat Amir khusro in development of todays classical music…
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
Yes Ninja, I know that Ameer Khusro played important role in developing today’s Raag and Raginis.
So you means Shahstria is hunar / kala. kaam shastra ke bare main humain Sannan ka wait karne pade ga
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
shastra means science but according to modern definitions some subject fall under art category like music...thats why i said art.........
otherwise shastra means science
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
Karnatic and Hindustani are different type and then there are various gharanas like gwalior, ajmer, lucknow etc with their own styles,** Caranatic is south indian music generally sung in telgu, with various dance forms like Bharatnatyam, Kuchipudi**, mohiniattam etc. Vedic literature deals with philosophy only. My knowledge is very little in this field:)
nice points.
but carnatic and hindustani have same number of ragas with defferent names
My few cents.
hindustani can be appreciated by general mass which has more melody when compare to carnatic music which is far more complex and for technical guys,it was always been thing of brahmins plus it's stayed to it's Bhakti roots compare to hindustani which had influence from other parts.
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
nice points.
but carnatic and hindustani have same number of ragas with defferent names My few cents. hindustani can be appreciated by general mass which has more melody when compare to carnatic music which is far more complex and for technical guys,it was always been thing of brahmins plus it's stayed to it's Bhakti roots compare to hindustani which had influence from other parts.
Carantic appears richer than Hindustani secondly telgu is nearer to sanskrit than Hindustani BrajBhasha with words like Santosham, Sannidhyam etc, Carantic along with dance forms generally takes years to perfect it.
Not only music, but art, literature, science, politics etc are all Brahmin thing only, something special with their brain I suppose:D
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
So which Raag Raginis were invented by Brahmin musicians?
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
So which Raag Raginis were invented by Brahmin musicians?
Entire Caranatic music with dance forms, even TanSen was born brahmin, it comes in knowledge part, hence by default, it was Brahmin's domain.
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
Most interesting.
:k:
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
Faris Bhai what do you say on the topic. I remember you opened a thread on Qawwali too.
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
From what I gather most Music as has been said goes way into the mists of time as nobody truly knows the roots of Museeki.
However what I do know and believe is that the Indian Ragas and the Ancient Aramaic and Mongolic singing traditions picked up sounds from nature itself.
People have develeoped wonderfull ways to emulate natures behaviour and mimic natural sounds.
The reason why I agree with that theory is the localities where different nations and people came up with thier singing and musical styles. For example in the Ancient forested South India and central Africa the musical style of Raga’s are most influenced by rain.
This is also the case with Ancient South Chinese musical styles where the rain drops form the basic rythm of music and song.
Often people laugh these days when they hear classical Indian Sangeet, Before Musical scale I believe people mimiced natural sounds.
The common, Dhoon, Dhimaka, Dhaka, Dhoom, Dhimpaka Joom, joom jhum tana na than jhoom, dee deena na di deree ni deena na.
Sounds like the E to G scale of classical Indian Music but it is also remarkably simmilar to the chinese scale and one wonders that perhaps these sounds were first heard in ancient times and mimicked from rain drops as they fell on different leaves and water impacting on rocks.
The reason more arid regions have a different main scale such as the A-E scale in Mongolic singing and the rason much of the sound is not made by the tounge or lip pressure is becuase in those regions the sounds they mimicked were very different.
The most common notes in that region are drones and dirges which reflect the sound of the wind and hot dusty atmoshpere. One can imagine ancient people of the Tarim Basin and West of that region developed throat singing based almost entirely on the sound of the wind and hence they used thier throat muscles to make the sound.
Listen to this classical piece and close your eyes… you can almost imagine the rainwater pattering slowly in the forest.
Now compare that to this music, the sound is very different but the musical scale is quite close to the last piece, the instument is different and the sounds acheived reflect the nature around them… close your eyes you can almost imagine a strong breeze flowing across the grassland.
Tuvan Throat Singing - YouTube
This is real music, no lyrics just the power of sound alone. Amazing what sounds the human mind and body can create. Notice that both men use string instruments as well.
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
To better understand the complexities involved, this is an example of a very difficuilt Indian Raag Bhatiyar. The general style and flow of the raag is about a lovers lost love and the feeling of emptyness he feels. It is based on an ancient tradition in which a lost lover wanders th jungles and the musci flows across the four seasons at 15 minutes it seems a rather long piece but it is about average lenght for most classical raagas.
Pandit Ravi Shankar…Sitar (Raag Bhatiyar) - YouTube
Most of the learning techniques are entirely aural as very little is written down in form of sheet music and insturments are mostly A-Tonal in that they have no set tone or scale but this is done in the Bharsaaye style which literally translates to Monsoon or rainy season.
For a better insight into Tuvan (Mongolian Throat Singing) heres a clip from a BBC documentary where they show in detail the sounds of the Tuvan musical scale and how these sounds are achieved and how they relate to nature around them.
Mongolian Throat Singing - YouTube
From the above examples its easy to ascertain that the sounds of music developed alongside poetry. That the general inspiriations came from nature and human emotions.
More complex style and techniques like notes and lyrics rythm and rhyme all came after.
This is merely the soul fo music so to speak. A good introduction and a very interesting insight into Music not just of the subcontinet but of the wider world and traditon in general.
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
** Indian Classical music since centuries**
Indian Music and Mian Tansen - Chapter 1
The Indian classical music had a divine origin according to the ancient seers of India. Both the vedic and the Gandharva systems of music were nurtured in the hermitage of Rishis. Of course the kings who were the disciples of those great teachers give proper scopes for the demonstrations of their musical teachings.
**
Temples & Courts**
After the end of Pouranic period a vast culture of music and arts grew up in India as integral parts of the temple worship. The same culture was propagated by the kings in the royal courts as those notable men were devoted to the deity of the temples. Thus the development of the classical music or Marga sangeet of India lay in the hands ofthe priest classes attached to the temples with the patronage of the kings.
The demonstrations took place both in the temples well as in the royal palaces. These temples and palaces contained spacious hall for staging demonstrations of the music, dance and the theatres. **The kings used to preserve the lines of top ranking artists attached to the temples and courts by providing fixed allowances and rent - free pieces of lands handed over to them for their hereditary possesion and enjoyment. The traditions of Hindu kings partially preserved by the Pathan Emperors and Sultans who used to retain musicians of Indian and Persian culture.**
**Allauddin Khilji **had a very famous Darbar of music, in which Nayak Gopal demonstrated his creative qualities in Dhrupad, while Amir Khusroo showed his remarkable genius in the qawali style of music. These demonstrations were done before distinguished’ people attached to the court, as well as the eminent people of education and culture. The first North Indian music conference was organised by Sultan Hussain Sarki of Jaunpur, who invited many Dhrupadias, Kawals and musicologists, who certified the Ragas made by the Sultan, namely : Jaunpuri tori and Hussaini Kanada as genuine and authentic.
Raja Man Tomar of Gowalior established aii illustrious musical institution containing four great sangeet Nayakas. Raja Man used to call meetings of the great mtisicions for demonstrations of music and discourses on musical theories in the presence of the distinguished people. The golden period of the Hindusthani classical music followed the reign of Raja Man, when Akbar the Great invited Mian Tansen from the court of Raja Ram Baghela to form a musical association containing the nine gems of music. Although Akbar was Mughal by birth, he was a cosmopolitan in his outlook and encouraged all existing religions. He thoroughly revived the temple culture including music and dance and gave the predominant place of Dhrupad in the sphere of classical music.
Although the most elevated specimens of classical music demonstrated by Mian Tansen and other gems were conducted in his special chamber, that is Dewan-e-Khaas attended by talented personages, yet the public obtained opportunities of listening to some of the top class demonstrations in the great public hall, that is Dewan-e-aam. The ideals of the musical Darbar, were followed by ** Mahammad Shah**, the last great Mughal Emperor, as well as by the famous music loving rulers.
The History of the Darbars of Jaipur, Lucknow, Benares, Betia, Bishnupur, Gowalior and lastly of Rampur containing the golden traditions of Mughal court with regard shows to the high standards of music displtaed by the master musicians, who were patronised by the Kings and Nawabs. With the advent of democracy in India and with the progress of education among the masses, the public of this present century are getting more and more music minded. Unfortunately not only the courts of the ruling princes are in desolution, but many important lines of creative musicians are now non-existent due to lack of encouragement as well as accidents and deaths It will go for ever to the credit of the immortal Pandit Vatkhandeji in the annals of Indian music for his great attempt to reconstruct the Hindusthani classical music out of the ruins of the first liquidating princely courts of India. He not only established institutions and colleges for the propagation of classical music, but installed many musicians of well known Gharanas in those institutions, which saved those talented people from pecuniary difficulties. His sincerity of purpose inspired those existing ruling princes like Nawab of Rampur, Gaikowar of Baroda, and a few others who have still been maintaining Darbars of music) to give substantial financial aids to Vatkhandeji, to popularise classical music by organising All India music conferences.
**
Music Conferences**
These conferences were meant for the mass appreciation and understanding of classical music. The music conferences held in Baroda, Delhi, Benaras and Lucknow, were characterized by very high standards of musical demonstrations. The standard of music of those days, was of course, higher than what is prevailing now-a-days. Although people may differ in their opinions, yet the musical standard set up by the **Vocalists** like Alabonde Khan, Nasiruddin Khan, Radhika Goswami, Gopeswar Banerjee, Alladia Khan, Faiaz Khan, Abdul Karim Khan, Chanda Choube and the instrumentalists like Fida Hussain, Enayet Khan, Keramatullah Khan, Barkatullah, Jamaluddin and Hafezali and Allauddin in their best form, as well as the form of the female artists like Kersarbai and Hirabai in their prime, will always be remembered by the posterity.
After the departure of Pandit Vatkhandeji, music conferences in some important centres of India, like Calcutta, Allahabad, Lucknow and Bombay have been organised by the great patrons of music with the donations of rich business men. The people have all along got the chances of listening to the demonstrations of the famous musicians of the day. For some of the musicians there have been extraordinary demands from the box offices as they have earned immense popularity by whatever means. In spite of the desolation of the princely orders and the impoverishment of the music loving Rajas and land holders, the mass contributions and the donations from the businessmen, have maintained the artists of music and even enriched some of the lucky musicianls. But there cannot be any standard of public fancy.
During the later days most of the music conferences have given up holding musical symposiums or discussions on the standards of music for the education of the public, who are often led by the fascinations of advertisements.
** All India Radio & Classical Music**
Recently, during the last few years, the All India Radio has been organising Radio music conferences in the centre, as well as in different important stations, in which the intellectual and educative elements of music are getting access. Specially in Delhi the annual Radio symposiums are tape recorded and broadcast throughout the country. These records will be of extreme worth for the cultural developments of the future. Demonstrations of the Radio music conferences are scheduled in such a way as to give scopes to many musicians of different schools to show their worth. The Selections we done by rotations in a manner by which no particular set of musicians can get under recognition to the detriment of others. The representative music conferences, which are mostly held in Calcutta, should also give proper scopes to the worthy artists. Specially those, who are the torch bearers of great traditions and who suffer much, due to the lack of publicity as they are ignorant of the arts of self advertisement.
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
It is always good to have Faris bhai, sometimes topics miss Faris angle :)
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
I just read in Abraham Eraly's book 'The Mughal Throne' that Akbar was himself a skilled drummer and learned singing from Lal Kalwant, who taught him every breathing and sound that appertains to the Hindi Language. He also composed some Hindi and Persian poetry. One of his composition:
It is not the chain of insanity on the neck
of the afflicted Majnun;
Love hath laid a loving hand on his neck
Re: History of Raga and Sangeet
**Classical Music Gharanas
**
Major Gharanas in Hindustani Classical Music
The gharana concept gained currency only in the nineteenth century when the royal patronage enjoyed by performers weakened. Performers were then compelled to move to urban centres. To retain their respective identities, they fell back on the names of the regions they hailed from. Therefore, even today, the names of many gharanas refer to places. Some of the gharanas well known for singing khayals are : Agra, Gwalior, Patiala (I think Hamid Ali Khan, Shafqat Amanat & Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan belonged to this), Kirana, Indore, Mewati, Sahaswan, Bhendibazar and Jaipur.
Gharanas in Dhrupad singing too came into existence several centuries after their birth. It moved from the temples to concentrate in the royal courts of the north, and finally, in the 18th century, when its popularity began to wane, dhrupad singers dispersed to places like Mathura, Rampur, Jaipur, Varanasi, Darbhanga, Betia, Vishnupur etc.
There are also **gharanas for thumris** – like Banaras. Lucknow, Patiala though another school of thought opines that thumris are devoid of gharana divisions and are only to be associated with certain styles or Baj.
**The concept of hereditary musicians was not confined to vocal music alone. Hence there are also gharanas in instrumental music – sitar, sarode, tabla etc.
**
A gharana also** indicates a comprehensive musicological ideology**. This ideology sometimes changes substantially from one gharana to another. It directly affects the thinking, teaching, performance and appreciation of music.
Musicologists and** musicians have accepted a gharana if it has existed for at least three generations either within the family or through the guru-shishya mode.** The key factor is the style of a musician, which should follow at least one authentic gharana. On the other hand, there may be brilliant musicians with a distinctive style of their own, which need not represent any one gharana. In other words, a musician may form a distinctive style by assimilating a variety of styles. When his sons or disciples continue this style for three or more generations, a new gharana is born.