High time for some customer care

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

May be it is not the proper term, but we need to do some cleaning in our ranks…

Following is what one non-muslim has to say about problems with muslims By not doing something practical !

Quote–
The Christian faith has evolved with the times to be tolerant of others. (though we also had our days of intolerance) It is Islam that will not tolerate any other belief except the Koran and are willing to assissinate innocent women and children to further said belief.

If this is what Mohammed teaches then he is indeed a false prophet. There can be no argument. If you argue this is not what he teaches then I would say his followers need to do some house cleaning within their ranks.

I am still waiting for the Islamic community to actually do something about these extremists. Something a little more than just repeating that the **Koran does not teach the murdering of innocents and bring these scumbags to justice. **

**I for one will have no sympathy for any of them as long as they continue to just give us lip service. Actions speak louder than words. If the guy who lives next door to me was running around killing people, I would do a little more than apologize for him. I would at least have the authorities paying him a visit. **

They need to unite against the radicals and exterminate them and start teaching their young people that this is the 21st century not the middle ages! Change must come from within!

–Unquote

In my view, it is just an honest complaint. I know that my brothers here will jump to counter arguments by saying that Innocent muslims are killed every where and no one cares about them … so on

Take for example, every good organization needs to pay heed to customer’s complaints. If customer says that there are lots of bugs in Microsoft’s windows, the company can not counter-argue, that
look sir, there may be problems with our product but look at our situation, lots of companies are after us, we have to face many law suites and hackers are after us because we earn a lot of money :confused:

Instead they will rectify the problem as soon as possible, to satisfy the customer.

Are we doing, good customer care or bad ?

Lets face it Muslims and Islam are inter-related. We can not say that one is good other is bad. It defies logic.

2

The problem is that Muslims do not ‘study’ Islam; they only ‘learn’ it. For this reason against any arguments they have robot type answers.

‘Customer service’ is a wrong heading, I think so.

3

Given that one has 'faith' in Islam, he only needs to study/learn as fas are as the following requires. An indepth study is the job of the scholars I think. Its incorrect to expect the ordinary followers to answer each and every question and that too in great depth. If someone is genuinely interested to detailed seek information about Islam then he should contact the appropriate experts.

I personally think that half of the issues discussed in this forum as just questions for the sake of questions and, therefore, not healthy.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: *
The problem is that Muslims do not ‘study’ Islam; they only ‘learn’ it. For this reason against any arguments they have robot type answers.

‘Customer service’ is a wrong heading, I think so.
[/QUOTE]

4

Regarding the 'customer service'.... no one disagrees that such violent acts are condemnable and should be stopped. Muslims should try their level best to put them to an end -- infact put every injustice to an end.

Having said that, I would have bowed my head to this 'complaint' if the people in other religions were angels and would be doing there customer service as required. The problems that Muslims have today didn't appear all of a sudden and they won't go all of a sudden. It will take time. However, as long as we are a part of a group who is doing honest effort to correct them, there is no reason we need to feel subdued or pressurized by the non-Muslims. On the other hand, we need to feel proud that, as opposed to them, we atleast have the right faith as required by Allah.

Yes, Islam is the only correct faith on the face of earth and, without this belief, a Muslims cannot be a Muslim. However, Islam also teaches tolerance with people of other beliefs, which unfortunately has become rather scarce in the present times.

5

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ramyssysIX: *

Having said that, I would have bowed my head to this 'complaint' if the people in other religions were angels and would be doing there customer service as required.

[/quote]

[quote]
Yes, Islam is the only correct faith on the face of earth and, without this belief, a Muslims cannot be a Muslim.

[/QUOTE]

Your former statement nullifies your later statement by the rule of logic. If there is no faith like Islam on earth, than how can you compare it with other religions ?

6

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ramyssysIX: * An indepth study is the job of the scholars..
[/quote]

No.. people need to study their own religion..not borrow it from someone elses understanding..we're all answerable for our own deeds.. we can't be excused for 'following scholars'.

7

What I meant by 'bowing' is to be apologitic. If a bunch of people among Muslims start defaming the religion, it doesn't mean that other Muslims should start thinking about other religions and make comparisons. A Muslim should have a strong enough faith to avoid that.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Code_Red: *

Your former statement nullifies your later statement by the rule of logic. If there is no faith like Islam on earth, than how can you compare it with other religions ?
[/QUOTE]

8

I agree with that as far as the practical implications on a person's life are concerned. However, there are so many other domains that religious knowledge encompasses: judicial, economics, political, jurisprudence, Ilm-e-Tafseer, Ilm-e-Hadith etc. Do you think an ordinary person has abilities to deal with that?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

No.. people need to study their own religion..not borrow it from someone elses understanding..we're all answerable for our own deeds.. we can't be excused for 'following scholars'.
[/QUOTE]

9

customer service?? ahem, you sound like some how islam needs followers, because a company definately needs customers, but the thing with islam is that the followers need it. it is independent. followers follow it for their own good. so there is no need for "customer" service. if some one dont accept it, they can leave it. i mean try complaining to a monopoly and see if it cares about what you think. islam is just that, a monopoly but a good one that it provides them service at no charge but only asks complete submission from its "customers" but if customers try to change it, they are kicked out.

10

Can we find the reasons, why Islam is in conflict with other communities, societies and religions since Prophet’ days?

11

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anjjan: *
Can we find the reasons, why Islam is in conflict with other communities, societies and religions since Prophet’ days?
[/QUOTE]

may be because it is the true religion, and it what the God wants not what humans want ?

12

After accepting Islamic faith, it automatically becomes incumbant on him that he present Islam in best possible way to non-muslims to attract them and not repel them (which sadly we are doing now)

One of the quranic verse goes like that...*" you(muslims) are the best among people, because you uphold virtue and condemn wrongdoing" *

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
customer service?? ahem, you sound like some how islam needs followers, because a company definately needs customers, but the thing with islam is that the followers need it. it is independent. followers follow it for their own good. * so there is no need for "customer" service. if some one dont accept it, they can leave it. i mean try complaining to a monopoly and see if it cares about what you think. islam is just that, a monopoly but a good one that it provides them service at no charge but only asks complete submission from its "customers" but if customers try to change it, they are kicked out. **
[/QUOTE]

The above post clearly indicate how bad spokemen, we are for our religion. Never even a manopoly, Terms itself a 'MONOPOLY' because it is a negative term to begin with.

In my first post, I gave example of Microsoft, which it self has a monopoly over consumer OS market. Do you see them to be complacent ? Do they not strive for overall improvement and reducing complaints ?

Now if some non-muslim comes to us, saying he like the teaching of Islam, but the hippocratic behavior of Muslims that repels him.
What do we say to him ? like '* Hey bud, we are like that, this is the package deal, take it or leave it. You surely going to burn in hell if you don't accept Islam*'

^^ is this the right approach ?

Islam is certainly perfect, but duty muslims now is to overcome the contradictions, non-muslims see in teachings of Islam and what muslims believe and practice now.

13

People really need to meet the other 1 billion muslims who don't blow things up...

Trust me, most of what is going on has very little to do with Islam. Our colonial experience has kinda screwed most of us over and we're using religion as a means to orient and unite ourselves.

I say give us some time to actually settle down from the havok the west has caused. We're unfamiliar with democracy and are inherently suspcious of whatever the 'west' wishes to introduce to us (last time they did it with guns)...

So, to sum up, I think it all comes down to letting muslims find themselves. I'm not trying to lessen the blame nor am I trying to make the west look evil. Islam never worked well with swords. It worked better with reason and innovation.

14

Dear Code_red I assure you that you will reach no where in this thread.

Here you are…confirming the robot system of Islam….

One of the quranic verse goes like that..." you(muslims) are the best among people, because you uphold virtue and condemn wrongdoing"

One another verse says…deaf and dumb will reject the ayats.

Many verses say….whoever rejects the ayats will burn in hell fire.

And off course…there is no God other than Allah.

Peace in Islam is only for Muslims,…slay them wherever you find them.

And all this end your own conclusion….What do we say to him ? like ' Hey bud, we are like that, this is the package deal, take it or leave it. You surely going to burn in hell if you don't accept Islam'

I don’t think that one (fundamentalist) section of Muslims is doing anything wrong. In other words this fundamentalist section is actual follower of Islam.

15

^ Well it is not any problem with Quran and Islam as a matter of fact. This is the sole reason people convert to Islam, despite our pathetic condition.

**A message for Muslim brothers! **

…

Please differentiate between Jihaad and act of cowardliness. Not going into long philosophical details of jihad, Killing an American soldier in Iraq is Jihaad, while slaying a handcuffed aid worker is NOT. And those who are doing this, are helping Enemies of Islam. Not only it is against the basic teaching of Islam but also it is an extremely cowardly act. And ** A Mujahid can never be a coward **

Brave Afghans did Jihaad against soviet invasion for decades. Muslims around the world supported them morally, financially; Because Afghans were not confused about enemy. They knew exactly whom to kill. And bomb the invaders, not their own countrymen. They may not be literate but they definitely knew who is the invading enemy.

Killing occupation forces in Iraq is perfect jihaad. They came to conquer. Iraqis have every right to fight them and roast them in their own tanks.
We know American and British will not able bear some mighty blows , they will run away from Iraq after few hundred of their soldiers are killed. Specially british forces are very vulnerable.

But killing innocent civilians or foreign aid worker is actually harming Islam very badly. These people are here to help the sick, wounded, and homeless. They were against the wars and atroticities. They actually protested against war in millions, on the streets of Europe, when we Muslims were sleeping in our homes.

There are hundred of non-Muslims who were ready to convert to true faith but the massacre in baslin and on going slaying of innocent and un armed civilian has repelled them.

Please don’t slain humanity. :flower1:

16

do you know abu musaf al zarqawi has posted a message asking the group holding margret hassan to relase her? because they said we dont kill innocents and they even abort missions if possible if there is danger of killing muslims. so you see all is not just "terrorist" muslims runing around in iraq as cnn tells u. stop watching american news cuz it provides nothing for us. dont wanna believe muslim news fine, dont read ANY news, getting news from a biased sourced will only corrupt your heart.

and YES MUSLIMs should get their act straight, but islam is perfect and no one should change it to please others.

17

Dear Code_rode, problem with you and with millions of Muslims is that they live in a fantasy world. To each and every criticism they have a ready made answer that more and more non-Muslims are willing to convert to the true faith.

Once you have made up your mind about the surety of truthful ness of your faith, there is no scope left for any discussion.
I told you earlier that you were not going to reach anywhere in this thread.

This is your conversion myth…..

Sometimes I think why mass conversions have vanished. It is history of mid centuries; villages after villages were accepting Islam.
Off course, that is another thing how much mass conversions were voluntary? Was it possible for Imams to convince all those illiterates, each one in person, and they came into the light of Islam?
And, if illiterates in mid centuries could convert to Islam, what is wrong with literates of the present world?
I know that Muslims do not like this question.

Islamic press, as well as, Christian press has created this myth that people are converting to Islam. For one this propaganda is a matter of pride and for other it is an instrument of threat.

In Europe or America how many conversions take place in real, and how many of them are genuine, and not just for enjoying the spectacle?

Very few accept Islam for spiritual reasons in today’ world. Some genuine ones do so for mental disturbances, or for exposing their revolting nature.
And off course era of mass conversions is over and dead. Does any Muslim have courage to explain it?

18

Code_red, Jihad……for you killing an American soldier is Jihad. And killing a western aid worker in Iraq is not Jihad.
Whom shell I believe, you or a hard core Muslim?

Bin Laden justifies killings of civilian Americans.
Reason? They are tax payers of American army.

19

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
do you know abu musaf al zarqawi has posted a message asking the group holding margret hassan to relase her? because they said we dont kill innocents and they even abort missions if possible if there is danger of killing muslims. so you see all is not just "terrorist" muslims runing around in iraq as cnn tells u. * stop watching american news cuz it provides nothing for us. dont wanna believe muslim news fine, dont read ANY news, getting news from a biased sourced will only corrupt your heart. **
and YES MUSLIMs should get their act straight, but islam is perfect and no one should change it to please others.
[/QUOTE]

Actually I do not need to see the western media or any media to feel the presence of extremism in Muslims. Tell you the hardcore reality, when I go to masjid for prayers I have 50% chance of coming back alive or in one piece. Just because some of my faithful brother might blow up himself and other people while they are praying and give them ticket to hell. And no THIS IS NO EXAGERATION. This is true picture.

And I can’t issue politically correct statement like “** No muslim can do this act "**
Because sadly I know too much. Things I want to erase from my mind. I know how much intolerant muslims are. There are normal so-called educated muslims who would beat you to death if you pray slightly different in their masjid.

This extemism and intolerance is the result of decades of brainwashing of muslims by religious thugs. Sadly if has grown out of proportion.

To correct ourselves we need to admit our weakness in present day scenario

[Quote]
]*Originally posted by anjjan: *
Can we find the reasons, why Islam is in conflict with other communities, societies and religions since Prophet’ days?
[/quote]

Dear Anjjan

This claim of yours is totally wrong and baseless, the conflict you see now is not more than a few decades old. Islam has always been an incredibly tolerant religion. Check out history. Find out about the conquest of Jerusalem by muslims and compare it with that of Christians, Learn about arrival of Muhammad bin Qasim in India, find out about Muslim rule of Spain, also see in your backyard, The Mughal Empire lasted around 1000 year in predominantly Hidu India. How many incidents of intolerance you can find ???