They are considered a transional group and are called Punjabi-Pathans. Probably, this categorization has a justification.
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
I thought they were called Keeshne?...I dont know wat it means though:)
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
I thought they were called Keeshne?...I dont know wat it means though:)
Keeshne? What is that? Is it some celestial appellation or the name of a people?
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
…no its not a celestial appellation…it may be local word for em:)..I think it is:hmmm:
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
The reason they get classed as a "transitional group" is..
- They're found on the border areas of the two provinces so Punjabis consider them Pashtun and Pashtuns consider them Punjabi.
- Some are paternally descended from Pashtun tribes and still identify with their tribes intermarrying other Hindko tribes of Pashtun origin, it's like certain Hazaras and Tajik pockets in Afghanistan who are paternally descended from Pashtun tribes but speak Tajiki or Hazaragi dialects of Dari.
- Some Hindko people adopted Pashto (just as the Pashtuns I mentioned in #2 adopted Hindko or acquired it from their Hindko lineages), so these people identify as Pashtuns.
There are some Hindko people who still speak Hindko and always have done, they don't normally identify as Pashtun, there's other who are of mainland Punjabi origin and settled in Pashtun regions such as Awans.
It's not really clear-cut/black-white, they're a mongroloid people like any ethnicty/sub-ethncity from our regions with each tribe having their own history.
In my opinion I would class them as a sub-dialect of Punjabi as I would Pothari and Siraiki, Punjabi is a broad term not just the "balley-balley Majhi/Lahori Punjab", all these dialects are clearly ones language and language is the only real marker of ethncity, can't use race because even amongst the same dialect Punjabis are thoroughly mongroloid.
I would class people of Hindko past who speak Pashto as Pashtun and people of Pashtun past who speak Hindko as Punjabi, obviously your tribe/family doesn't change so it would mean Pashtun Awans and Punjabi Yusufzais.. Language is what defines your ethncity, other than that we're all culturally the same anyway, and I don't believe in concepts such as Pashtunwali, some things are good but they're also found in our religion together with guidance on how to implement those things, some of it is just too archaic.
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
Yeah I am full Pashtun, I speak Pashto and origin of NWFP. I have some step cousins who speak Hinko and live in Panjab. They only call themselves Pashtun, because of the Pashtun side of their family (us). However, i dont agree in the logic that your ethnicity is according to what language you speak - I speak, read and write Spanish, English and Hindi, Urdu and Arabic. Does that mean my ethnicity is a mixture of all these, just because I speak it? No, i consider myself 100% Pakistani Pathan - even though I was born in UK and raised in USA and Canada.
In my case, if you look at deep Pathan history - we are origins of Spain (think light hair and light eyes), me maybe I am ethnically part Spanish!
.. Language is what defines your ethncity, other than that we're all culturally the same anyway,.
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
Yeah I am full Pashtun, I speak Pashto and origin of NWFP. I have some step cousins who speak Hinko and live in Panjab. They only call themselves Pashtun, because of the Pashtun side of their family (us).
That's sad of them! I've never known somebody claim to be Pashtun or Punjabi just because of intermarriage, usually Panjabi speakers who refer to themselves as "Pashtun/Pathan" are those paternally descended from a Pashtun tribe.
My mum's side is Punjabi but my mum still calls herself a Punjabi even though she taught us we belong to our fathers' ethncity, of course we're as at home with Baba Bulley Shah as Khoshhaal Khan Khattak.
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However, i dont agree in the logic that your ethnicity is according to what language you speak - I speak, read and write Spanish, English and Hindi, Urdu and Arabic. Does that mean my ethnicity is a mixture of all these, just because I speak it? No, i consider myself 100% Pakistani Pathan - even though I was born in UK and raised in USA and Canada.
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When I said "language defining ethnicity", I didn't mean merely being able to speak a language but rather speaking it as a mother tongue at home and being part of a community/country which speaks it...
What else do you suggest we use as a marker of ethnicity? It can't be common race because we're all mongrels, in Pashtuns the Ghilzai (biggest Pashtun tribe) are of part Turkic origin, the Moshwanis are of Arab origin etc. It can't be any other aspect of culture because other than language I don't see any cultural differences in the lifestyle of Arab, Persian, Pashtun or Punjabi people living in urban areas...
Tribal lineage doesn't hold much weight, just because somebody is descended from a Pashtun tribe or Punjabi tribe doesn't mean they also belong to that ethnicity, by that logic the Ghilzai are Turks and the Moshwanis are Arabian..
Tribes are kind of irrelevant in this day and age anyway, I like ethnicities which don't have social barriers such as castes and they don't place too much importance on tribe with no well-known tribes so that anyone can seamlessly assimilate amongst them just by adopting their language such as the Persians.. I don't like the idea of carrying too many identities, they weigh you down.
Pakistani is not our ethnicity, it is our nationality but not ethnicty, some countries are both but Pakistan is a multi-ethnic Muslim confederation like a temporary/regional Caliphate not a ethnic-state. We're still proud of it ofcourse and all stand shoulder to shoulder under one Paki flag as Muslim brothers regardless of our ethnicities.
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In my case, if you look at deep Pathan history - we are origins of Spain (think light hair and light eyes), me maybe I am ethnically part Spanish!
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Spain!! Right okayyyyy, I don't even know why I'm replying to this... Look hun, those are just far fetched theories okay.. The Spanish are not the only light skinned people in the world, you want to have a read up on the Indo-Aryan invasion/migration oif the region and that's the reason for Caucasoid fesatures in our region, some areas the Aryans stayed purer than others, others they didn't mix at all but only passed on their languages hence the multitude of phenotypes amongst Indo-Iranian/Aryan speakers..
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
Yeah I did study it. I have a BA in South Asian studies and Hindi. I was talking about MY particular family. Before the Aryans arrived, there existed the Harappa culture and still remnants of that culture has been left behind within the Indian Subcontinent.
In response to your question, what should we use as a marker of ethnicity - i do believe that religion and culture should NOT mix. They are two completley different things that make up a society. India also has different "ethnic" make ups - there are the Tamils and the Gujarati's and so on, but in regards to Pakistan, I think that your ethnicity is dependent on what province you are from - the reason why I think that, is because the cultures are different in Pakistan province by province. Pakistan is different, as you mentioned to other countries. My culture is no where near the Panjabi culture, we say that the Panjabi culture is the same as the North Indian culture. Pathan culture is more related to of course Afghani and Arab, with still some differences.
Regardless of ethnicity though, we have to remember why Pakistan was formed in the first place? It was to make up an Islamic union, regardless of language.
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
Is your nick named after the "famous" bunny and honey from Abottabad?
Sorry, couldnt resist asking ;-)
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
Errrrrrrrr..... what!?!?! Who, why?? Whaaaaaaa??
Is your nick named after the "famous" bunny and honey from Abottabad? Sorry, couldnt resist asking ;-)
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
Hindko is a very diverse language.
If you start from Murree and go westwards you find a number of languages being called Hindko.
Take a person from Murree and take a person from Kohat. They'll think the other one is talking in Kumahariri, the ancient African language.
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
Errrrrrrrr..... what!?!?! Who, why?? Whaaaaaaa??
Never mind. Just had a strong urge to ask, couldnt resist.
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
What are niazis? punjabi, pathan, punjabi-pathan? :nahnah:
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
am i the blessed Oh Lord!
Re: Hindko-Speaking People!
^ Do you believe you are from the lost tribe of Israel??? 