HINDUS drive Muslims out of business.

Mr. IMRAN KHAN was seen lining up for an autograph from the Modi Butcher

When did this happen? :-) Or are you referring to the fact that he was in India invited to a conference where Modi was also present.

I think he showed graceful calm, when Pakistan lost their match in cricket & even the Indian "leaders" were dancing themselves silly.

Anyway, from the News it seems that the Muslims in India are persecuted & they are being alienated from the main stream life of India. India like the rest of the world is moving towards 'right' in their attitude.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
Mr. IMRAN KHAN was seen lining up for an autograph from the Modi Butcher.

[/QUOTE]

Next we know you'll say Modi is Imran's role model. You guys never cease to amaze me. This Imran, in his heyday hardly gave any autograph, much less take one. :p

what if modi becomes pm would musharuff deal with him or want to talk to him?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
what if modi becomes pm....
[/QUOTE]

So you think Modi the genocidal butcher has a chance of becoming the Indian PM?

There are some shocking facts in the HRW report linked earlier in this thread:-

  • One year after the beginning of communal violence in Gujarat that claimed over 2,000 lives, there have been no convictions of those responsible and little in the way of promised relief for victims, Human Rights Watch said today.

  • According to local activists, those who remain in jail largely belong to Dalit (so-called untouchable), Muslim or tribal communities

  • Witnesses who initially came forward to file complaints and identify their attackers have since been harassed, threatened or bribed into turning hostile on the witness...

  • Incidents of communal violence continue to be reported almost on a daily basis in Gujarat. Despite assertions to the contrary by the state government, the situation is far from "normal."

Secularlism in Gujrat has truly been destroyed, and seems very much on the way out if it ever really existed.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
There are some shocking facts in the HRW report linked earlier in this thread:-

  • Incidents of communal violence continue to be reported almost on a daily basis in Gujarat. Despite assertions to the contrary by the state government, the situation is far from "normal." [/QUOTE]

Yet the Indian govt has the audacity to continue calling itself secular. The Hindu murderers that burnt thousands of Muslims and sent over a hundred thousand Muslims to the refugee camps are still in power - with increased majority!!

An article worth reading about ‘Ethnic cleansing by India’s nationalists’.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/geted.pl5?eo20030302a1.htm

By B. GAUTAM
Special to The Japan Times

MADRAS, India – A homicide is the murder of an individual. A genocide is the murder of an ethnicity. The purpose of a genocide is beyond doubt: cleansing society of what the powers that be consider undesirable. History’s most famous – or infamous – purge was carried out in Nazi Germany. Adolf Hitler sent 6 million Jews to the gas chamber in the evil hope of ridding his nation of an “inferior race.” He believed in Aryan supremacy.

There have been many other brutal attempts at annihilation. In the closing years of the 1800s, Armenians carried out mass killings in eastern Turkey. This was followed by a tit-for-tat attempt at wiping out Armenians in Ottoman Turkey around 1915.

Cambodian dictator Pol Pot butchered nearly 2 million people between 1975 and 1979. The victims were thought to be ideologically “incompatible” (read: intellectuals) with the savage regime.

Ethnic cleansing can take many forms. We know what happened in former Yugoslavia, and are fully aware of what has been going on in Tibet, where a crude method to alter the demographic ratio continues. Earlier, China’s notorious relocation of the learned – “banishment” to a life of rural hardship – during Mao Zedong’s terrifying Cultural Revolution has been well documented.

But there are some cases of ethnic washing that are either not known or undertaken in a seemingly oblique manner. In India, there is understandable concern over the treatment of its 140 million Muslims, the largest number in one country after Indonesia. There has been – under the present Hindu nationalistic Bharatiya Janata Party, or BJP – a systematic, but subtle kind of cleansing. The worst sufferers have been Muslims followed by Christians.

Besides the Australian Christian missionary and his two very young sons who were torched alive in the eastern Indian state of Orissa some years ago, there have been cases of nuns being assaulted, even raped, and churches being desecrated.

Muslims have had to face far greater wrath. The historic Bhabri Mosque was pulled down, stone by stone, by a fanatical Hindu mob in 1992. The carnage early last year in the western Indian state of Gujarat, where nearly 1,000 Muslims were killed and their property destroyed by Hindu rioters in a campaign clearly led by the state administration headed by the BJP, will remain as a terrible blot on India’s image.

In other incidents that have been both overt and covert, important Hindu leaders belonging to quasipolitical organizations such as the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, or RSS (the BJP owes its origins to this body), and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad have been “commanding” India’s Muslims to either fall into line with the wishes of the majority Hindu community or get out.

The BJP has also been guilty of trying to erase history and, in the process, reducing eminent, world class writers – such as D.D. Kosambi, Romila Thapar and Irfan Habib – to leftwing ideologues. Their work is not only recognized by leading European historians, but has also enriched India’s knowledge of its fascinating past.

Two examples illuminate how the research of Indian historians has been distorted only to suit the BJP’s line of thinking. Some school books have completely omitted even a cursory reference to Mahatma Gandhi’s assassination soon after India’s 1947 Independence. Why? Because the assassin was a staunch Hindu and RSS member.

What is more, some textbooks have tried to mess around with proven facts about the ancient Indus Valley civilization. The BJP has been claiming that another community was living on the Indian subcontinent long before the Aryans (foreigners) came in via the northern mountain passes to set up home in Harappa and Mohenjodaro, considered the cradles of the Indus civilization.

What alarms rationalists and moderates today is the tendency of the Westernized and upwardly mobile classes in India to buy the BJP’s arguments, to blindly believe the fallacious and pernicious theories peddled by rabid Hindu outfits. These groups of men and women uphold what they term Hindu majoritarianism. A case in point is the overwhelming victory for the BJP in the Gujarat Assembly elections following the mayhem of early last year.

Sadly, these hawkish Hindus are bent on defying the forces of history. They have utter disregard for the process of evolution that ultimately saw the emergence of the modern Indian society. Hindu and Muslim rulers may have fought over temples and mosques, but their conflicts were often political rather than religious. The places of worship were mere symbols of state power and authority – not instruments of individual or community faith and beliefs.

Thus, Akbar, one of the more renowned Mogul kings in India, felt proud of his Hindu advisers, and even founded a new religion that borrowed liberally from Hinduism. Ordinary Muslims and Hindus coexisted for centuries in this country with little rancor toward the other’s way of life. Together with Buddhists and Christians, they built the social and cultural landscape of India beginning as early as the 13th century.

Today, the BJP and its band of loyal followers are in a mood to negate all this by suggesting that religious minorities are but guests who reside in India at the will and pleasure of the majority Hindus. There is also an underlying move to delink Muslims and Christians from India’s national identity. If this is not ethnic cleansing, albeit at an intellectual and ideological level, then what is?

It is tragic that a nation of a billion people, set to achieve great economic prosperity through globalization and liberalization, ought to be pushing minorities to the margins of a society that the minorities also helped to create. Surely, this will cause greater discord and rifts ahead.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by 2bornot2b:

What alarms rationalists and moderates today is the tendency of the Westernized and upwardly mobile classes in India to buy the BJP's arguments, to blindly believe the fallacious and pernicious theories peddled by rabid Hindu outfits. These groups of men and women uphold what they term Hindu majoritarianism. A case in point is the overwhelming victory for the BJP in the Gujarat Assembly elections following the mayhem of early last year.

[/QUOTE]

That is exactly the point I have been making throughout this thread, and now here we have this Indian writer it. The power and influence of the BJP-RSS is growing at all levels ands across the classes that matter, and a slow but sure ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Christians is going on India - according to the Indian writer. The BJP-RSS has continued to be elected over and over again, and Gujrat proves that even the mass killing of minorities brings ever bigger votes. This is very tragic.

Reflections on the Gujarat Massacre](Where to Buy Diamond Pendants, Diamond Stud Earrings and Diamond Necklaces -) IndiaNest News

[thumb=A]0131.JPG[/thumb]
Hindu Mobs on their Killing Spree Against the Minorities

Numbed with disgust and horror, I return from Gujarat ten days after the terror and massacre that convulsed the state. My heart is sickened, my soul wearied, my shoulders aching with the burdens of guilt and shame.

As you walk through the camps of riot survivors in Ahmedabad, in which an estimated 53,000 women, men, and children are huddled in 29 temporary settlements, displays of overt grief are unusual. People clutch small bundles of relief materials, all that they now own in the world, with dry and glassy eyes. Some talk in low voices, others busy themselves with the tasks of everyday living in the most basic of shelters, looking for food and milk for children, tending the wounds of the injured.

But once you sit anywhere in these camps, people begin to speak and their words are like masses of pus released by slitting large festering wounds. The horrors that they speak of are so macabre, that my pen falters in the writing. The pitiless brutality against women and small children by organized bands of armed young men is more savage than anything witnessed in the riots that have shamed this nation from time to time during the past century. I force myself to write a small fraction of all that I heard and saw, because it is important that we all know. Or maybe also because I need to share my own burdens.

What can you say about a woman eight months pregnant who begged to be spared. Her assailants instead slit open her stomach, pulled out her fetus and slaughtered it before her eyes. What can you say about a family of nineteen being killed by flooding their house with water and then electrocuting them with high-tension electricity.

What can you say?
A small boy of six in Juhapara camp described how his mother and six brothers and sisters were battered to death before his eyes. He survived only because he fell unconscious, and was taken for dead. A family escaping from Naroda-Patiya, one of the worst-hit settlements in Ahmedabad, spoke of losing a young woman and her three month old son, because a police constable directed her to `safety’ and she found herself instead surrounded by a mob which doused her with kerosene and set her and her baby on fire.

I have never known a riot which has used the sexual subjugation of women so widely as an instrument of violence in the recent mass barbarity in Gujarat. There are reports everywhere of gang-rape, of young girls and women, often in the presence of members of their families, followed by their murder by burning alive, or by bludgeoning with a hammer and in one case with a screw driver. Women in the Aman Chowk shelter told appalling stories about how armed men disrobed themselves in front of a group of terrified women to cower them down further.

In Ahmedabad, most people I met – social workers, journalists, survivors – agree that what Gujarat witnessed was not a riot, but a terrorist attack followed by a systematic, planned massacre. Everyone spoke of the pillage and plunder, being organized like a military operation against an external armed enemy. An initial truck would arrive broadcasting inflammatory slogans, soon followed by more trucks which disgorged young men, mostly in khaki shorts and saffron sashes. They were armed with sophisticated explosive materials, country weapons, daggers and trishuls. They also carried water bottles, to sustain them in their exertions. The leaders were seen communicating on mobile telephones from the riot venues, receiving instructions from and reporting back to a coordinating centre. Some were seen with documents and computer sheets listing Muslim families and their properties. They had detailed precise knowledge about buildings and businesses held by members of the minority community, such as who were partners say in a restaurant business, or which Muslim homes had Hindu spouses were married who should be spared in the violence. This was not a spontaneous upsurge of mass anger. It was a carefully planned pogrom.

The trucks carried quantities of gas cylinders. Rich Muslim homes and business establishments were first systematically looted, stripped down of all their valuables, then cooking gas was released from cylinders into the buildings for several minutes. A trained member of the group then lit the flame which efficiently engulfed the building. In some cases, acetylene gas which is used for welding steel, was employed to explode large concrete buildings. Mosques and dargahs were razed, and were replaced by statues of Hanuman and saffron flags. Some dargahs in Ahmedabad city crossings have overnight been demolished and their sites covered with road building material, and bulldozed so efficiently that these spots are indistinguishable from the rest of the road.

Traffic now plies over these former dargahs, as though they never existed. The unconscionable failures and active connivance of the state police and administrative machinery is also now widely acknowledged. The police is known to have misguided people straight into the hands of rioting mobs. They provided protective shields to crowds bent on pillage, arson, rape and murder, and were deaf to the pleas of the desperate Muslim victims, many of them women and children. There have been many reports of police firing directly mostly at the minority community, which was the target of most of the mob violence. The large majority of arrests are also from the same community which was the main victim of the pogrom.

As one who has served in the Indian Administrative Service for over two decades, I feel great shame at the abdication of duty of my peers in the civil and police administration. The law did not require any of them to await orders from their political supervisors before they organized the decisive use of force to prevent the brutal escalation of violence, and to protect vulnerable women and children from the organized, murderous mobs. The law instead required them to act independently, fearlessly, impartially, decisively, with courage and compassion. If even one official had so acted in Ahmedabad, she or he could have deployed the police forces and called in the army to halt the violence and protect the people in a matter of hours. No riot can continue beyond a few hours without the active connivance of the local police and magistracy. The blood of hundreds of innocents are on the hands of the police and civil authorities of Gujarat, and by sharing in a conspiracy of silence, on the entire higher bureaucracy of the country. I have heard senior officials blame also the communalism of the police constabulary for their connivance in the violence. This too is a thin and disgraceful alibi. The same forces have been known to act with impartiality and courage when led by officers of professionalism and integrity. The failure is clearly of the leadership of the police and civil services, not of the subordinate men and women in khaki who are trained to obey their orders.

Where also, amidst this savagery, injustice, and human suffering is the `civil society’, the Gandhians, the development workers, the NGOs, the fabled spontaneous Gujarathi philanthropy which was so much in evidence in the earthquake in Kutch and Ahmedabad? The newspapers reported that at the peak of the pogrom, the gates of Sabarmati Ashram were closed to protect its properties, it should instead have been the city’s major sanctuary. Which Gandhian leaders, or NGO managers, staked their lives to halt the death-dealing throngs?

It is one more shame that we as citizens of this country must carry on our already burdened backs, that the camps for the Muslim riot victims in Ahmedabad are being run almost exclusively by Muslim organizations. It is as though the monumental pain, loss, betrayal and injustice suffered by the Muslim people is the concern only of other Muslim people, and the rest of us have no share in the responsibility to assuage, to heal and rebuild.

The state, which bears the primary responsibility to extend both protection and relief to its vulnerable citizens, was nowhere in evidence in any of the camps, to manage, organize the security, or even to provide the resources that are required to feed the tens of thousands of defenseless women, men and children huddled in these camps for safety. …

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 2bornot2b: *

Yet the Indian govt has the audacity to continue calling itself secular. The Hindu murderers that burnt thousands of Muslims and sent over a hundred thousand Muslims to the refugee camps are still in power - with increased majority!!
[/QUOTE]

2beornot2b Ji

I hope that you have noticed the BJP has been thrown out of power in Himachal Pradesh.

The Indian voter cannot be fooled for too long as in India we have a regular electoral procedure.

Do it right and you stay. Make a mess and you go out.

Have a nice day

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *

**I hope that you have noticed the BJP has been thrown out of power in Himachal Pradesh.

The Indian voter cannot be fooled for too long as in India we have a regular electoral procedure.**

[/QUOTE]

And the BJP-RSS were returned to power in Gujrat with an even bigger majority after the genocide of Muslims. The Indian voters have regularly voted the BJP-RSS back into power at the centre over and over again. Those are the facts.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *

And the BJP-RSS were returned to power in Gujrat with an even bigger majority after the genocide of Muslims. The Indian voters have regularly voted the BJP-RSS back into power at the centre over and over again. Those are the facts.
[/QUOTE]

can you predict who will win next parlimantary elections based on gujarat? indian wont keep them in power if it serves pakistan's interest.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

can you predict who will win next parlimantary elections based on gujarat?
[/QUOTE]

Before the last national elections in India you and others on this forum were predicting the BJP-RSS would not be re-elected at the centre, based on one or two small states. Guess what? You were wrong - the BJP-RSS was re-elected at the centre.

Not learning from your false predictions you and others predicted that the BJP-RSS would be kicked out of power in Gujrat after the genocide of the Muslims. Guess what again? You were wrong again the BJP-RSS and their blood thirsty leaders were re-elected in Gujrat with an even bigger majority.

So I think my predictions are certainly going to be better than yours because they are based on actual facts.

folks, you seem to have no clue about what happens in India. Though I am myself yet to figure out the riddle completely, based on my few years of stay here I think asif comes closest. I will post more if you guys are interested.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *

Before the last national elections in India you and others on this forum were predicting the BJP-RSS would not be re-elected at the centre, based on one or two small states. Guess what? You were wrong - the BJP-RSS was re-elected at the centre.

Not learning from your false predictions you and others predicted that the BJP-RSS would be kicked out of power in Gujrat after the genocide of the Muslims. Guess what again? You were wrong again the BJP-RSS and their blood thirsty leaders were re-elected in Gujrat with an even bigger majority.

So I think my predictions are certainly going to be better than yours because they are based on actual facts.
[/QUOTE]

if bjp destabilses india they will be kicked out . we know pakistani
goals just sitting across the border to watch the county torn apart by
communal riots.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

if bjp destabilses india they will be kicked out .
[/QUOTE]

Just like when they destablised Gujrat by murdering thousands of Muslims - they were kicked out were they?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *

Just like when they destablised Gujrat by murdering thousands of Muslims - they were kicked out were they?
[/QUOTE]

however you try you wont be allowed to be catalyst for communal
riots.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *

however you try you wont be allowed to be catalyst for communal
riots.
[/QUOTE]

We don't have to you are doing a great job on your own....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *

Before the last national elections in India you and others on this forum were predicting the BJP-RSS would not be re-elected at the centre, based on one or two small states. Guess what? You were wrong - the BJP-RSS was re-elected at the centre.

Not learning from your false predictions you and others predicted that the BJP-RSS would be kicked out of power in Gujrat after the genocide of the Muslims. Guess what again? You were wrong again the BJP-RSS and their blood thirsty leaders were re-elected in Gujrat with an even bigger majority.

So I think my predictions are certainly going to be better than yours because they are based on actual facts.
[/QUOTE]

well, u have not understood th issue. bjp never got a majority. it was just the single largest party. that it happened to form the govt. is because of the immoral politicians. and the rise of bjp has been because of the policy of appeasement of the minority by the previous govts. hindus have felt that they have been treated as second-class citizens in their own country. for example, which country other than india sponsors haj travel? and surprise of surprises, even the bjp has continued this policy.
i can answer most of the questions that u people raise on this forum. but i will save that for later.

Munna

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by munnabhai:

the rise of bjp has been because of the policy of appeasement of the minority by the previous govts.
[/QUOTE]

First of all are you justifying the BJP-RSS-VHP-Bajrang Dal campaign of mass murder of Muslims and persecution of Christians?

Was the genocide of tens of thousands of Sikhs during the 1980's a policy of appeasment by previous governments? Is the slaughter of some 80,000 Kashmiri Muslims a policy of appeasment started by previous governments? Has the killing of of upto 10,000 Christians in Nagaland also been an example of past government's appeasment policies? Indeed was the mass slaughter of thousands upon thousands of Muslims launched across India after Ayodhya also appeasing minorties?