hindus being trained to be sucide squads in india

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

here is an important news item
its interesting to note that while pres musharraff is cracking down on islamics in pak religious schools are scrutinized, military training by religious schools banned in pakistan. collection of funds by religious parties banned, carrying of arms banned in pakistan
look whats hapening in india the largest democracy

please check out the link for pictures

Retired Lt Gen P N Hoon and a few other ex-Servicemen belonging to the Shiv Sena are to be booked by the Thane police for allowing 29 youths to use swords during, what Hoon calls a “suicide squad training camp”.

Thane Police Commissioner S M Shangari said, “We know about the training camp and the use of swords. Action has been initiated against them under Section 37 of the Arms Act for carrying prohibited arms.’’

The training camp was held in Badlapur, Thane district, over the past fortnight and ended yesterday with the youths being given certificates. “In fact, the youths have signed certificates saying they will lay down their lives if needed,’’ Hoon said.

Aside from training with swords, the youths were also taught some karate, the use of lathis and air guns, and put through obstacle courses.

Mantralaya sources said the action against the Sena men started late last night after Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh spoke to Shangari. Deshmukh reportedly found out about the camp through intelligence sources.

Lt Gen (Retd) Hoon speaking to members
of the squad yesterday

Speaking about the use of prohibited swords, Hoon, who retired as commander-in-chief, Western Command, said, “Swords are one of the oldest weapons. What’s wrong if we carry them? Even Sikhs carry them while riding horses. Why is no action taken against them? After all, one needs to carry some weapon or the other.’’

Hoon said, “These squads are to protect the country from terrorists. Pakistanis have been infiltrating the country to create trouble and they are supported by some Indians who have an anti-national mindset. Our suicide squad will defend the country from such people.”

He added that the suicide squad was set up on the instructions of Shiv Sena chief Balasaheb Thackeray.

Hoon claimed that he is setting up more such camps across the country. He said he was leaving for Chandigarh this morning, and later would visit Jammu and Kashmir, for this purpose.

http://www.mid-day.com/news/city/2002/november/36279.htm

2

I think they are too scared to die and will only fight when they are 100% guarnteed to kill and not be killed themselves.

Generally you will find them to be cowards just look in kashmir where theres what 200-300 000 of the indian soldiers what are they doing stealing,rape, genocide typical attributes of a coward nation.

3

Kabir is a pakistani and no wonder he got hold on such a head line.well,in my opinion hindus are too scared to be suicide bombers and no where in history one can see any hindu acted as a suicide soldier.shiv sena is a party of fundamentalists and no wonder they holding these kind of camps and other `jack and jill dramas,.they had even plans to fight in kashmir and i do not what happened to their dreams or plans whatever.

         but the real answer and fate lyies in this thread itself as it briefs about poilice krack down on these people.
4

After this bal Thhakre type of standard Hindu religion will look like something like that of Islam.
A real degradation in fact.

And AK47/ to yours type of utterances I have a simple question left unanswered so far....
Indian soldiers are so cruel in Kashmir, why there is no mass migration of Kashmiri Muslims, no refugee camps.....it always happens when army start buchering in public areas. Do you have any logic?

5

this is just stupid. soon we'll have these morons running amok disrupting civilian life.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anand: *
After this bal Thhakre type of standard Hindu religion will look like something like that of Islam.
A real degradation in fact.

And AK47/ to yours type of utterances I have a simple question left unanswered so far....
Indian soldiers are so cruel in Kashmir, why there is no mass migration of Kashmiri Muslims, no refugee camps.....it always happens when army start buchering in public areas. Do you have any logic?
[/QUOTE]

There is just one logic, a bullet in head doesn't let a person, run, hide, talk, scream. Oppression, heard of that before?

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gesto: *
Kabir is a pakistani and no wonder he got hold on such a head line.well,in my opinion hindus are too scared to be suicide bombers and no where in history one can see any hindu acted as a suicide soldier.shiv sena is a party of fundamentalists and no wonder they holding these kind of camps and other `jack and jill dramas,.they had even plans to fight in kashmir and i do not what happened to their dreams or plans whatever.

         but the real answer and fate lyies in this thread itself as it briefs about poilice krack down on these people.

[/QUOTE]
812.8

Gesto, Haven't you heard about LTTE - Liberation Tigers of Tamil Elam, obviously they are brave (crazy) enough and they are Hindus.

However, I agree that this is a real menace, if these squads, start attacking innocent people in our country, then we will see series of communal disturbances.

Well if they are planning to attack the terrorists - then May God Bless Them. My whole hearted support for them.

8

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ali_R: *

There is just one logic, a bullet in head doesn't let a person, run, hide, talk, scream. Oppression, heard of that before?
[/QUOTE]

Have you heard of something called 'Brainwashing a Generation'. I am seeing the product of it.

There is absolutely no truth that Indian army is committing crimes. I accept that there were few brutalities and it is also true that some soldiers did committ excessess. But, what about criminals from one country being released into kashmir, on the condition that they wear indian army uniforms and rape and kill women.

If you want to see true army brutality then go to Chechnya, or ask the croatians or Bangladeshis.

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Victory: *

Have you heard of something called 'Brainwashing a Generation'. I am seeing the product of it.

There is absolutely no truth that Indian army is committing crimes. I accept that there were few brutalities and it is also true that some soldiers did committ excessess. But, what about criminals from one country being released into kashmir, on the condition that they wear indian army uniforms and rape and kill women.

If you want to see true army brutality then go to Chechnya, or ask the croatians or Bangladeshis.
[/QUOTE]

The problem with you is, you think I'm an odinary Pakistani having his jang and dawn in his hands. No I read more than you think especially about politics.

Back to topic, Indian Army and their crimes a topic that even the UN will admit after having agreed that the terrorists you are talking about being given a chance in the Indian Army if they corrupt. Now think again, a terrorist recruited in Indian Army, what does it lead to?

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ali_R: *

The problem with you is, you think I'm an odinary Pakistani having his jang and dawn in his hands. No I read more than you think especially about politics.

Back to topic, Indian Army and their crimes a topic that even the UN will admit after having agreed that the terrorists you are talking about being given a chance in the Indian Army if they corrupt. Now think again, a terrorist recruited in Indian Army, what does it lead to?
[/QUOTE]

Ali, If you are reading more news than jang and dawn and seeing more than PTV, good to you.

I did not want to name, but let me tell you. I have one of my friend's father in the Indian army in a top position and I had discussed many times about kashmir. He is in a top position and these are some of the points.

Rape of women:

No army officer orders rape of women. But, unfortunately when you have thousands of troops in the valley, there is every chance that one of them might commit the offence. In the early nineties that had happened and many soldiers were court martialled and punished.

Killing of innocents:

When a guerilla war is being fought without knowing and when the enemy is hiding, you will have excessess. Army has to cordon off areas and search. There is no other thought about it. Many times innocents were caught up and it is true that the army acted in wrong manner. I agree that it is no consolation for the affected families, but still Indian army are Gods, compared to what Pakistani army did in Bangladesh, and what the Russian's do in Chechnya.

Regarding terrorists in Indian uniform, you have got it wrong my friend. It is one of our neighbouring country (which I do not want to name), that releases all the captured prisoners and criminals onto the innocent kashmiri women. That is one of the worst part of the conflict that due to the politicial interference of one country the people of my country are suffering.

11

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Victory: *

Ali, If you are reading more news than jang and dawn and seeing more than PTV, good to you.

I did not want to name, but let me tell you. I have one of my friend's father in the Indian army in a top position and I had discussed many times about kashmir. He is in a top position and these are some of the points.

Rape of women:

No army officer orders rape of women. But, unfortunately when you have thousands of troops in the valley, there is every chance that one of them might commit the offence. In the early nineties that had happened and many soldiers were court martialled and punished.

Killing of innocents:

When a guerilla war is being fought without knowing and when the enemy is hiding, you will have excessess. Army has to cordon off areas and search. There is no other thought about it. Many times innocents were caught up and it is true that the army acted in wrong manner. I agree that it is no consolation for the affected families, but still Indian army are Gods, compared to what Pakistani army did in Bangladesh, and what the Russian's do in Chechnya.

Regarding terrorists in Indian uniform, you have got it wrong my friend. It is one of our neighbouring country (which I do not want to name), that releases all the captured prisoners and criminals onto the innocent kashmiri women. That is one of the worst part of the conflict that due to the politicial interference of one country the people of my country are suffering.
[/QUOTE]

Victory, nice excuses so you also believe Kashmiri ppl die in "friendly fire"?
A person who is high ranked in the Indian Army will not find faults in his own ppl, that is natural isn't it?

12

Yeah....hindu holy warriors are almost as bad as the buddhist holy warriors.

13

Ak47, right on! You share my sentiments to the T :k: :k: :k:

14

We have nothing to fear from Hindus sucide squads, if there anything like the Indian soldiers oin the border they'll detonate whilst trying to set the bloody thing up!

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mo_best: *
We have nothing to fear from Hindus sucide squads, if there anything like the Indian soldiers oin the border they'll detonate whilst trying to set the bloody thing up!
[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that suicide squads and terrorism are a monopoly of muslims? Why do we see everyone whining here when the rest of the world says the same thing?

16

How you summerized my previous post to that point is beyond me!

Care to explian yaar?

Much appreciated.

Cheers

Mo

17

Sorta reminds me of the Hitler Youth camps...

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ali_R: *

Victory, nice excuses so you also believe Kashmiri ppl die in "friendly fire"?
A person who is high ranked in the Indian Army will not find faults in his own ppl, that is natural isn't it?
[/QUOTE]

Ali,
It is not an excuse. If you find the time, just go through the Indian express or Times of india. You can find articles where the excesses are severely criticised. Press in India is free. See the case of Iftekhar gilani, who was arrested in Delhi under POTA and the whole of the teaching, and legal community are defending him. If you ask me the question, whether all of the perpetrators of the crime are punished, then I would say no.

That is not because Indian army is bent on creating trouble for muslims, but because of the state of society. You will find extrajudicial killings by police even in southern states which are far away from the conflicts. Police torture criminals and many die in jails. The naxalites in andhra Pradesh are 'Killed' in fake encounters. PUCL- peoples union for civil liberties is fighting against the state government to put an end to all these. The public have got the message and are awakening to the fact that police are committing excesses. If the army has killed someone after arrest and in detention, then it is a crime.

The army officer about which I was discussing was one of the crucial men deciding the fate of one of the army men who had raped a kashmiri women. He said that he handed down the worst punishment possible.

On the other hand tell me what if mujahids rape and kill women? Many innocents were killed by the mujahids. Why don't you condemn them ? Many mujahid's who were interrogated told that they came from prison's. Their main aim is to create terror - nothing related to people's aspirations.

How many times did the members in this forum condemned ethnic cleansing of the pandits. Today pandits live as refugees in their own country.

I would make my position clear. If any army guy has committed excesses, then he must be severely punished. But, who will account for the lawless Mujahideen?

19

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Victory: *
**812.8*

Gesto, Haven't you heard about LTTE - Liberation Tigers of Tamil Elam, obviously they are brave (crazy) enough and they are Hindus.

However, I agree that this is a real menace, if these squads, start attacking innocent people in our country, then we will see series of communal disturbances.

Well if they are planning to attack the terrorists - then May God Bless Them. My whole hearted support for them.
[/QUOTE]

Victory,

       ofcourse i have heared abt LTTE and have special interests with them .
   but thats another story.u need to remember the fact that LTTE is (was ?)fighting not for a HINDU RASHTRA but for a TAMIL EEZHAM.you need to remember one point that LTTE squads were being trained by indian intelligence agencies and trained them in guerilla warfare and other war tactics.

         i think you can spot only one hindu suicide soldier in history and thats NATHURAM VINAYAK GODSE who,was not killed while carrying out the mission,stood emotionless,after assasinating Gandhiji, finally found a hang to death sentence.

   do u think these people can move their small fingers even?do u think these people posess sophisticated weapons as posessed by pak trained terrorists?how do u think,these people will contain our enemies?i think the action by these people will only flicker the conflagrations between hindus and muslims.
20

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Victory: *

**
Ali,
It is not an excuse. If you find the time, just go through the Indian express or Times of india. You can find articles where the excesses are severely criticised. Press in India is free. See the case of Iftekhar gilani, who was arrested in Delhi under POTA and the whole of the teaching, and legal community are defending him. If you ask me the question, whether all of the perpetrators of the crime are punished, then I would say no. **

Victory,

As you already mentioned that case you see that he was arrested by the State and now ppl fear the dead penality or an unjustified trail.
And believe me I read Indian Express and Hindu times as much as I do read the other news papers.
The executing phase of the unjust behaviour as already been triggered so how is it possible to talk about a clean free press then.

*That is not because Indian army is bent on creating trouble for muslims, but because of the state of society. You will find extrajudicial killings by police even in southern states which are far away from the conflicts. Police torture criminals and many die in jails. The naxalites in andhra Pradesh are 'Killed' in fake encounters. PUCL- peoples union for civil liberties is fighting against the state government to put an end to all these. The public have got the message and are awakening to the fact that police are committing excesses. If the army has killed someone after arrest and in detention, then it is a crime. *

No, It doesn't matter if these ppl were muslims I bet a million if Kashmir would have been a christian area Indian Army would have done the same, but the international community had acted much more sensible and UN troops would have the control there by now.
If an army member kills on the street without arresting, is that not a crime? Beating up ppl without any reason, is that justified?

The army officer about which I was discussing was one of the crucial men deciding the fate of one of the army men who had raped a kashmiri women. He said that he handed down the worst punishment possible.

Even if that person did a good job, It doesn't mean the whole Indian Army is recruiting angels. There are enough cases where the hero is the culprit.
One man can not change the whole situation in Kashmir, if then It's G.WBush.

*On the other hand tell me what if mujahids rape and kill women? Many innocents were killed by the mujahids. Why don't you condemn them ? Many mujahid's who were interrogated told that they came from prison's. Their main aim is to create terror - nothing related to people's aspirations. *

You can not compare mujahids with Indian Army. One is a rebel and fights and kills for freedom the other, a state employee but as you stated some of them just create terror in that region. How come then if the Indian Army is familiar to that, why they recruit those who sold out then? Exactly those Terrorists, mujahid the bad and evil who rape and kill?

How many times did the members in this forum condemned ethnic cleansing of the pandits. Today pandits live as refugees in their own country.

I'm not responsible for all here, I talk and think what I am.

I would make my position clear. If any army guy has committed excesses, then he must be severely punished. But, who will account for the lawless Mujahideen?

Exactly "lawless" MUjahideen, how many rebels in history have you been encountered who didn't kill, rape and murder in name of freedom?

[/QUOTE]