With all due respect to yourself, sir, you mean “O Muslims”.
You need to learn a whole lot more about Islam before discarding it as religion (from God). God didn’t send Jesus AH for “Christianity”, this is what you guys have made out of his message, God sent Jesus AH for “monotheism” but you guys made him son of God thats why God sent Mohammed PBUH.
Question is not how “good” a prophet was, nobody questions “goodness” of Jesus or Moses or Mohammed, but the question is of the faith. People amended the faith those 2 (Jesus and Moses) delievered thats why God sent Mohammed so people go back to the message again.
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^ sorry but that's failed logic. First of all there are no more advanced guidance or precision radar systems in the world outside of the DOD, in spite of the tiny percentage of stray bombs you mention. You show your inability to discern the truth through your biases by comparing the most sophisticated machinery in the history of mankind to head lice. And I guess you would see it as a pain for someone to address inaccuracies, questionable practices and hypocritical positions since you seem to rely on ancient texts and other peoples’ interpretations of those texts to make any kind of point.
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Sorry but he replied to your comment in the first line when he said:
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Ok, so no Muslim intentionally prays to Madinah.
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You are trying too hard...
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*Originally posted by mufakkar: *
You are trying too hard...
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Someone said " no muslim prays facing towards medina", like they have some laser like ability to face Mecca and Mecca only. I'm just pointing out that they are indeed facing Medina whether it's intentional or not. Things aren't so black and white like so many think.
Believe me, you would know if I was trying too hard. I would say something about how silly I think it is that some believe God would have us pray on a timetable facing a certain city with only certain people allowed to be present.
But Seminole, when we are facing Makkah we are also facing towards what ever lays in-between Makkah and us. So that doesn’t mean that we are praying towards all other things in the way as well, Madina or Jerusalem the intention should be to face Kaaba and pray.
Peace...
Minime, prayers should be so powerful that it should destroy anything that come between Kabba and You. Amen.
Originally posted by jab: *
**Before God - there is no Torah, no Quran. GOD’S TEN COMMANDMENTS ALONE REMAINS. *
how do we really know that there are 10 commandments, and how do we really know that they are from god? and if their is no guidance to be sought from torah or bible or quran ..or for that matter gita or any other guidebook out there, would 10 commandments be enough to cover all the challenges of modern world?
additionally isn't it not just in faith but also in practice..many may say they believe in the ten commandements, but it appears that many do not really abide by them.
*O Islam, Do you want to suspect the authenticity of the tablets of stone. Do you want to throw the remaining physical evidence and wait for another prophet like - Moses or Jesus? Muhammad is not that good as Moses or Jesus. *
and moses or jesus may not be as good as abraham who may not be as good as noah who may not be as good as ram who may not be as good as adam who may not be as good as some prophet we dont even know about..
**SUBMITTING TO GOD IS UPTO YOU, Islam.
2) If, by chance, you try to observe Sabbath on Friday, then transfer it to Saturday. If Jews / Moses observed Sabbath on Saturday, M ( Muslims / Monotheists ) also should on Saturday.
Jews are monotheists, by the way. **
and there should be no cheating on sabaath, like asking neighbours to turn lights on for you and other assorted practices like that.
** The Friday prayer is an addition to Ten Commandments. If God wanted it this way, he would have told Moses to offer special prayers on Friday. He did not say to Moses. So Friday prayer does not matter. It does not add anything new. **
but dinn god say stuff to messengers before moses? so if he wanted it that way why wait until moses, why not tell it to noah or abraham or Lot?
so if god reaaaaally wanted it that way he would have appeared to every person being born and told them personally. this whole business of telling someone to tell others seems a bit tough dunn it? reminds me of chinese whispers..by the time god's word gets to somone via a prophet-priest-assorted clergy and thelogists-local preacher..it could just change..
** ( Jews ) and C ( Christians ) cannot understand Muhammad’s desire or understanding of need for special prayer on Friday.**
And wiccans and druids etc dont understand christian and jewish prayers...the point being?
*3) The Stones represent physical evidence of God’s covenant. If you insist - Quran’s Sura 7 is the answer. *
So a Sura is acceptable as evidence as long as it supports your point :) what about the other Suras?
*The people who are in contact with this physical evidence and are protecting them will not accept Quran. *
which physical evidence will that be :) stones with inscription on it? from what I know their are stones with inscriptions on it which predate jesus and moses, they could be found in egypt, in India and all over south america..and by the same reason..they will not accept torah or the new testament.
and then there were people who existed way before such drwaings and inscriptions came into being..and they may not accept RA or Apollo or Zues :)
*4) Question is - Is Quran better than ten commandments. If the command from God directed mankind to observe Sabbath, then Monotheists should follow the command. *
God also asked ppl to eat kosher dinn he..? and not eat pork, and if i recall there may have been something about alcohol also..
anything not covered by ten commandments is thus against god's will?
*Jews are Monotheists. Christians believe on Jesus also. *
believe "in" jesus. although the whole concept jesus as god had thrown a little bit of a wrench in the montheism deal..until numerous chritian theologists further defined the trinity concept
*A Monotheist cannot break Ten Commandments. *
looking around, i think many montheists break the ten commandments on a daily basis :)
*For Christians, God gave his convenant and allowed it to be broken by His Son Jesus as well as condensed to new command. *
That is if Jesus was his son right? some believe it some dont, and lets forget about just the abramahamic religion followers, do you think zoroastrians would agree with that?
I mean why would God send a ruling and then send his son to break it? and if he can change his mind once why cant he change his mind again?
*Jesus was hated by Jew because he healed people on the Sabbath day. Jesus cites David as an example. It is possible for Jesus. No, certainly Not for Muhammad. *
Jesus was hated by jews? I dont think so
*5) MU ( Muhammad ) is not in any exalted status as JES ( Jesus ). MU is only one among the thankful. MU did not ascend to Heaven. He lived and died like anyother member of mankind. So MU cannot proclaim the breaking of covenant of God - The ten commandments and the Ark. *
following that logic the question still remains..why would god want to set rules and then change them?
Hajj and prayer towards Mecca.
Muhammad wanted to reduce the importance of Jerusalem and steal the show from Muslim. But he knew he cannot control the people immediately. So he decided to slowly wean them. First, he let them pray towards Jerusalem, say for 6 months. Then he asked them to turn and pray towards Mecca. During this cushion period, he increased his grip on the people. ( He may have asked them - “whether they noticed any difference between praying towards Jerusalem and Mecca” ).
8) Jerusalem is a place of importance to Jews because, the God’s words and the Ark was there. The house of their God was also there. It was not so for Muslims. Muslims have no share on Jewish inheritance.
Okay then..and before teh jews came about there were others..maybe hindus, maybe some sort of druids..they can say the same that some place is meaningful to them and by their rules others dont have a claim :)
*9) Please check whether your prayer hours resemble the crucifiction hours of Jesus. Even Christians think of Crucifiction of Jesus only once in a year. Muslims do it every week. You seem to be observing the crucifiction of Jesus more than Christians do. *
was jesus crucified 5 times a day? oh and btw I was just told in a previous post that when chritians accept the bread and wine at church they commemorte the crucifiction .
anyways, all my points above were hypothetical and theoretical just to illustrate a point.
I have the utmost respect for jesus and moses and all other prophets. Maybe the world would be a much better place if all the followers of all the prophets decided to really lived their life according to the basic principles every prophet has advocated.
<And We wrote for him, upon the tablets> Quran
Moses’ Torah
Muslims consider themselves believers and the rest of the world non-believers.
Let Muslims show their reverence to Ten Commandments and the Ark first more than they do to Quran, and then spread their belief as religion to Disbelievers.
There can be no compromise until Muslims give primary importance to Ten Commandments and secondary importance to Quran.
Till then, Muslims can continue complaining about the disobedience of Jews and jealousy of Christians and the outcast Hindus. END OF MESSAGE
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*Originally posted by jab: *
*Muslims consider themselves believers and the rest of the world non-believers. *
and others do not?
*Let Muslims show their reverence to Ten Commandments and the Ark first more than they do to Quran, and then spread their belief as religion to Disbelievers.
*
But why?
There can be no compromise until Muslims give primary importance to Ten Commandments and secondary importance to Quran.
No comprmise with whom?
By the same token christians should show reverence first to jewish teachings and then to christian teachings? so no more communions, no more christmas.
and by the same token, everyone should look to abraham :)
and yet once again. everyone who supposedly believes in the ten commandments..does nto follow them..do they now??
*Till then, Muslims can continue complaining about the disobedience of Jews and jealousy of Christians and the outcast Hindus. END OF MESSAGE *
where do hindus fit in a discussion of abrahamic religion (unless you assume the brahma = abraham etc etc) and unless you new nick will eventually be found out as well ..try as you may the writing style does not change ;)
anyways..
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*Originally posted by jab: *
....
There can be no compromise until Muslims give primary importance to Ten Commandments and secondary importance to Quran.
....
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You are a very confused person, at times you discard Islam totally as not being God's religion, then you somewhat accept it as God's religion. Have you made up your mind yet whether Islam is God's religion or not?
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Believe me, you would know if I was trying too hard. I would say something about how silly I think it is that some believe God would have us pray on a timetable facing a certain city with only certain people allowed to be present.
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Really? Churches are only supposed to face a certain city???
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*Originally posted by mufakkar: *
Really? Churches are only supposed to face a certain city???
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God is spiritual, He is everywhere. There is no need for churches to face a certain city.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
God is spiritual, He is everywhere. There is no need for churches to face a certain city.
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what if He tells you to?
^ what if he never did but you 'interpreted' that He did?
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
God is spiritual, He is everywhere.
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is there really a need for churches and clergy then?
Facing the Kabba (in Mecca) is a symbolic reference! The teaching is further explained in Quran:
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2:115/116. To Allah belongs the East and the West; so whithersover you turn, there will be the face of Allah. Surely, Allah is Bountiful, All-Knowing.
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2:142/143. The fools among the people will say What has turned them away from their Qiblah which they followed ?' Say,To Allah belong the East and the West. HE guides whom HE pleases to the right path.'
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2:177/178. It is not righteousness that you turn your faces to the East or the West, but truly righteous is he who believes in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the Prophets, and spends his money out of love for HIM, on the kindred and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and those who ask for charity and for ransoming the captives; and observes prayer and pays the Zak›t; and those who fulfil their promise when they have made one, and the patient in poverty and afflictions and the steadfast in the time of war; it is these who have proved truthful and it is these who are truly God-Fearing.
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quote:
Originally posted by armughal:
PA yaar u will always remain confused as long as u try to extract silly meanings with that limitec knowledge of yours, and as long as u keep the hadith away…
and jab, u can now come to friday too, we promise u a good time praying…
P.S. no muslim prays facing towards medina…
posted by Pakistani devil abroad
armughal there’s no point arguing with you as you’d just disappear when your pov falls flat on your face.. nevertheless learn some qur’anic arabic.. living under the sheikhs dunda doesn’t suffice… and using hadiths actually takes you further away from the real meanings of the Message.. the blatant and persistent attempts at establishing a certain rigid meaning of Qur’anic verses by hadiths raises a red flag.
now go pray ‘Jumma’ .. what if the Arabs named their days something else.. ??
But they didnt, and u cant go bck in past can u
Can u ?
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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
is there really a need for churches and clergy then?
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Sure, that's why it's called "organized religion".
Usually the term 'organized religion' is coined to prove that the doctrine is manipulative & doesn't give human conscious the right of choice. But the fact of the matter is that the leaders of all the different religions required to a certain extent some organization, as without organization a society cannot sustain. And the most observing trait of any religion is the society it creates through it's doctrine.
For example, the prayers/mass/congregation is led by a person in nearly all religions, be it the Rabbi, priest, Imam, chief monk etc. The group has come to accept that either they will face no where, or will face north, or the Sun, or the fire or the little Budda, or the statue of Mary .. still there is organization at some level in their decision.
Point is, to argue that you shouldn't face anywhere while praying and if you do face in a particular direction then you are wrong, is no different than to argue that facing only towards the east has salvation.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Sure, that's why it's called "organized religion".
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SemiHole, Pardon me !!! but u seem confused . R u trying to diss islam or preach christianity.