Can someone tell me what is the historical origins of area we now call “Punjab”?
If I remember correctly, my teacher in school, explained that it is called “Punjab” because of five rivers that flow through it i.e. Indus, Jehlum, Chenab, Ravi and Satlaj. Is that the real reason for its name?
Punjab is a word of which language? Punjabi?
In which era were the geographic boundries formed? I believe the area was known as “Punjab” even before Muhammad Bin Qasim’s attack on Sindh. Right or wrong?
Before that time (pre-700 AD), was all this area under the control of hindu rulers or some other religion?
What are the origins of Punjabi language? Is it also created like Urdu (a mix of several other languages)?
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Can someone tell me what is the historical origins of area we now call "Punjab"?
If I remember correctly, my teacher in school, explained that it is called "Punjab" because of five rivers that flow through it i.e. Indus, Jehlum, Chenab, Ravi and Satlaj. Is that the real reason for its name?
Punjab is a word of which language? Punjabi?
In which era were the geographic boundries formed? I believe the area was known as "Punjab" even before Muhammad Bin Qasim's attack on Sindh. Right or wrong?
Before that time (pre-700 AD), was all this area under the control of hindu rulers or some other religion?
What are the origins of Punjabi language? Is it also created like Urdu (a mix of several other languages)?
[/QUOTE]
Punjab is a Persian but I suppose also a Punjabi word since Punjabi is composed of many Persian words. It is mixed like Urdu. In fact it's almost a dialect. It seems like hindi/urdu with some different words but then again im just an abcd with tamil roots. Of course chann will come back saying it's a completely separate language knowing how much punjabi pride he has. It was ruled by Hindu Kings and also Persian kings before 700 ad. I believe lower punjab used to part of sindh or the other way around. And it does mean land of five rivers. This is what I know.
Faisal, he history of Punjab (at least documented history) goes back to about 2500 years before Jesus was born. Yes, it is a land of 5 rivers (a Persian word) but it is lot more than just that. The Harapa Culture predates the Aryan invasions, and it is very fascinating. In my readings the main reasons for the demise of cultures (or belief systems) has been due to “metorpolization’ and when that happened, people tended to leave their ‘earthly’ beliefs (gods). That was the reason for the demise of Romans and Greek and the Egyptians. Your question is too broad. Narrow it a bit.
Urdu is a very modern language. It is like a Windows98 compared to Punjabi, that is the mother of all Processors. If you ask my opinion, Urdu is the dirt sieved out of Indo-European languages (with exception of Persian). Urdu is an example of what modern day Marketing can accomplish.
Actully the five rivers on which the name Punjab was based are Ravi, Chenab, Sutlej, Jhelum and Beas. Beas is now in India, hence people in Pakistan dont consider that, otherwise that was indeed the 5th river.
Before Muslims invaded and ruled Punjab in the 6ht/7th centuries, it was the persians I believe who largely ruled the area known as Punjab. Persians were dislodged by Sikander, who defeated Porus to take over the area. He in turn gave way to the Muslim invasions in the 7th century. Sikhs came into power in the 18th century, and ruled for a couple hundred years. And then we know how the partition split punjab into sikh dominated and muslim dominated sections.
It is commonaly accepted that the word is Punj-aab that means five waters(Satluj,Beas,Ravi,Chanab,Jhelum). Before it was called Punjab by Persians it was known as Sampat-Sindhu desh..the country of 7 rivers. The other 2 rivers were Indus and Jamuna(or Sarswati?) on either side of the other 5 rivers.
Punjabi or its previous variations like Prakirt etc have been language of common communication for long time in the area of Punjab. Even the language Punjabi as known today has earliest recorded works as for back as 800 years. In that sense even in its present form it is certainly older than Urdu and may be even Hindi. A language got recognition or progresses if it was used by rulers and army in old days and by business people in modern times. Punjabi was the language of common people who never ruled themselves in old times or did any serious business or technology work these days. So language never got support like Persian or Urdu did. In modern times language of the business people is English so everyone else is equally on the receiving end.
Urdu was brought to Punjab by the British through their desi officials and beaurocrats from the UP/CP area after the annexation of Punjab into the British Empire in 1849. Before that there is no history of Urdu in Punjab amongst Muslims, sikhs or Hindus. Persian was the language of rulers even during the Sikhs time and most learned people of that time wrote in Persian. Guru Gobind Singh and many other sikhs of the time wrote in Persian(and other Indian languages but none in Urdu)
Before Muslims invaded and ruled Punjab in the 6ht/7th centuries, it was the persians I believe who largely ruled the area known as Punjab. Persians were dislodged by Sikander, who defeated Porus to take over the area. He in turn gave way to the Muslim invasions in the 7th century. <<
Porus (Purushothama) was a local king, and not persian. Alexander died around close to 300 BC, and bin Qasim didnt invade until 700 AD, that's a 1000 years.
After Alexander's death, there was a huge power vacuum in the area. Chandragupta Maurya took advantage of this and defeated the greek general Seleucius (sp?), establishing the Maurya empire. Ashoka further expanded the Maurya empire to the north-west. The region then passed onto the rule of the Kushans, out of whom Kanishka conquered further to the north and east. The Kushans gradually lost power on the west to the persian Seulcid kings and the east to the Gupta dynasty. And then Ghazni invaded, followed by Ghori.
Thanks a lot to those who took some time to explain some historical facts.
*Before it was called Punjab by Persians *
So, the name Punjab was given by Persians. Honestly, I never knew that.
NYAhmadi and ChannMahi: My point about urdu was not to compare the two languages, but just to find out which languages combined to form Punjabi. Chann mentioned that its earlier variation was called Prakrit. Is it similar to Sanskrit of modern days, or is that language now completely lost?
So Punjabi language goes back 800+ years, which makes it around 1200 AD.
Chronologically, using queer's sequence of events, it seems the earliest recorded rulers mentioned in this thread are as follows:
First it was local rulers - Porus (hindu?)
then 300 BC - Alexander (Roman)
then again local rulers Maurya empire (hindu?)
then Kushan dynasty (hindu?)
then to the west Seulcid kings (hindu?)
and to the east Gupta dynasty (hindu?)
(The reason I am mentioning religions is to get an idea whether at any time, any Budhists or Jain's or any other religion ruled Punjab or not)
Then Mohammad Ghauri and Mehmud Ghaznavi (?)
In this chronological sequence, when does Muhammad Bin Qasim's attack into Sindh (700 AD) and subsequent entry into Punjab fit in? I think Ghauri and Ghaznavi came after that. And then Mughals, then Sikh rulers and then British. No?
What am I missing here?
Till Mughals upto British when they ruled most of India, it seems Punjab was largely ruled by someone who may not be ruling the rest of sub-continent. Right or wrong?
Faisal, The name Hindustan was also given by Persians. There are many other examples in the world where country names, language names are given by outsiders, America is one. Suppose you always lived inside your home and never went outside...you really won't need to name your home or street..it would be the outsider coming to your home who will need directions and mark it with a name or number to locate it..or give name after he locates it. That will also mean you were really lazy not to get out of your home and look at it from outside:)...that kind of proves our collective laziness.
In the last Millenium, Persian influenced Punjabi more than any other language. Sanskrit influence was long gone , only to re-emerge in some Sikh Gurus' writing, Urdu had a very recent past in punjab, Hindi was not in a position to influence anyway(until after 1947), English gave many words to Punjabi but did not influence as much as Persian. Roughly 20% of the Punjabi words have their origin in Persian. Pick any 5 Punjabi words randomly, 1 of them got to be from Persian(or Arabic and then persian).
Alexandar ruled over Punjab? I thought he won over Porus but then gave him his kingdom back after that famous conversation between the two where Alexandar asked Porus"How should I treat you now(that you are lost)?" Porus replied "like a king treats another king". That does not sound very convincing..Alexandar got to be very gullible.
Alexandar went back hopeless from the banks of Beas river...interestingly it is prounouced Be-aas.
First it was local rulers - Porus (hindu?)
then 300 BC - Alexander (Roman)
then again local rulers Maurya empire (hindu?)
then Kushan dynasty (hindu?)
then to the west Seulcid kings (hindu?)
and to the east Gupta dynasty (hindu?) <<
Wasnt Alexander greek?
The Mauryans were hindu initially, and then buddhists after Ashoka. The Kushans were buddhists. Selucid kings were probably zoroastrian. The Guptas were hindu.
Till Mughals upto British when they ruled most of India, it seems Punjab was largely ruled by someone who may not be ruling the rest of sub-continent. <<
I think this is true of almost any portion of the subcontinent (if you forget Ashoka's empire).
Roman, your name spelt backwards sounds the same, you Moran.
Punjab is one of the earliest civilizations (Indus valley 4-5000 BC) which had well planned streets and a drainage systems. The Aryan (1500 BC) are said to have destroyed this civilization. But the Caucasian Aryans did improve the pigment of the dark skinned
local Dasas and introduced horse and chariot to Punjab. Except for the elephant, we still continue to have all those possession in our villages intact till today - churkha, dhol, earthen ware and ox-cart. Those were the days of the Mahabharta and Ramayana.
Punjab has always been a place of small independent principalities and villages living quietly in their own agrarian way of life. The waters of five rivers irrigated its fertile lands providing a stable means of livelihood. But this prosperity invariably proved to be a liability when its peace was broken by the outside invaders – both from the East and from the West. While the rulers often did cave in easily, brave Punjabis did rise and fight for their land. This is the story of those heroes whom our history has forgotten.
When Alexander (325 BC) wanted to cross river Jhelum, he had to face Poros from Mandi Bahauddin. Poros fought bravely. But eventually, Alexander’s horses won against the Poros’s elephants. Thereafter, they became friends. Alexander finally crossed Jhelum hundreds of miles South at Athara Hazari. For some reason, while the Punjabis still name their sons after Alexander, I have yet to hear some one called Poros. Thereafter, Punjab became a part of the Eastern empires of Chandra Gupta and Ashoka with Taxila becoming a center of Buddhism.
As centuries roll by, we hear about the two folk heroes of Punjab - Raja Rasalu and Puran Bhagat, sons of the Raja of Sialkot (100-200 AD). Raja Rasalu was a handsome prince who dallied with the pretty maidens, went hunting, killed giants, robbed the rich and gave it to the poor. He had a horse ’’fauladi’’ and a parrot ’’Shadi’’ always resting on his shoulder. Puran, the younger brother was more saintly. He rebuffs the advances of his mother-in-law, Leena, and leaves home. He becomes a symbol of goodness and is called Puran Bhagat. And so as the history moves on, Punjab is again broken up into small principalities until conquered by the Gupta empire around 400 AD. This is time of the Puranas.
The next intruders are the Iraqi Arabs (Ommayeds and Abbasis (712 AD) who capture Southern Punjab upto Multan. They rule for 150 years; but Islam comes to Punjab much later through the non-Arab Sufi saints of Turk, Persian and Afghan origin.
After the Arabs, Mahmud of Ghazni (1018 AD) descends from the North West. Raja Jaypal of Shahi Dynasty faces him at Attock. Mahmud has 1500 horses and Jaypal has 300 elephants. It is a bloody fight where Jaypal loses. But Jaypal’s sense of honour and pride is such that instead of returning to Attock, he chooses to burn himself at the funeral pyre. As Mahmood advances, he shows no mercy even the Muslim states of Multan and Talamba. His Turko-Afghan successors like Qutbudin Aiback, Altimush and Razia Sultana are better; and during their time, art and literature flourishes. These are the times of Guru Nanak and Kabir. Data Gunj Bakhsh comes to Lahore with Mahmud Ghazni’s son, who was governor of Lahore.
The next invader Taimur (1370 AD) is held by Shaikha Ghakkar, the Chiefton of Salt Range. Shaikha fights bravely but Taimur prevails. The moment Taimur leaves for Dehli to end the Tughlaq dynasty, Shaikha again captures Lahore. On the way back, Taimur again takes back Lahore but takes with him Shaika’s son Jasrat. On the way to Farghana, Jasrat escapes, returns through the arduous terrain and again re-captures Lahore. During this period, we hear of a peasant revolt led by Sarang (1419).
Then after a 100 years, Babar (1526) comes to defeat the Afghan ruler Ibrahim Lodhi. In his Babar Nama, Babar describes the bravery of the Jats and Gujjars who had fiercely resisted him at Sialkot. Then Dulla Bhatti of Pindi Bhattian revolts and holds against Akbar for ten years. The peasants are asked not to pay the tax and revenue. Finally, Akbar agrees to let the land be a hereditary right, a departure from past where all land belonged to the king.
At the time of petering out of the Mughal empire, Nadir Shah (1736 AD), the Persian ruler, moves into Punjab on his way to Dehli. At the Indus-Jhelum Doab, the Khattars, Ghaebas and Gakkhars fight him. After he crosses Jhelum, the Gondal Rajputs take him on. Najabat, a poet of the time, writes about the accounts of velour by Dhilloo and Saidoo. After crossing Gujrat, when he reaches Chenab, Mirza Qalandar was waiting for him. When he reaches Ravi, Khoja Yaqub is there to fight him. He spares Lahore from rampage. But when he reaches Dehli to put an end the reign of Muhammad Shah Rangeela, he goes to the Jamia Mosque and takes out his sword – a signal for pillage of Dehli. 20,000 are killed and the booty includes the Peacock throne and Koh-e-Nur. Mir Taqi Mir, who was then 16, explains this gruesome brutality in his verses.
Ahmed Shah Abdali (1747), founder of the first Pashtoon state, is the next pesky visitor. Mir Manu fights him and repels him though he manages to capture Sialkot and Pasrur. Finally, Abdali ends the reign of Azuddin Alamgir.
The Punjabis go on aggression only once – when they have their very own empire for forty years under the efficient rule by Ranjit Singh 1799-1839) and the empire extends upto Kabul and Kandhar. After the death of Ranjit Singh, the British find an opportunity to capture Punjab. Ahmed Khan Kharal of Rai Nathoo (Neeli bar between Sahiwal and Multan) at the age of 80 takes up arms against the British in the 1857 mutiny. Then Bhagat Singh (1926) is instrumental in beginning a labour and peasant movement in Lahore. Lala Lajpat Rai, Sher-e-Punjab, loses his life in this struggle. The British radically transform the landscape of Punjab by introducing a canal system, railways and cantonments. They set up seminaries and churches and introduce a new faith in the area.
Punjab became a part of the Western Empires about six times – Greeks, Arabs, Afghans, Turks, Persians and Pashtoons. And it became a part of the Eastern empires about four times – Chandra Gupta, Ashoka, Mughals and British.
Punjab produced brave soldiers like Poros, Jaypal, Ranjit Singh, Shaikha, Jasrat, Dilloo, Saidoo, Ahmed Khan Kharal, Bhagat Singh, Lala Lajpat Rai and Mirza Qalandar. Its romantic heroes like Raja Rasalu, Puran Bhagat, Sarang and Dulla Bhatti live even today in the memory of village folk. Its Sufi saints and poets, who preached a message of love, include Amir Khusrao, Guru Nanak, Kabir, Data Gunj Baksh, Baba Fareed, Bahaudin Zakaria, Bulleh Shah, Sultan Bahu, Mian Mohammad and Shah Hussain. Not only great men but the Punjabi folk lore has strong willed women who dominated their beloveds – in the tales of Heer Ranjha, Sassi Punnu, Mirza Sahiban and Sohni Mahiwal.
All invaders who came to this land had one basic human failing – a greed for wealth. And their wrath was indiscriminate – irrespective of religion, race or creed. The attacks and occupation by the foreign rulers has had a deep impact on the psyche of the Punjabis – their threshold for subjugation has increased. They continue to readily accept a man on the horse back the moment he appears on the horizon.
Re: historical origins of area we now call "Punjab"
Great topic!!
real informative!
For some reason, while the Punjabis still name their sons after Alexander, I have yet to hear some one called Poros.
Sikander is a name not only common in Punjabi community only.
and Poros is the Greek version of Purushothama, and itz long gone days when ppl had names like that!
and wasnt Poros from the region that is now Sindh??
Its Sufi saints and poets, who preached a message of love, include **Amir Khusrao, Guru Nanak, **Kabir, Data Gunj Baksh, Baba Fareed, Bahaudin Zakaria, Bulleh Shah, Sultan Bahu, Mian Mohammad and Shah Hussain.
Amir Khusrao and Kabir were Punjabis?!!!
wasnt Kushrao's father an Afghani and his mother the daughter of some Mughal commander?? i maybe wrong too1
and wasnt Kabir from the banks of Vanarsi??
Re: historical origins of area we now call “Punjab”
The Sikh rule had never extended beyond Jamrud, a small town near Peshawar. No Sikh army ever stepped foot into Kabul or Kandahar. Such a short-lived rule and that too just over the tiny Peshawar valley and so much hoopla.