mallik kashmiri pundits out of kashmir and 20 million bangaldeshi is
in india.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
First of all are you justifying the BJP-RSS-VHP-Bajrang Dal campaign of mass murder of Muslims and persecution of Christians?
Was the genocide of tens of thousands of Sikhs during the 1980's a policy of appeasment by previous governments? Is the slaughter of some 80,000 Kashmiri Muslims a policy of appeasment started by previous governments? Has the killing of of upto 10,000 Christians in Nagaland also been an example of past government's appeasment policies? Indeed was the mass slaughter of thousands upon thousands of Muslims launched across India after Ayodhya also appeasing minorties?
[/QUOTE]
nobody is trying to justify murder, whether by bjp or by congress or anybody else.
i was just trying tell u about the circumstances that led to the violence.
india has always had a history of such revenge killings. even back in 1948 when gandhiji was killed, brahmins were hunted down.(gandhiji was killed by a brahmin). there is no genocide in india. all the cases that u have mentioned are separatist movements.there is no proof of the majority of the people in the concerned areas supporting these separatist movements.
if there was a genocide of sikhs, how come punjab is peaceful now? how do u explain the presence of punjabis throughout the country? how do u explain the fact that a sikh was the president of the country(that tooo in the period that u mentioned)?
Nagaland could have declared independence in 1962 when india had no military presence in the NE of the country. but then it realised that an independent nagaland would come under the influence of china.the chinese repression of tibet made them stop their call for independence.
Munna
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by munnabhai:
nobody is trying to justify murder, whether by bjp or by congress or anybody else.
i was just trying tell u about the circumstances that led to the violence.
india has always had a history of such revenge killings. even back in
[/QUOTE]
You talked about "appeasing minorities" leading to the rise of the BJP-RSS, and that seems like a justification for the rise of such fanatics if not their acts. You may call them revenge killings but it seem most of the killings have been of Sikhs, Muslims and Christians before the coming to power of the BJP-RSS - is that what you call appeasment of the minorities? Most of the states and illegally occupied lands that have and are continuing to fight for separation from India are non-Hindu states - Muslim-majority occupied Kashmir, Sikh-majority Punjab, Christian-majority Nagaland and other Christian-majority states and areas in the North East.
Were the thousands and thousands of Muslims killed across India after Ayodhya killed because they were demading separation from India, or merely because of their religion?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
You talked about "appeasing minorities" leading to the rise of the BJP-RSS, and that seems like a justification for the rise of such fanatics if not their acts. You may call them revenge killings but it seem most of the killings have been of Sikhs, Muslims and Christians before the coming to power of the BJP-RSS - is that what you call appeasment of the minorities? Most of the states and illegally occupied lands that have and are continuing to fight for separation from India are non-Hindu states - Muslim-majority occupied Kashmir, Sikh-majority Punjab, Christian-majority Nagaland and other Christian-majority states and areas in the North East.
Were the thousands and thousands of Muslims killed across India after Ayodhya killed because they were demading separation from India, or merely because of their religion?
[/QUOTE]
Malikbhai, u r so blinded by hatred that u cannot see facts clearly.
first of all i would like to clarify that i do not support any fundamentalist org.-be it the vhp or any other org. for years the congress govt followed a policy of appeasement of minorities. this made hindus feel like second-class citizens in their own land. now, if the only organizations that stood up for the majority are fundamentalist in nature, even they are bound to get the support of the majority. the majority has no alternative. and i once again assert that there is no genocide in india.
Sikhs were killed because of the separatist movement in punjab.
Christians were killid in nagaland for their separatist movement.
same is the case with kashmir
if the people involved in a separatist movement are from a particular community, it is obvious that only those people will die.
other than nagaland, mizoram and meghalaya both have christian majority. they live quite peacefully. that u have no answer for any of the questions i raised in my previous post suggests that your argument is running out of steam.
4 mislims, 1 sikh, and 1 dalit have served as president in india. how can anyone claim that the minorities are repressed in india?
looking forward to your reply,
Munna
I am saying this from 1st hand knowledge: there is no truth behind saying Hindus throw Muslims out of business. Quite the contrary is what I have seen - Numerous businesses have been established, houses bought and entire towns and villages turned into Muslim dominated areas within last 15 years based on capital generated from Gulf job repatriations as well as genuine enterprise. I have seen this in many states, not just Kerala.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by aravamudhan: *
I am saying this from 1st hand knowledge: there is no truth behind saying Hindus throw Muslims out of business. Quite the contrary is what I have seen - Numerous businesses have been established, houses bought and entire towns and villages turned into Muslim dominated areas within last 15 years based on capital generated from Gulf job repatriations as well as genuine enterprise. I have seen this in many states, not just Kerala.
[/QUOTE]
the matter of fact is that whatever money muslims have made in india is because of working in muslim countries thats gulf and the wealth that they make there is often envied by some hindus who then use these anti muslim riots to undo the years of hard work. there have been well planned attacks on muslims of bhatkal which is a properous muslim city in south india . there have been anti muslim voilence in kerala too but because muslims form almost 25% of the population in kerala and the muslim league is potent force there is no such situation like gujrat in kerala
kabir do you live in fear ? if you get a chnace you will leave the country.
do you feel there is no hope of living there ?
And I haven’t even asked you why Christian churches are burned, nuns raped and priests murdered in an anti-Christian camapign instigated by the same BJP-RSS lot.
Now you keep on going on about Hindu’s being treated as second-class citizens by previous governments thereby justifying the rise of the BJP-RSS, but you still have not adequately explained how since 1947 hundreds of thousands of Muslims, Sikhs and Christians have been killed across India, not Hindu’s. Is killing Muslims, Sikhs and Christians in such large numbers appeasing them? Does invading, destroying and pillaging their holy shrines i.e. the Golden Temple, Babri Masjid, burning churches also amount to the appeasment of minorities?
You still have not explained how the fact is that the majority of separatist movements in India are from non-Hindu majority states and illegally occupied regions i.e. Occupied Kashmir, Punjab, Nagaland and Mizoram etc. Also you forgot to answer why thousands and thousands of Muslims killed across India after Ayodhya - was that because they were demading separation from India, or merely because of their religion?
u keep harping about the killings of people from muslims, christians and sikhs. as i have told u earlier, india has a history of sectarian violence. u come up with specific events and i will give u an explaination for each of them. i agree that there are separatist movements in the NE but then the majority doesn’t support these movements. most of the movements in the NE are for the formation of new provinces(that we call states) or for the reorganization of states.
and i tell u once again:
Punjab-peaceful. one of the most prosperous states in india. even the article that u provided a link to says the same thing. read it first.
Nagaland- returning to peace. successful talks between NSCN and govt. in India for the first time.
Mizoram - peaceful since a long time. the separatist problem was solved a long time age by creation of a state. get your facts right man.
Muslims were killed after Ayodhya-1992. but so were hindus. they were all communal riots. there was violence from both hindus and muslims. get your facts right.
the voilence against christians has 2 faces. one that some illegal organizations wanted to give a bad name to the govt. in cases when there has been violence by fundamentalist organizations, it has been because of the malpractices engaged in by the church for converting the tribals in those places. i do not condone this violence. the culprits will be caught and punished in acordance with the law of the land. but the victims must also take the blame for indulging in activities incomaptible with their positions.
and golden temple? terrorists were holed up in there.
have u forgotten charar-e- sharief where your hero mast gul set fire to the shrine before escaping?
Munna.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by munnabhai: *
..even back in 1948 when gandhiji was killed, brahmins were hunted down.(gandhiji was killed by a brahmin)..
[/QUOTE]
Please tell us how the Brahmins, have treated the Dalits, Sudhras and all other low caste people.
While you are trying to answer that, maybe you could tell us why the Brahmin conspirators against Gandhi are now being eulogised.
to 2born....
dont mix issues. here we r discussing what u people r calling genocide and what not. start another thread for another issue. not that i dont have answers. but i chose not to answer at this point and in this thread.
Munna
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by munnabhai: *
...dont mix issues...
[/QUOTE]
Munna pai ji, you mentioned this issue and I quoted you on it. If you want to run away from it, we will understand :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 2bornot2b: *
Munna pai ji, you mentioned this issue and I quoted you on it. If you want to run away from it, we will understand :)
[/QUOTE]
cool. if u cant continue one argument start another one. if your opponent refuses to change the topic, accuse him of running away. looking at the number of posting u have made, i expected better from u.
Munna
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by munnabhai: *
..cool. if u cant continue one argument start another one...
[/QUOTE]
Munna pai ji, kew ghusa kartay ho :) You mentioned the issue and I quoted you on it. If you now don't want to answer, that's ok, we understand :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 2bornot2b: *
Munna pai ji, kew ghusa kartay ho :) You mentioned the issue and I quoted you on it. If you now don't want to answer, that's ok, we understand :)
[/QUOTE]
well the heat of the debate got better of me there. :)
the point i was making is that i answered most of your questions. if u still had any questions, i am ready to answer them. iwas trying to create a clearer picture of india in the minds of friends on this forum.
i think that all the communal riot thing is reated by the politicians for their vested interests.
Munna.
I was stating my experince and what I have seen in person. I lived in India in three different parts of the country for 20+ years, both in small towns, village as well mega metros. DIdn't witness one case of Hindu or Muslim atrocity. Ofcourse in a large country there will be unfortunate incidents. Things like Godhra happen because some politician mishandles and external miscreants fan flames. If rest of world has 1/100 of Indian tolerance, this would be a better planet
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by aravamudhan: *
.. If rest of world has 1/100 of Indian tolerance, this would be a better planet...
[/QUOTE]
Typical Hinduvta. Try telling that to the families of the thousands of Muslims burnt to death, over a hundred thousand Muslims still languishing in the refugee camps of India, and the Muslim women that had their womb violated and their unborn babies ripped apart!!.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 2bornot2b: *
Typical Hinduvta. Try telling that to the families of the thousands of Muslims burnt to death, over a hundred thousand Muslims still languishing in the refugee camps of India, and the Muslim women that had their womb violated and their unborn babies ripped apart!!.
[/QUOTE]
they are seeking justice in india not apealing to people like
you who only see a oppurtunity to spread the riots to whole country.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
they are seeking justice in india not apealing to people like
you who only see a oppurtunity to spread the riots to whole country.
[/QUOTE]
HOW many secular hindus have come to the rescue of muslim victims?
how many tasleema nasreens are there in india? how many so called secular hindus helped muslims?
infact the murderers were brought back to power with a thumping majority
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kabir: *
..infact the murderers were brought back to power with a thumping majority
[/QUOTE]
Indeed.