"Hindus with one God"

[Sharaabi]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

Are you being sarcastic, coz these are ofcourse not the teachings of the Prophet and ofcourse above all the teachign of the Quran to dis respect other religion.

You're mistaken. Respecting other religions is not part of this Deen. Respecting any thing means that you're approving its validity, to some degree....and that is Haraam, because Allah clearly states in the Quran that no other religion will be accepted by you except Islam.

Secondly, if respecting other religions would be part of this Deen, Ibrahim (as) would have never broken those idols, which were being worshipped by his people, and leaving the chief one intact only to ridicule it later on.

Thirdly our Prophet (sas) would not have broken idols in Makkah.

Respecting other religions comes under one situation only, i.e. when Islam prevails, and the Shariah becomes the code of life in the land. Once this is achieved, than all minorities are allowed to worship their faith, in their temples, and no one is ridiculed.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

You're mistaken. Respecting other religions is not part of this Deen. Respecting any thing means that you're approving its validity, to some degree....and that is Haraam, because Allah clearly states in the Quran that no other religion will be accepted by you except Islam.

Secondly, if respecting other religions would be part of this Deen, Ibrahim (as) would have never broken those idols, which were being worshipped by his people, and leaving the chief one intact only to ridicule it later on.

Thirdly our Prophet (sas) would not have broken idols in Makkah.

Respecting other religions comes under one situation only, i.e. when Islam prevails, and the Shariah becomes the code of life in the land. Once this is achieved, than all minorities are allowed to worship their faith, in their temples, and no one is ridiculed.

I referred to the bold part.

Let me elaborate to co-exist i.e. muslims and non-muslims we have to respect each other in terms of what they follow and what we do. Probably i wasnt able to put things across properly.

Take Prophet as an eg. he respected teh Jews, christians though he was being ridiculed, the sahabas were commanded only to guide and not to disrespect any religion. (Here respect doesnt mean in the sense i agrre with your religion and i also agree with my religion).

Its mutual admiration towards human being. I hope i have made my point. If i have understood the way you have written then i have to kill each and every non-muslim due to disrespect fo there religion.

Did you forget the verse 'to me is my religion and to you is yours'

Other verse of the Quran

*006.108 *

SHAKIR: And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.

Let me quote other verse of the Quran

016.125 *
**SHAKIR:* Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.

[ravage]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

You're mistaken. Respecting other religions is not part of this Deen. Respecting any thing means that you're approving its validity, to some degree....and that is Haraam, because Allah clearly states in the Quran that no other religion will be accepted by you except Islam.

I dont regard your views as valid in the least. They are extremely revisionist, frequently dont make logical coherence within one post (as in this one) and are generally tending towards the most intolerant view possible.

However I manage to live without disrespecting yourself or your views (barring this one occasion). Disagreement is not the same as disrespect, something you would do well to realise.

[quote]

Secondly, if respecting other religions would be part of this Deen, Ibrahim (as) would have never broken those idols, which were being worshipped by his people, and leaving the chief one intact only to ridicule it later on.
**
Thirdly our Prophet (sas) would not have broken idols in Makkah.
**
Respecting other religions comes under one situation only, i.e. when Islam prevails, and the Shariah becomes the code of life in the land. Once this is achieved, than all minorities are allowed to worship their faith, in their temples, and no one is ridiculed.
[/QUOTE]

If respect only comes when Shariah becomes the code of life, why did the Prophet break the idols? Surely Islam had prevailed in Makkah by then.

The example of Kaaba is an exceptional one, for we believe it to be specifically Allah's house, very different from any other place, thereby the existence of idols there was immensely different from the existence of idols in any other place. Now dont say every place is Allah's for then you could just do hajj in your bed.

[Sharaabi]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

*006.108 *

SHAKIR: And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.

Jazakallah khairun, for the correction. The Ayaah was enough.

Tafsir of the Ayaah:

[quote]

Allah prohibits His Messenger and the believers from insulting the false deities of the idolators, although there is a clear benefit in doing so. Insulting their deities will lead to a bigger evil than its benefit, for the idolators might retaliate by insulting the God of the believers, Allah, none has the right to be worshipped but He. Ali bin Abi Talhah said that IbnAbbas commented on this Ayah [6:108]; "They (disbelievers) said, `O Muhammad! You will stop insulting our gods, or we will insult your Lord.' Thereafter, Allah prohibited the believers from insulting the disbelievers' idols,

                                                                     فَيَسُبُّواْ اللَّهَ عَدْواً بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ

(lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge.)'' Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Mamar said that Qatadah said, "Muslims used to insult the idols of the disbelievers and the disbelievers would retaliate by insulting Allah wrongfully without knowledge. Allah revealed,

وَلاَ تَسُبُّواْ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ

(And insult not those whom they worship besides Allah.)'' On this same subject -- abandoning what carries benefit to avert a greater evil - it is recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah said,

«مَلْعُونٌ مَنْ سَبَّ وَالِدَيْه»

(Cursed is he who insults his own parents!) They said, "O Allah's Messenger! And how would a man insult his own parents'' He said,

يَسُبُّ أَبَا الرَّجُلِ فَيَسُبُّ أَبَاهُ وَيَسُبُّ أُمَّهُ فَيَسُبُّ أُمَّه
(He insults a man's father, and that man insults his father, and insults his mother and that man insults his mother.)

taken from: Tafsir ibn Kathir
[/quote]

But this only refers to not insulting, and in no way implies that one should start showing any undue respect for false religions.

[Sharaabi]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

ravage, while what you said about the Kabaah is true, there are many other examples that i can use to prove my point, but you'd have a hard time believing those...cause you happen to belong to that particular group of so called muslims who dont believe in any of the valid fiqhs, so lets just concentrate on the example i mentioned from the Quran...the one you managed to skip oh so cleverly...the one about Ibrahim (as) breaking the idols.

[hareem01]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

I referred to the bold part.

Let me elaborate to co-exist i.e. muslims and non-muslims we have to respect each other in terms of what they follow and what we do. Probably i wasnt able to put things across properly.

Take Prophet as an eg. he respected teh Jews, christians though he was being ridiculed, the sahabas were commanded only to guide and not to disrespect any religion. (Here respect doesnt mean in the sense i agrre with your religion and i also agree with my religion).

Its mutual admiration towards human being. I hope i have made my point. If i have understood the way you have written then i have to kill each and every non-muslim due to disrespect fo there religion.

Did you forget the verse 'to me is my religion and to you is yours'

Other verse of the Quran

*006.108 *

SHAKIR: And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.

Let me quote other verse of the Quran

016.125 * **SHAKIR:* Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.

JazakAllah, I think this is a good enough clarification for anyone to understand your point easily.

[indopak]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

Exactly being a good human is very much necessary no matter what faith we follow. We dont say we follow Islam, and still involved in treachery, robbery and same goes with other religions too. ** Ofcourse in Islam believing in one God is the most important aspect**, but by believing i include each and everything i.e. love, fear for God.

but dear slaveofallaah, why isn't anybody reading the other posts where it has been said countless times that even in Hinduism the belief in one supreme God is there, the cross(christianity) and idols(hinduism) are just used as a means to get a human beings thinking about God. Why isn't anybody getting that though?

[ravage]

Re: “Hindus with one God”

@Sharaabi

ravage, while what you said about the Kabaah is true, there are many other examples that i can use to prove my point, but you’d have a hard time believing those…cause you happen to belong to that particular group of so called muslims who dont believe in any of the valid fiqhs, so lets just concentrate on the example i mentioned from the Quran…the one you managed to skip oh so cleverly…the one about Ibrahim (as) breaking the idols.

There were things Prophets did, and there are things prescribed for the rest of us who dont have a direct line to Allah. If you did everything Prophets did then you would be able to marry more than four wives at one time, you would be able to kill children because they would grow up to be evil. You give the example of Hazrat Ibrahim, can you tell me whether the followers of Ibrahim were instructed to break idols like he did?

The Prophet co-existed with Christians and Jews and idolaters before and after the conquest of Mecca. Here is one example of peace treaty with a Christian tribe where it is specified in the treaty that no churches will be harmed (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/019.sat.html#019.3035)

Muslims conquered Jerusalem within the time of the Caliphs you hold in esteem. Were the many Christian and Jewish churches and synagogues not left standing? Why didnt Hazrat Umar choose to follow the Prophet’s and Hazrat Ibrahim’s example then?

[ravage]

Re: “Hindus with one God”

@Sharaabi

ravage, while what you said about the Kabaah is true, there are many other examples that i can use to prove my point, but you’d have a hard time believing those…cause you happen to belong to that particular group of so called muslims who dont believe in any of the valid fiqhs, so lets just concentrate on the example i mentioned from the Quran…the one you managed to skip oh so cleverly…the one about Ibrahim (as) breaking the idols.

There were things Prophets did, and there are things prescribed for the rest of us who dont have a direct line to Allah. If you did everything Prophets did then you would be able to marry more than four wives at one time, you would be able to kill children because they would grow up to be evil, and attempting to slit the throats of family members after dreams would be a plausible course of action for you. You give the example of Hazrat Ibrahim, can you tell me whether the followers of Ibrahim were instructed to break idols like he did?

The Prophet co-existed with Christians and Jews and idolaters before and after the conquest of Mecca. Here is one example of peace treaty with a Christian tribe where it is specified in the treaty that no churches will be harmed (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/019.sat.html#019.3035)

Muslims conquered Jerusalem within the time of the Caliphs you hold in esteem. Were the many Christian and Jewish churches and synagogues not left standing? Why didnt Hazrat Umar choose to follow the Prophet’s and Hazrat Ibrahim’s example then?

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

but dear slaveofallaah, why isn't anybody reading the other posts where it has been said countless times that even in Hinduism the belief in one supreme God is there, the cross(christianity) and idols(hinduism) are just used as a means to get a human beings thinking about God. Why isn't anybody getting that though?

Dear sis,

I agree with your point, since i have lived in India all my friends do say they are just a way of getting to God, i forgot the exact word the spirit within it.
Now let me not go any further. Do you know an amulet or taweez.

Now let me assume, that I wear an amulet in which supposedly the Quranic ayat are written this is for protection (I know you mean slightly different).
Now one day i meet with an accident and supposedly thats the only day i havent put on my amulet. My mind hits me oh today i did not wear an amulet thats why i met with an accident. Remember in the amulet I have quranic ayah.

Fantastic this is human nature to be superstitious, now I am claiming please read this one carefully that Allaah/God was the reason behind my accident and this amulet (containing quranic ayah) could have saved me.

Now i am inferring this amulet could have saved me with an accident where as Allaah made me meet with an accident. Now this is important to understand and this itself is called shirk i.e. Association partners with God. My conclusion is Allaah/God is the one to harm and provide benefit to us.

My assumption here is you believe in destiny.

Now consider the point of believing in one God i.e. the creator, omnipotent God which we all believe in. But the difference comes Muslims believe there are no mediators to God and Hindus though do believe in God consider they are mediators to reach God.

Now the point to understand is even the Makkans or Mushriks or disbelievers also believed in Allaah but believed they are partners to God i.e. similar to hinduism whre ther is no image of Brahma (considered a supreme God), even Allaah had no image but the Makkans believed that Allaah could be reached through the mediators as they considered the that they were not worshipping the idols but the spirit withing those idols.

This was the belief of the Makkans, please understand i am not **condemning **the belief but just trying to explain through similarities. Before i sign of let me quote a couple of verses from the Holy Quran.

010.031 *
**SHAKIR:* Say: Who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth? Or Who controls the hearing and the sight? And Who brings forth the living from the dead, and brings forth the dead from the living? And Who regulates the affairs? Then they will say: Allah. Say then: Will you not then guard (against evil)?

029.063 *
**SHAKIR:* And if you ask them Who is it that sends down water from the clouds, then gives life to the earth with it after its death, they will certainly say, Allah. Say: All praise is due to Allah. Nay, most of them do not understand.

The above two verses were used to argue against the Makkans if you read through it the Makkans believed in teh supreme God.

[Tariq_Akhtar]

Re: “Hindus with one God”

@SlaveofAllaah

I referred to the bold part.

Let me elaborate to co-exist i.e. muslims and non-muslims we have to respect each other in terms of what they follow and what we do. Probably i wasnt able to put things across properly.

Take Prophet as an eg. he respected teh Jews, christians though he was being ridiculed, the sahabas were commanded only to guide and not to disrespect any religion. (Here respect doesnt mean in the sense i agrre with your religion and i also agree with my religion).

Its mutual admiration towards human being. I hope i have made my point. If i have understood the way you have written then i have to kill each and every non-muslim due to disrespect fo there religion.

Did you forget the verse ‘to me is my religion and to you is yours’

Other verse of the Quran

*006.108 *

SHAKIR: And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.

Let me quote other verse of the Quran

*016.125 *
SHAKIR: Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.

I like this one! I wish all religiouso will understand this

[hareem01]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

religiouso
Whats this bro*?*

[Monk]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

This is what someone said in describing Islam in South Asia. We are culturally almost identical with our Hindu friends, the only difference being that we worship one God and not a combination of dieties.

I mean I was thinking abt it, and looking back at my life, it makes so much sense. Our wedding traditions, even to the red color of the bridal dress, is Hindu culture. Our adoption of castism (so and so is a jaat, or a memon ect ect)....

Checking the stars, muscially, oh just so similar.

We remain identical to our Hindu neighbours, and are little more then a loosely converted bunch.

I have no issue with that, (you will recall my interest in vedic astrology ect) as Islam doesnt have one conformist culture (ie you can keep the indigneous culture of a land and still adopt Islam wholly), but I was wondering what you ppl would make of it.

I request that our Hindu friends here especially give me there views.

Try making sense of that
Hindu women dance-show their belly etc.
hindu ancient god/godess picture found in caves with boobs/penis.

YET
no sex befor marriage, north indian women cover their head???
That means muslim influence on hindu society.
So we both adapted thigs from each other, Big deal?

We should not become victum of catchy phrases like "muslims with multiple gods"
or hindus with one god

[indopak]

Re: “Hindus with one God”

I would think that since all religions believe in that same supreme God that that would be enough for all human beings to coexist with each other happily and yet we somehow find tiny tiny differences just so we would have an excuse to kill each other.:hinna:

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

Exactly, thats most important let us first believe in the Supreme God, come into commonalities we can sort out the difference later. I agree with you.
There is a verse in the Quran.

003.064YUSUFALI: Say: "**O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; **that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

[indopak]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

^ so Allah is God and God is Allah right? Or is Allah above God according to Quran....just wondering.

[Monk]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

^ so Allah is God and God is Allah right? Or is Allah above God according to Quran....just wondering.

hahahahahaha
yes allah is God.
and We don't believe on above and below any ways. its matter of right and wrong

[Tariq_Akhtar]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

religiouso Whats this bro*?*

just my attempt to distinguish people of varying degrees of religiousness, which is something like this:

non-believers
closet believers
non-ritualist believers
practioners
aggressive practitioners
extremists

the religiouso are mostly aggressive practioners but span a bit of practioners and extremists. they try to influence others whereas believers and most practitioners just keep it to themselves and not try to convert others.

I don't like using the terms islamists and jihadists and terrorists since not all extremists resort to bombings. islamist seems to be a meaningless term (or atleast I don't understand what that means) and terrorists ofcourse have little to do with religion, in spite of what they claim to

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

^ so Allah is God and God is Allah right? Or is Allah above God according to Quran....just wondering.

Exactly Allaah in Arabic means God. Even the arab christians say the same.
If you read the Arabic bible or refer to oxford dictionary.

[hareem01]

Re: "Hindus with one God"

just my attempt to distinguish people of varying degrees of religiousness, which is something like this:

non-believers closet believers non-ritualist believers practioners aggressive practitioners extremists

the religiouso are mostly aggressive practioners but span a bit of practioners and extremists. they try to influence others whereas believers and most practioners just keep it to themselves and not try to convert others.

ok