When did it start?
Does that really exist or its an illusion especially amongst Pakistanis.
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
It's indirectly been there though not recognized as such for over a thousand years. Everytime a Muslim area became popularly self-governing, even while recognising the Caliph, it was being nationalistic.
In its modern form it emerged as a reaction to colonialism.
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
Can't say it better than da man
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
In its modern form it emerged as a reaction to colonialism.
Before it turned into a reaction, it was the by product of the European imperialism.
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
i don't think such concept as Muslim Nationalism exists. it's the sense of Muslim Brotherhood that Islam promotes.
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
Then why do we have so many Muslim nation states today if the idea does not exist?
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
Then why do we have so many Muslim nation states today if the idea does not exist?
these states are there for the reasons we all know...to own a piece of land and to rule over it's people...nothing to do with spirituality or Islam. if it were on true and real Islamic spiritual basis, we wouldn't be seeing Muslims killing Muslims all across Muslim World..
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
these states are there for the reasons we all know...to own a piece of land and to rule over it's people...nothing to do with spirituality or Islam. if it were on true and real Islamic spiritual basis, we wouldn't be seeing Muslims killing Muslims all across Muslim World..
I don't think you understood the OP.
The topic is about the possible origins of Muslim nationalism not Islamic take on it. The fact that we have so many Muslim nation states is a evidence that the idea does exist, maybe not in Islam, but in modern day history and politics - the idea is everything. Islam prohibits criminality of any and every sort but that doesn't mean the concept of Muslim criminals doesn't exit. You see?
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
I don't think you understood the OP.
The topic is about the possible origins of Muslim nationalism not Islamic take on it. The fact that we have so many Muslim nation states is a evidence that the idea does exist, maybe not in Islam, but in modern day history and politics - the idea is everything. Islam prohibits criminality of any and every sort but that doesn't mean the concept of Muslim criminals doesn't exit. You see?
i can agree to that...my point was from Islamic POV. thanx :)
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
You are very welcome.
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
so religion can make different groups of people a single nation? any example from history 
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
Pakistan?
Israel?
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
Pakistan?
and Israel.
The concept miserably failed in Pakistan though. There are races in Pakistan which claim that they are / have been nations since long based on languages.
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
and Israel.
The concept miserably failed in Pakistan though. There are races in Pakistan which claim that they are / have been nations since long based on languages.
The silly server got busy for me. I went back to add Israel after pressing submit.
They are not wrong for saying that, if you exclude the chauvinist
nature of such claims. Indian Subcontinent was a home to many small nations.
The Partition was fundamentally a reaction against British colonialism. It was a movement to bring all these territories and people together raise a nation state. The phenomena moved from defining nations based on common language, culture, race and history to demanding nation states based on territorial control, guarded borders, sovereignty and decision making power in the name of having independent parliaments.
The concept hasn't 'failed' in Pakistan. It just didn’t get executed properly, if only Jinnah had lived a little longer to provide a comprehensive post partition vision and system for Pakistan
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
The silly server got busy for me. I went back to add Israel after pressing submit.
They are not wrong for saying that, if you exclude the chauvinist nature of such claims. Indian Subcontinent was a home to many small nations.
*The Partition was fundamentally a reaction against British colonialism. It was a movement to bring all these territories and people together raise a nation state. The phenomena moved from defining nations based on common language, culture, race and history to demanding nation states based on territorial control, guarded borders, sovereignty and decision making power in the name of having independent parliaments. * The concept hasn't 'failed' in Pakistan. It just didn’t get executed properly, if only Jinnah had lived a little longer to provide a comprehensive post partition vision and system for Pakistan
This common language was not attractive to Bengalis from the first day. They opposed the idea in early days of independence, even under the leadership of Mr Jinah.
Probably, Arabs themselves were always comfortable with the term Arab nation than Muslim nation. There actions are so vague that historians like Karen Armstrong believe that Islam was meant for only Arabs.
Re: History of Muslim Nationalism
I am not sure if Historians have over emphasized and exaggerated the Bengali opposition to Urdu, largely because of what happened later on in the history. I would assume Urdu as a lingua franca must’ve met with some degree of protest lobbying and discontent with other provinces as well. However it has be acknowledged that in the whole mix of political and economical grievances Bangladesh had, the language protest was just an icing on the cake. It was a mere tip of the iceberg, not the whole problem in itself.
As with Karan Armstrong remarks, looks like she skipped a big chunk of knowledge on Arab Nationalism before reaching such a simplified and impressionable opinion. If you look at the origins and the course of Arab Nationalism, it was essentially a revolt against the Ottoman Empire – Muslim rulers who happened to be Turks – hence the Arabs did not feel the need to give a ‘Muslim’ tag to their movement as the people they were conspiring against belonged t the same faith. However, they certainly did use Islam to propagate their ethnic superiority. Therefore, Arab Nationalism was basically ethnicism , it was a nationalism based self invented ideas of racial superiority. Sonething they still haven't let go...
And of course none of that could’ve been possible without the help of the mighty British. The origins of Arab Nationalism lie in Westminster. The entire movement was planned in Whitehall.