Hindi Nahi Maloom *(about Hindi national language debate in India)

http://www.sulekha.com/articledesc.asp?cid=306470

I was at the New Delhi International Airport, flying out of Delhi to the USA. There was the routine immigration check, manned by a routine Hindi(only)-speaking immigration officer. Looked at me and my passport, once and then another time again, with that skeptical look only an Indian government officer could manage, he said something to me in Hindi, in a heavily-accented rural Hindi. I know Hindi, Hindi as in Hindi Prachar Sabha, and I can understand terms like raashtriya karyakram, samachar, pradhan mantri (from the days when Hindi-only TV was broadcast in Madurai) and can recite 1 to 1000 in Hindi, and know enough of the language to follow cricket scores in Hindi. But that utterance from the immigration officer was totally incomprehensible. I said, “Pardon me, Sir, can you repeat that again?” and he did that, and it was a digitally correct reproduction of the last one.

Okay, I thought, let me throw in the towel, and said, “Sorry! I don’t know Hindi.” He stared at me for a second and tore up my immigration form and gestured me out of the queue, and I was made to understand that I would have to fill the form once again and come back to the queue. I thought I had broken some written-in-blood-only-for-red-tape-not-explained-to-public rule of the Indian immigration act and so faithfully did what I was told to, only to find out the officer asking more questions in Hindi and thoroughly examining my passport, and then he said in Hindi that he suspected the authenticity of my passport. I assured him that I’d got the passport through legal methods and had used it several times while travelling abroad and had never had a problem before. He proceeded to inspect my passport with the cap of a well-used ballpoint pen. I requested him not to damage my passport and demanded to see his supervisor.

When the supervisor came, they both muttered a few short fast words to each other and then pronounced that I had been cleared and could proceed. Being the inquisitive spirit that I am, I asked that question, “Why?” The answer was that the officer had become ‘suspicious’ of me because I hadn’t answered his questions ‘properly’ and so thought it might have been a stolen passport, and wanted to ‘test’ me by sending me out once and since I had come back it was proven that I was a ‘genuine’ case. Wow! What an uncanny law-enforcement technique! If I were fluent in Hindi, would I have been a ‘genuine’ case then? I was appalled by the people who let Dawood Ibrahim go with a normal visa and passport, but are ‘suspicious’ of a person not ‘properly’ answering questions in Hindi, even after insisting that I don’t speak that language, or at least not that officer’s version of it!

I know you might want to think of this as an isolated incident perpetrated by an ignorant or chauvinist individual. Sadly, that is not the case. This happened to me again at the Indian embassy in London, when a group of our friends was there since one of our passports was stolen.

Once when I was visiting Toronto and had, like a typical tourist, got lost, I started asking directions from a group of cabbies idling in a street corner. A Sardarji promptly asked me if I was from India, and then proceeded with rapid instructions, of course in chaste Hindi. I know ‘left’ and ‘right’ from my days in the National Cadet Corps, but couldn’t keep up with his instructions. I stopped him for a moment and said that I didn’t know Hindi (I said that in Hindi! “Hindi Nahi Maloom!”) and he was surprised by that and said he would only give instructions in Hindi. I replied, “I would have to ask somebody else then!” A similar incident also happened in another unlikely place – a US federal government office, where we met a Punjabi-American who was appalled when I told her I don’t speak Hindi, and yes, I am from India.

See, I am ready to speak Hindi when I am in a place like Haryana or when I’m with a Hindi-speaking friend. These cases are entirely different. Why should I speak Hindi because I am an Indian? Why should it be automatically assumed that I know Hindi since I am from India? That too in ‘neutral’ venues outside India. As an Indian citizen it is not my duty to learn Hindi, and hence, the embassy or the immigration official should not expect me to speak the language. I could never really figure this out.

Whenever I bring this point up, I am accused of being an anti-national or a Dravidian chauvinist or a Tamil extremist. It is not fair at all, and I assure you I am none of the above. I’m just someone who’s puzzled about this Indian-Hindi identity and am trying to make sense of it. Looking at the history of anti-Hindi agitations in Tamil Nadu and the eventual backing-off of pro-Hindi imposers and the later irrelevance of Hindi education after liberalization, it is very clear that this ‘expect to speak Hindi’ syndrome has historical roots. This problem has some analogs in the world. The Scots and the Irish have also suffered under similar linguistic domination, and their languages and cultures are now over-shadowed and buried by the English. Back home the ‘Hindi-like’ languages like Punjabi and Marathi have suffered heavily from the domination of Hindi. How many Marathi movies are released nowadays? I am not implying that the number of movies released reflects the health of any language, but it is one of the many signs of health.

I am also appalled by the South Indians’ amazing ability and willingness to speak Hindi/Urdu and the opposite attitude of northerners to speak any of the four languages from the South. Udit Narayan and Sadhana Sargam continue to bludgeon Tamil and Telugu to death with their excruciating renditions of movie songs, but S. P. Bala or Chitra always do justice to their salaries when they do Hindi numbers. Millions of Tamils speak, read and write Hindi so fluently, even if they haven’t been anywhere further north of North Chennai, but a group of northies lending money in Madurai since the ice age speak a pathetic Tamil with no tense, knowledge of numbers or grammar. So, learning Hindi does not come under the banner of cultural exchange, since it is not two-way, even in the most dilute interpretation of the term.

Emotions aside, why should anyone learn Hindi at all? You could learn Urdu or Arabic or Bengali or Tamil or Sanskrit for their rich literature and poetry; Telegu for Carnatic music; or for that matter German to read original Nietzsche. I just wonder what Hindi has to offer, except possibly for the unrealistic-cloying-nonsense from Bollywood?!

In today’s globalized world English makes the most sense as the language of communication even within India. You have to learn English anyway. And even as a communication language, Hindi is a bit handicapped due to its starkly different flavors – you can not speak like Laloo Prasad and be understood in rural Punjab. Can you? The Sanskritized Hindi that I can speak would be laughed at in any UP hamlet.

Diversity is the greatest asset of India. An Indian could be a Muslim, a Jain or a Parsi, a tribal or a fisherman, and shall speak in Hindi or Assamese or Malayalam. Let us brand ourselves with our diversity, rich cultural history and heritage and with our Indian identity, let us not brand ourselves with a language that is not spoken by all and which was ‘invented’ as a ‘convenience’. It has nothing to do with the languages of the South/East, and since it is similar to the languages of the North, it has the potential to fade them all into itself.

Do Pakistanis expect all Pakistani citizens to speak Urdu? Many Indians do not speak and understand Hindi. South Indians, Bengalis and Mahrashtrians are considered more attached to their mother tongue than Hindi.

Welcome to the world of linguistic imperialism. Once 3% Urdu speakers in Pakistan define what and how Pakistani culture is going to be and once 20% Hindi speakers defining what India is, considering everyone else from mars and must assimilate.

After the fall of Bangladesh 6% of Pakistanis consider Urdu as their mother tongue.

The percentage of people knowing Urdu would be much higher.

The percentage of Hindi speakers is much higher. Around 60% of India's population understand Hindi.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by durango: *
Do Pakistanis expect all Pakistani citizens to speak Urdu?
[/quote]

Yup.

Channji,

ay 3% the figure kithon kudya jay?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Channji,

ay 3% the figure kithon kudya jay?
[/QUOTE]

think it's more like 8 or 10%

In 1947, it was around 3% in present day Pakistan. Now it is about 8-10% who consider Urdu their mother tongue. I am sure people who can understand Urdu are more than that.

The percentage of Pakistanis who have Urdu as the mother tongue are at about 8-10 %. The people who can understand Urdu lie between 70-75 %. Since Punjabi is quite similar to Urdu, and the Punjabi speakers are about 50 % of Pakistan's total population. Then we have the Urdu speaking cities of Karachi and Hyderabad. Even in NWFP, and Balochistan the mode of instruction in most schools is in Urdu.

Urdu is well understood throughout Pakistan. I never had a problem speaking Urdu to anybody in Punjab, Sindh, NWFP, Baluchistan and Kashmir!

Pakistan Zindabad!

Indians speak whatever. We don't care!

vivek u chose a wrong forum. no one cares two hoots for any indian issues other than military/defence.

off topic: my Urdu high school teacher told us once; the hindi we hear in the indian movies is not really hindi most of it is urdu e.g. in urdu we say " tashreef rakheya" nd in actual hindi it is "chutar takeya"..... :)

Urdu ours, Hindi theirs! Story finished.

Re: Hindi Nahi Maloom *(about Hindi national language debate in India)

:k: :k::k:

but sure u missed a point. suppose u r travelling to orrisa or may be sounthern bengal, and u have to talk to a shopkeeper or some ricksaw-puller, friend they dnt understand english and being a common man they understant a lil bit of hindi ( may be reason being closeness of all indian languages) and that only comes to your rescue. I dnt say its good , but it helps. Anyways well said :k:

here's one of the responses from that site and from a guy named mehta (gujarati i think) that was the 335th response and last of them as of a few minutes ago which is one of the highest ever.

Indian Teen-Good point. I didnt write this if u think I did.

laeeqkhan- yes of course for the most part but that's not the topic.

munnabhai- haha to a degree u r right of course the other thread in hear about brahmins wearing the hijab got twice as many replies so far and this is probably a more interesting topic. Of course again the article is too long. Hey u weren't on masala or americandesiz by any chance?

For a long time, the north and north Indians considered themselves superior to those in the south. Thats why we had those caricatures of 'madrasis' in bollywood movies. But with economic reforms over the last decade and with the emergence of the Premjis and Narayan Murthys, the pendulum has swung irreversibly towards to the side of the south. When we talk about South India , we talk about the modern industries (not just the IT-sector, there is much more to the south) , the army of highly skilled professionals , prevalence of law and order, smooth administration, minimal poverty atleast in the cities - A picture of India as we want it to be, atleast a sign that India is moving in the right direction.

But in the north...all we have are the Lalloos and Mayavatis, the mulayams and the rabri devis,caste politics and religious fundementalism. A deeply politicised society with zero productivity. All round poverty made worse by extraordinary flaunting of ill-gotten wealth by corrupt bureaucracy and the political class.

When people talk about India and Pakistan being the same or about the similarities between India and Pakistan...what they really mean is the similarities between North India and Pakistan. There isn't much of a difference between north India and North Indians and Pakistan and Pakis. They are well and truly brothers. The degenerate punjabis, biharis and up-wallahs have more in common with the pakis than with the south Indians.

India can never be a rich nation or an economic superpower as long as the states like UP, Bihar, Rajasthan,MP and even West Bengal continue to be a part of India. Much of the poverty and degredation and depravity associated with India is concentrated in these parts. They contribute nothing to the economy bu continue to be blood suckers...a black hole on India. Because of their enormous population, these states will dominate the political scene in India. The political leaders will continue to be from these states and they will always be disastrous to the rest of us.

South India along with Maharashtra and Gujarat will be a great economic entity, with all required resources , the smartest people, and without the influence of the massive draining power of the north will be one of the major economies of the world in no time.

North India will do well to merge with their real brothers the Pakis and Bangladeshis and rot. The smartest among the north Indians (very few in number) will do well to migrate to south India where they will be welcomed or to the west.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by vivek: *

munnabhai- haha to a degree u r right of course the other thread in hear about brahmins wearing the hijab got twice as many replies so far and this is probably a more interesting topic. Of course again the article is too long. Hey u weren't on masala or americandesiz by any chance?

[/QUOTE]

the story that u posted is exclusively indian. pakistanis will never understand the feelings of the author.
also no relation to americandesi. i live in india(mumbai)

[QUOTE]

For a long time, the north and north Indians considered themselves superior to those in the south. Thats why we had those caricatures of 'madrasis' in bollywood movies.

[/QUOTE]

True. but that is more to do because the only people who were great achievers were the ones who fought the brits. and no one can dispute the contribution of the north.

[QUOTE]

But with economic reforms over the last decade and with the emergence of the Premjis and Narayan Murthys, the pendulum has swung irreversibly towards to the side of the south........ - A picture of India as we want it to be, atleast a sign that India is moving in the right direction.

But in the north............ wealth by corrupt bureaucracy and the political class.

[/QUOTE]

true that south india is speeding on the economic fast track while the north is languishing. but south will pull the north upwards in the coming decades.

[QUOTE]

When people talk about India and Pakistan being the same or about the similarities between India and Pakistan...what they really mean is the similarities between North India and Pakistan. There isn't much of a difference between north India and North Indians and Pakistan and Pakis. They are well and truly brothers. The degenerate punjabis, biharis and up-wallahs have more in common with the pakis than with the south Indians.

[/QUOTE]

true even this.

[QUOTE]

India can never be a rich nation or an economic superpower as long as the states like UP, Bihar, Rajasthan,MP and even West Bengal continue to be a part of India. Much of the poverty and ......................The smartest among the north Indians (very few in number) will do well to migrate to south India where they will be welcomed or to the west.
[/QUOTE]

this is the part i strongly disagree with. south india by itself can be a rich nation. but then can it be a strong, great nation? in all probability no. it will remain one of the many medium sized nations. for india to achieve its place among the great nations, nothr and south india will have to remain united.
north will follow south in the economic progress. the only thing needed is some reform. best achieved by reorganization of states. the noth can hijack the central government because of the weight it enjoys in the government. if the states r reorganized they will become manageable facilitating economic progress.
and dont forget the North-east.

My experience has been quite different from that of Vivek. My Hindi is quite pathetic (a few words I picked while in Mumbai) and I have spent significant time in New Delhi, Punjab, Ahmedabad, Bangalore. I've also spent a a week or two in places like Kolkota, Allahabad, Patna. NOT ONCE have I felt I was forced to speak in Hindi. Ofcourse I had difficulty in communicating with people in these places who couldn't speak English but they tried and I tried and we always got the message across.

If this was one incidence I will not offer it as an objection to the premise of the discussion here but this I experienced again and again from towns small and big across the country.

Ofcourse there will be some people who are Hindi bigots just like there are Tamil bigots and urdu bigots and Hebrew bigots. So what? Let's not invent another 'imperialism' angle just because there are a few such experiences. The only reason I go on about this is because so many people just jump in and pile on and the next thing you know we are talking about UP or Bihar somehow bringing India down!

Note : I DID NOT WRITE THIS COLUMN I have no experience with this as I'm American born and raised.

Vivek :nuch:

I’m American born and raised"..why dont you say the full acronym ABCD..??? :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

India has very drastic different groups of people with much more differences in languages than in Pakistan

Hindi should not be language of billions when only few hundred million people speake as mother tongue.What makes hindi claim more over any other regional language …If it is few million more speakers it is not write.

If it is b/c hind is the most developed like case of URDU in PAkistan then it could be but literature wise the only language which has been given Booker Pulitzer,Nobel are onlt two …English & BENGALI …

So why not make Bengali national language:rolleyes:

o.k. then ENGLISH :ahaa: