Hinduisnm vs Islam

a famous female hindu writer converted some time ago… quoting “pardah” and some other reasons for her conversion. obviously hindutvas of today wont like to announce the conversions… but they happen today. And its not jamaat-islami that is incharge of spreading islam or any other organization. Every muslim is given the responsibility to spread the word. As for hindu organizations in Pakistan are concerned, well in your words… an unorganized, supermarket type of cult is too embarrasing for their own hinduland, let alone in a land far away.

btw, whatever happened to the “hare krishna hare ram” organization of U.S which got sued for millions for molesting young american babies by a bunch of brahmans. now these are some sick &^% %%&%& arent they.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

You are talking of 63 year old Kamala Das. There have been few people who converted to Hinduism as well. And this Kamala Das who is praising burqa today is famous for her 'tell everyhing' autobiograpy which gives detailed description of her sexual life in youth. So how much is belief and how much is publicity seeking is anybody's guess.

But how many such conversions? Will they make 10% of population muslim?

Remember partion. If Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs converted to Islam, they did not have to run away to India leaving behind all property, endangering lives and respect of their women. But the prefered to give up everything and did not convert. Those who stayed back were forced into conversion sooner or later.

So people do not convert easily, if they have choice, despite problems. There are often violent reasons behind conversions and case of n choice, i.e. conversion or death.

If u need details of forced conversions from western sources, i can give them. I can also detail the jizia and other inhumane laws forced on non muslims. See ya tomorrow evening.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited August 10, 2000).]

Is this subject still on track or has it sub-divided into a hundred and one different ones?

Faaltoo Topic , no logic can do anything with it .

[quote]
Originally posted by Admin:
**Is this subject still on track or has it sub-divided into a hundred and one different ones?

**
[/quote]

The original subject heading and the initial posts are wildly deviant from the current discussion, if that's what you mean. It is still, though, on some level, Hinduism vs Islam, though it sometimes get sidetracked onto India vs Pakistan, conversion issues, and some personal issues.

zz says
"why did god have hotline with mohammad"

-1.God DID not have any sort of hotline with Muhammad(s.a.w),it wasn't only him, but Jesus,Moses,Abrahim, and rest gave the SAME message as Muhammad(s.a.w) did, the only difference is,he was the last prophet.

"why he did not send any messages to dogs, cats and cockroaches."
-2.Guess what!!! God did send a messenger to dogs, cats and cockroaches!HAZRAT SULAIMAN alai-he-salaam, he was considered the prophet of Jins,wild animals and was able to communicate with all these beings.But all these dogs and cats are not considered superior being like Mankind because God gave us brain, power to think and make decisions and rule the earth.

"Is got male chauavanist and he sends messages only to human males"
-3. Yes, this is a very important question, as far as my understanding is concered ,WOMENHOOD is something which is never given importance in society, Man can never accept a woman ruling and considered more intelligent than him, in old ages women were treated like piece of garbedge, they had VERY LESS POWER, if there was a female messenger, she would have had to go out and spread the word of GOD and she could have been very disrespected in many ways, our prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) had to face all sort of difficulties, kafirs use to throw garbege at him, call him with bad names, Our prophet didn't have any son, Kafirs use to say, look he calls himself the messenger of Allah and his Allah can't even give him a son who can carry his name,but THEY WERE WRONG, kafirs said who will talk about Muhammad because he has no son, but look today Muhammad is known all over the world.
** If there was a female messenger, first of all she would have been treated in very disrespectful ways , but male prophets did face all the hezards and still stood up**
Muhammad(s.a.w) was a human being, he died like a human being, he felt pain when people cursed him out, Allah didn't give him super powers that if someone swears at him, that person will die, Muhammad(s.a.w) was tested by Allah and faced problems throughout his life.

"why not a pig messanger and how do u know there has not been one"
-4.There hasn't be a pig messenger because pig doesn't have brain,and HELLO? we are talking about Islam here,not hinduism in which animals are considered superior than Man, you guys won't eat cow, but if a shooder comes near you , he is dead! EXCUSE ME BUT ISLAM GIVES MORE IMPORTANCE TO MANKIND THAN IT DOES TO ANIMALS

"Let us have logical dissection of myuths including ones in Quran"
-5. Dear what myths are you talking about, everything Quran stated is valid enough to be believed,the Prophets it talks about, History is the evidence that they existed, Jesus existed and so did Moses and ofcourse Muhammad(s.a.w)We are not the only people , did you ever get to read bible or torah?if not then do, what we muslims talk about, they talk about the same concepts.

"Adam and Eve lived in heaven!! where it was"
-6. This is the speciality about us muslims, we believe in the unseen and so do christains and jews.The world hereafter, we haven't been there because we will be introduced to that world once we die.Adam and Eve lived there,because they were created there.That is where the mankind began.

"Why god did not want them to eat apple"
-7.Allah didn't want them to eat apple,there are different philosophies about that,before we can answer this, we should answer WHY DID GOD CREATE MAN? God states in Quran, "Just recall the time when your Lord said to the angels, "i am going to appoint a vicegerent on the Earth", they humbly enquired, "Art Thou going to make such a one as will cause Disorder and shed blood on the Earth?We are already engaged in hymning Thy praise, and hallowing Thy name," Allah replied, "I know what you know not".After that He tought Adam the names of all things............" Surab Baqrah 30-33. After that when God asked angels to Bow to Adam, they all did but Iblis(who was not an angle but created from fire, a Jin) refused to do so.This was the beginning and the first enemy of Man was created. Allah could have put this in Iblis's heart and made him Bow to Adam, but no Allah didn't, He left it upto Iblis to decide what he wants to do, obey God or disobey, why??Only because Allah planned to do so. Allah wanted to create Earth and set man as the emperor, this whole thing was planned thats why He sent them to heaven and asked them not to eat a certain fruit. Quran says, Surab Baqarah "O Adam,you and your wife,both dwell in the Garden and eat to your heart's content wherefrom you will,but do not go near this tree; otherwise you shall become trangressors."(35-37)so this shows,it is not said that the fruit was apple, but it was a fruit.Satan tempted them with that tree and they disobeyed God.
That was the beginning on the existence of Mankind on this Earth.

"Why he didnt explain him what he means rather than ordering"
Honestly, i don't get you?God didn't explain why he shouldn't eat that fruit?Well God tought Adam everything, gave him brain, allowed him to make his decisions,God could have taken away his power to make decision and do whatever God tells him to do?Why didn't he do that?Why did Allah gave him freedom of choice?
If you can answer these questions only then you will understand why God didn't explain him, God wanted to test Adam because now when Adam knows Iblis is his enemy, how well does Adam use his brain, will he listen to Iblis or God.

"Cant god treat umans with respect. in that case why he asks humans to respect him"
I'm sorry to say, but this is a very stupid question.There is no comparison between GOD and human beings.We were created to respect our creator.God doesn't need us to respect Him, he can make us do anything he pleases but this is all His plan, he gave us brain, to think about Him, praise him with understanding that how Powerful Almighty is.

"how did adam and eve come to earth after expelled from heaven was it a space shuttle"
How do we die?what happens to us when we die?Think about it, does our sole flies out of us or it sits in an aroplan or is it helicopter?Dear, we are talking about Godly powers,shuttle,helicopters,aroplans HE doesn't need all these because man created all this by using his brain and GOD gave us this brain of ours,if there was no brain, there won't be any helicopter or a shuttle.

"does god still stick to heaven and keep an eye on earth,what is his machinary to do it"
-Once again i would repeat myself, we are talking about Godly powers not human creation.If he can make a statue made out of sand and water walk,talk,eat,grow He can do anything.Machinary?you kidding me?that is why HE IS GOD because he doesn't need any sort of machinery.
Gosh!!you need serious help!should i laugh at your stupidness or pitty you?

"whom did adam and eve's children marry. or they had sex with their brothers, sisters, father and mother? how disgusting."
-Yes indeed, very disgusting but dear you will be shocked to know that only because of that disgustfullness you are here today.Eve use to give birth to twins at a time, and every twin married not his/her twin brother but the opposite sex brother/sister from the next pair.This was by the order of God, Eve was created from Adams body, was she his daughter?NO! that was the bigenning of man kind, but still that wasn't as disgusting as SINGLE woman marrying 5 brothers,when she has other choice.

Andhera states:
"He can come down to earth and get into a human being as an Avtaar or incarnation can't he?"
Come down and get into human beings?why?He is GOD! he doesn't have to show HIMSELF to make people believe in Him!He is way higher than human beings, there is not a bit comparison, why would He need to get into Human Body and make other human beings worship a human being? GOD is way beyond superior and He doesn't need to come to earth to enjoy and leave when he doesn't find it fun staying on earth anymore.If this is the case, then God wont be God, if His politics is so much like man's then He won't be called GOD.

zz says :
"Oh. masooma.. u dont like god"
-Who said so?

"how about being a naiyayik. Nyaya philosophy does not have god. Hinduism is a supermarket. You can get a philosophy with whichever ingradients u like. in fact u can make ur own philosophy as well. but teake a good look in market, maybe what u want to make already is in store. take care and convert soon.
In fact, if u continue to follow islam and call urself a hindu, none would object that, what is big deal with one more sage mohammad when we had a million of them. no problem.."

-I'm very happy that i'm not one of the non-believers, i know what Islam is and WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN god and GOD.Call myself hindu??give me one good reason why should i do that?so that i can have some fun dancing in front gods and godesses?
No,I am satisfied with what Islam gives me, i can atleast get answers to all my questions unlike your relegion which keeps on changing, who knows how advance hindusim will become.Thank you for your advise anyways.

ZZ you say:
"masooma, given the zeal with which u r dissecting the stories about hindu gods, i would like to know if u believe that adam and eve lived in heaven, ate apple and came to earth. if u believe that, what is ur problem believing that kali mata rode a tiger and killed a few deamons. the later story sounds more plausible to me"

Yes i believe in Adam and Eve and that they lived in heaven because its not what only Quran says but bible, torah also state the same FACT!!

If kali mata existed and rode a tiger is true then why did such a powerful lady die?And zz bhaiyai you admitted yourself that hinduism keeps on changing its beliefs.And why does your god looks so scary?gods are to bless children or scare them?I dont know about others, but when i see the pictures of all those gods of yours, its more of a scary view than impressive.

Rational:
"Masooma I think calling anyone's religion bogus is impolite and if you expect someone to convert the last thing you wanna do is misintepret your religion. Islam teaches accomodation for all religions and people and we should practice that and respect others for what they are and try convincing them amicably into what we believe vs what they believe.

-Yes you are very right, i agree 100% but trust me, they will never admit that they are wrong no matter how accurate information you supply them, they are being more of egoistic than open minded.They will not admit the weaknesses of their relegion because their parents were hindu and they have to carry the hindu name and tradition,regardless to how wrong they are to deny Islamic teachings.
Surah Al-Baqrah "As for those who have rejected(these things),it is all the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them......"(6-7)
Rational,i tried having decent conversation but TRUST me its no use.All the best awakening them up!

Masooma

[This message has been edited by Masooma (edited August 10, 2000).]

Masooma >>Rational,i tried having decent conversation but TRUST me its no use.All the best awakening them up!

Rational was doing quite a good job of having a decent conversation before people like you butted in!

Religion is only a matter of faith.
So the term religious debate is an oxymoron.
The only thing to do is make an attempt to know each other’s religion.
As for Casteism which some of you are criticizing taking a high moral pedestal, let me tell you it is just like having thousands of sects like Shias and Sunnis in your religion.Except that Hindus don’t go into temples with machine guns and shoot the other sects

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

As for animal worship I think it is quite all right.it is humans who are screwing up this planet i.e, those who think they they are human.
So stop trying to point out this and that in Hinduism.
By the way there are more than 200 posts for this thread, but none of you stuck to the topic.
it is not too late even now.

forced conversions by who???? muslims who were former idol worshippers or had idol worshippers as their ancestors. so basically u got a whipping by ur own kind. maybe they were fedup of some of the sick stuff that they used to preach..... and is still worshipped among hindus of today.

kamla das in her pre-islamic life was still a lot better off than those millions of devdasies.... yet she was still not content with what hinduism taught to her as a hindu. she converted cos she felt more secure in Pardah.

what about the former hindu who embraced Islam eversince he was involved in the destruction of Babri mosque. No one could possibly threaten him and force him to be a muslim today. If you go ask him the reasons for his conversion to Islam, these would be the same reasons as of any other former idol-worshipper.

As a converted muslim he would now want to worship in a mosque and not a temple.... he would now want to worship a God and not a monkey or a rat...... so is there any surprise that when Islam emerged in a land full of stone age idol-worshippers, they themselves destroyed their old primitive, perverted sick ways of preaching? If you are surprised.... then you are mislead.

“let me tell you it is just like having thousands of sects like Shias and Sunnis in your religion.Except that Hindus don’t go into temples with machine guns and shoot the other sects
As for animal worship I think it is quite all right.it is humans who are screwing up this planet i.e, those who think they they are human”
-Yes we have many sects BUT non of them are considered low ranked, we don’t kill if a shai comes near sunni, or if sunni comes to shia, the conflicts we have between sects is a different issue, we both sects believe in ONE GOD,SAME QURAN, SAME NABI so both are equaly ranked.And please don’t tell me you brahmins are not raciest, lets see your grand mother eat dinner sitting next to a shooder?hmmmm something impossible huhn?

Andhera, i answered all wierd questions asked by ZZ which i expected to be asked, now its your turn answer the question i asked which made ZZ angry and pick on me

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

i am glad though he did because he is not the only hindu around who ask such questions.Now kindly answer mine if you really are very sure about how right you are to worship animals.

** If these animals were gods,and those human beings were gods, how did your gods die?if gods also die like ordinary human beings, how can you call them gods?if your gods struggled really hard fighting there enemies,why can’t god just blow a whistle and end of enemy?why do your gods have similar taste about having fun,which is dancing women?why are your gods so much like ordinary human beings?why something your god created (mankind) pleases him and he marries another mankind? how come your god was born like an ordinary human being?and last but not least, do you know what the word “God” means? **

Masooma

P.S ZZ NOW DON’T BLOW IT AGAIN, INTERFERE IF AND ONLY IF YOU KNOW WHAT ARE THE ANSWERS,OTHERWISE KEEP YOUR ANGRY A$$ OUT OF HERE.

[This message has been edited by Masooma (edited August 11, 2000).]

Masooma

ZZ NOW DON'T BLOW IT AGAIN, INTERFERE IF AND ONLY IF YOU KNOW WHAT ARE THE ANSWERS,OTHERWISE KEEP YOUR ANGRY A$$ OUT OF HERE.<<

You remind me of Mullahs, who love to preach, talk a lot and blow their own horn with illogical and baseless arguments, but donot follows what they preach. How about following your own advice (above is a good example of your language and your tone) before yelling it to others.

BTW, I find ZZ, arguments concise and to the point.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited August 11, 2000).]

Originally posted by Masooma:
**zz says
"why did god have hotline with mohammad"

-1.God DID not have any sort of hotline with Muhammad(s.a.w),it wasn't only him, but Jesus,Moses,Abrahim, and rest gave the SAME message as Muhammad(s.a.w) did, the only difference is,he was the last prophet.**

How do u know. Just because he says so. Or a book says so. I can find a book saying Kalimata rode a tiger. One book is as good as another book.

**

"why he did not send any messages to dogs, cats and cockroaches."
-2.Guess what!!! God did send a messenger to dogs, cats and cockroaches!HAZRAT SULAIMAN alai-he-salaam, he was considered the prophet of Jins,wild animals and was able to communicate with all these beings.But all these dogs and cats are not considered superior being like Mankind because God gave us brain, power to think and make decisions and rule the earth.
**

Why should human beings rule the earth when they are so selfish and dishonest? Species after species are disapppearing due to constant intereference by humans.

So what did this prophet do to save the dogs. Did he introduce marraiges in them. Will he go around and stop dogs that will date a different male everyday and have sex with more than one dog on day or he told that while male dogs can do it, females better stay pious. Did he try to put dog females in burqa. Afterall, how can one blame male dogs not being able to control themselves when they see fermale dogs moving around with bare breasts. I am sure all of them will go to hell and Muslims are doing nothing to put dogs in burqa and save their morals.
**
"Is got male chauavanist and he sends messages only to human males"
-3. Yes, this is a very important question, as far as my understanding is concered ,WOMENHOOD is something which is never given importance in society, Man can never accept a woman ruling and considered more intelligent than him, in old ages women were treated like piece of garbedge, they had VERY LESS POWER, if there was a female messenger, she would have had to go out and spread the word of GOD and she could have been very disrespected in many ways, our prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) had to face all sort of difficulties, kafirs use to throw garbege at him, call him with bad names, Our prophet didn't have any son, Kafirs use to say, look he calls himself the messenger of Allah and his Allah can't even give him a son who can carry his name,but THEY WERE WRONG, kafirs said who will talk about Muhammad because he has no son, but look today Muhammad is known all over the world.

If there was a female messenger, first of all she would have been treated in very disrespectful ways , but male prophets did face all the hezards and still stood up
Muhammad(s.a.w) was a human being, he died like a human being, he felt pain when people cursed him out, Allah didn't give him super powers that if someone swears at him, that person will die, Muhammad(s.a.w) was tested by Allah and faced problems throughout his life.**

If the women have no power, it is duty of god to make them powerful, instead of having system where women can not even go out of house as in Afghanistan. Islam has made women more powerless than ever, due to its very male chauvanastic philosophy.

If god is all powerful he can send a woman messenger and make people respect her. Or even god finds himself/herself helpless against male chauvanism.

"why not a pig messanger and how do u know there has not been one"
-4.There hasn't be a pig messenger because pig doesn't have brain,and HELLO? we are talking about Islam here,not hinduism in which animals are considered superior than Man, you guys won't eat cow, but if a shooder comes near you , he is dead! EXCUSE ME BUT ISLAM GIVES MORE IMPORTANCE TO MANKIND THAN IT DOES TO ANIMALS

Pig has a brain, as much as dog has it. And should mentally retarded men deserve being saved or having religion. If they do, why not pigs.
**
"Let us have logical dissection of myuths including ones in Quran"
-5. Dear what myths are you talking about, everything Quran stated is valid enough to be believed,the Prophets it talks about, History is the evidence that they existed, Jesus existed and so did Moses and ofcourse Muhammad(s.a.w)We are not the only people , did you ever get to read bible or torah?if not then do, what we muslims talk about, they talk about the same concepts.
**
It is just one book versus other. I do not trust bible or Torah or Quran more than mills and boon novels.
**
"Adam and Eve lived in heaven!! where it was"
-6. This is the speciality about us muslims, we believe in the unseen and so do christains and jews.The world hereafter, we haven't been there because we will be introduced to that world once we die.Adam and Eve lived there,because they were created there.That is where the mankind began.
**

How do u know they lived in heaven. Where is heaven? how do u know it exists? When were u there last time?

**"Why god did not want them to eat apple"
-7.Allah didn't want them to eat apple,there are different philosophies about that,before we can answer this, we should answer WHY DID GOD CREATE MAN? God states in Quran, "Just recall the time when your Lord said to the angels, "i am going to appoint a vicegerent on the Earth", they humbly enquired, "Art Thou going to make such a one as will cause Disorder and shed blood on the Earth?We are already engaged in hymning Thy praise, and hallowing Thy name," Allah replied, "I know what you know not".After that He tought Adam the names of all things............" Surab Baqrah 30-33. After that when God asked angels to Bow to Adam, they all did but Iblis(who was not an angle but created from fire, a Jin) refused to do so.This was the beginning and the first enemy of Man was created. Allah could have put this in Iblis's heart and made him Bow to Adam, but no Allah didn't, He left it upto Iblis to decide what he wants to do, obey God or disobey, why??Only because Allah planned to do so. Allah wanted to create Earth and set man as the emperor, this whole thing was planned thats why He sent them to heaven and asked them not to eat a certain fruit. Quran says, Surab Baqarah "O Adam,you and your wife,both dwell in the Garden and eat to your heart's content wherefrom you will,but do not go near this tree; otherwise you shall become trangressors."(35-37)so this shows,it is not said that the fruit was apple, but it was a fruit.Satan tempted them with that tree and they disobeyed God.
That was the beginning on the existence of Mankind on this Earth.

"Why he didnt explain him what he means rather than ordering"
Honestly, i don't get you?God didn't explain why he shouldn't eat that fruit?Well God tought Adam everything, gave him brain, allowed him to make his decisions,God could have taken away his power to make decision and do whatever God tells him to do?Why didn't he do that?Why did Allah gave him freedom of choice?
If you can answer these questions only then you will understand why God didn't explain him, God wanted to test Adam because now when Adam knows Iblis is his enemy, how well does Adam use his brain, will he listen to Iblis or God.
**

I believe there is no respect in this story. God id behaving like headmaster. 'dont touch apple'. No questions to be asked. No wonder adam and eve left such a god. good for them. i think any attempts to go back to such a dictatorial god should be foiled, if the story is true.

**
"Cant god treat umans with respect. in that case why he asks humans to respect him"
I'm sorry to say, but this is a very stupid question.There is no comparison between GOD and human beings.We were created to respect our creator.God doesn't need us to respect Him, he can make us do anything he pleases but this is all His plan, he gave us brain, to think about Him, praise him with understanding that how Powerful Almighty is.
**

he may be powerful or maybe not. Unless he is going to treat me with respect, i see no reason to respect god. Why respect god, just because he will send me to heaven and give 72 virgins. No good reason, I say. It is like licking upto Hitler cuz he will give me some money. I need better reasons to respect god, and this story shows he is not worthy.

*"how did adam and eve come to earth after expelled from heaven was it a space shuttle"
How do we die?what happens to us when we die?Think about it, does our sole flies out of us or it sits in an aroplan or is it helicopter?Dear, we are talking about Godly powers,shuttle,helicopters,aroplans HE doesn't need all these because man created all this by using his brain and GOD gave us this brain of ours,if there was no brain, there won't be any helicopter or a shuttle.
*

I think unless we know where this heaven was, whether in our solar system or outside, difficult to know how they came to earth.

**
"does god still stick to heaven and keep an eye on earth,what is his machinary to do it"
-Once again i would repeat myself, we are talking about Godly powers not human creation.If he can make a statue made out of sand and water walk,talk,eat,grow He can do anything.Machinary?you kidding me?that is why HE IS GOD because he doesn't need any sort of machinery.
Gosh!!you need serious help!should i laugh at your stupidness or pitty you?
**

I would trather say a few laws of nature are running the show. Do we really need god. High time for god to retire.

**
"whom did adam and eve's children marry. or they had sex with their brothers, sisters, father and mother? how disgusting."
-Yes indeed, very disgusting but dear you will be shocked to know that only because of that disgustfullness you are here today.Eve use to give birth to twins at a time, and every twin married not his/her twin brother but the opposite sex brother/sister from the next pair.This was by the order of God, Eve was created from Adams body, was she his daughter?NO! that was the bigenning of man kind, but still that wasn't as disgusting as SINGLE woman marrying 5 brothers,when she has other choice.
**

if u really want to give a set of folk stories to people and teach them morals, why tell them that entire mankind is grown out of incestuous relationship.

Again why did mohammd marry 9 or thirteen women when he had choice to leave with one. If Draupadi's case is vulgur, so is Mohammad's.

**
ZZ you say:
"masooma, given the zeal with which u r dissecting the stories about hindu gods, i would like to know if u believe that adam and eve lived in heaven, ate apple and came to earth. if u believe that, what is ur problem believing that kali mata rode a tiger and killed a few deamons. the later story sounds more plausible to me"

Yes i believe in Adam and Eve and that they lived in heaven because its not what only Quran says but bible, torah also state the same FACT!!

If kali mata existed and rode a tiger is true then why did such a powerful lady die?And zz bhaiyai you admitted yourself that hinduism keeps on changing its beliefs.And why does your god looks so scary?gods are to bless children or scare them?I dont know about others, but when i see the pictures of all those gods of yours, its more of a scary view than impressive.
**

If I make Kenu reeves a god, will it be more acceptable to u.

Again 3 books saying same folk story does not make it true. As I said u belive Jesus is alive. If a person born 2000 yrs ago is alive, why cant kalimata ride tiger. U see people in circus riding tiger while u know none who lived 2000 years.

If one of ur prophets could talk to various animals, Kalimata could ride tiger. At least we see people riding tiger in circus. We dont see anyone talking to animals.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited August 11, 2000).]

ZZ, again instead of answering my question, u r looking elswhere. U simply can’t flock millions upon millions into something against their wish - an environment of compulsion can’t exist forever, Balkans & Russia are prime examples where muslims endured centuries of religious presecution. No need to mention how much state power was used to assimilate their religious identity achieving but little. Likewise if Islam was spread thr compulsive tactics, Pakistan would not have into existence in the first place

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Pakistan on ur western borders and 15 million muslims in ur rat infested, monkey admiring den simply takes the weight out of ur phony claims of mass forced conversion, otherwise answer my previously posted question and explain why we don’t see millions reverting back to the religion of their ancestors if they are the victims of forced conversion.

Now as for ur grudge about Jizya, we have talked about it before - but wat to do of the fact that u like to beat the drums with only half baked facts - another sign of ur head being stuck in b/w ur legs.

kk, talking in strong and obsene terms dont make ur arguments more worthwhile.

if a million follow something that does not make it correct. there are so many buddhists and hindus in world as well. why they are not correct as well.

and if u are ging to tell me that religion that says 2 female witnesses are equal to one male witness is logical, it is difficult to buy it.

u r muslim cuz ur parents were so. ur parents became muslim for reasons beyond their control.

“few people” stand no comparison to millions

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

and those few retards were mostly hippies & druggies of 70s who wanted to live like animals untouched by any moral or ethical limits. Their vision of life was limited to cracking pot, free sex & weird dressing They saw resemblance in their uncivilized dream world and hinduism and hence lurked into it that’s the complete story of how those “few people” embraced hinduism

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

You can whine about Hinduism as much as u like. That is besides the point. How many conversions happen by someone trying to read everything and make a comparative evaluation of religions or whatever.

I gave u an example of partition. Didnt lower caste Hindus exist in part which is partition today. Why they lost all their property, lives, their women were dishonored on the way., But they did not convert. They prefered to migrate.

The hindus remaining in Pakistan are almost exclusively lower caste. They are discriminated in every sense. Thy change their names to Christian ones, hide their idols, do everything except converting.

Conversions have occured only in extreme cases of torture when people had no alternative.

kk, talking in strong and obsene terms dont make ur arguments more worthwhile

yah rite and using such high words like "ass hole" really adds 4 stars on ur shoulder - rite??

there are so many buddhists and hindus in world as well. why they are not correct as well.

so many people goto school but not all students grasp wat they are taught and not all of'em ace their exams - why is that?

[quote]
Originally posted by KK:
**

kk, talking in strong and obsene terms dont make ur arguments more worthwhile
yah rite and using such high words like "ass hole" really adds 4 stars on ur shoulder - rite??
there are so many buddhists and hindus in world as well. why they are not correct as well.
so many people goto school but not all students grasp wat they are taught and not all of'em ace their exams - why is that?**
[/quote]

dildo got replied with asshole.
And if u r talking of intellectualism, read tripitakas of Buddha, rather than unintelligent, incoherent, mixed up religious books.
Buddha even tells people to check his statements against logic and accept only if they find valid, not trust blindly.
On the other hand u religions are those of shepherds, for primitive tribals.

KK,

so many people goto school but not all students grasp wat they are taught and not all of'em ace their exams - why is that?<<

It also depends on which school one likes to go to, to begin with, who is the curriculam writer and the examiner.

There is not just one good school and infact there are many and not just one way of learning a subject or defining a subject. The subject matter changes as we gain more insight and knowlegde - which is not limited in any way or form.

P.S. No good school will ban research and tell its students not to question but to accept the course book written by one profeesor.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited August 11, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited August 11, 2000).]

Conversions have occured only in extreme cases of torture when people had no alternative

by ur reasoning, there should not have been a single muslim left in balkans region then, where the only point of contetion has been religion. But if muslims there held onto their religion, definitely there's something that they found in Islam which no other religion could offer.

up until now, no answer from u about my questions, why don't we see 15 million muslims reverting back to hinduism, why Nizam -ud Din has become the center of one of the most vibrant revitalization attempt for Islamic teachings in modern times, do arabs come there directly from the peninsula for tableegh & preaching? and why forcibly converted muslims demanded for Pakistan instead of going back to hinduism??