Hey Musanna

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

As Musanna said, here is one hadith:

Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 1, Book 5, Number 251:
Narrated Abu Salama:

'Aisha’s brother and I went to ‘Aisha and he asked her about the bath of the Prophet. She brought a pot containing about a Sa’ of water and took a bath and poured it over her head and at what time there was a screen between her and us.

One thing is for sure. The screen was not oblique, it was transparent. Because Abu Salama could see her taking bath.

Ibn Hajr Asqalani in his commentary of this tradition in Fathul Bari fi Sharh Sahih al Bukhari Volume 1 page 365 comments upon this hadeeth, as follows:

“Qadi Ayad says: It is apparent that they could see her actions from her head and the top half of her body, because they were allowed to do as she was a milk-aunt to Abu Salamah and his brother from her sister Umm Kulthum. As for the lower part of her body, this was covered.”

**1. Even if she was mehram to them, was there no other way for Aisha to tell them how to take bath? Was it necessary to take off her shirt? Couldn’t she explain it with gestures?

  1. How does Qadi Ayad know that the lower half was covered?
    **

Mufti Desai explains it as follows:
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=8401

Once Aaisha’s (Radhiallaahu Anhu) brother enquired from her the manner Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) took a bath. She explained that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) took a bath with one Sa’ah (approximately 3.2 kg) of water.

It tell us that the main idea behind this hadith is the quantity of water which should be used. Now can’t Aisha tell the same thing to them instead of showing it through full actions?

Again, why was the bath necessary?

2

where does the hadith tells that the upper half of the body was uncovered???
have you never poured water over yourselves during summer even wearing clothes?? i have done it many times...some sahabas used to take shower wearing clothes, they would just pour water over themselves...so taking assumptions from this hadith is falsehood....bring evidence for such assumptions...

3

1010 your nick should be ID10T...anyway it was necessary so people like you can create fitna without proof. So folks like you can make up stories and spread falsehood.

4

I am sorry for offending you guys. I did not want to start a new thread like that. But Musanna was adamant that I should. When I refused he said that you are not starting it because you are afraid of it.

Here is what Musanna said in the thread "The Infinite Loop of the Rafida":

[quote]
Who told you that we can't defend them? I challenged your brother 1010 to open a new thread solely dedicated to this topic and he refused. This shows that he isn't really looking for an answer, rather he is simply trying to distract from the actual topic of this thread since no Rafidi is able to answer it. As I said this is a common habit, and shows weakness.
[/quote]

I was left with no other choice but to put it in another thread.

Now as promised, I am waiting for him here. You guys should not hurry in condemning me before Musanna's reply.

If you ask my own opinion about this hadith then I would say this hadith is untrue. Hazrat Aisha would never do something like that in front of any man, even if he is mehram.

5

Assalamu 'ala man itaba'a Al-Houda,

you're funny 1010, you refuted yourself already and still keep waiting for an answer.

  1. You yourself declared that you don't believe in the narration.
  2. You quoted the Sunni interpretation of the narration, which includes no offensive elements at all.

Yet you still insist that we have to believe YOUR interpretation that you are mocking. I'm sorry to disappoint you. We don't take interpretations of Ahadeeth from Sheikh 1010, but respect what real scholars of Hadeeth say.

[QUOTE]
1. Even if she was mehram to them, was there no other way for Aisha to tell them how to take bath? Was it necessary to take off her shirt? Couldn't she explain it with gestures?
[/QUOTE]

I wasn't present, so I can't tell you about the best method.

[QUOTE]
2. How does Qadi Ayad know that the lower half was covered?
[/QUOTE]

There is something called thinking. It's a gift by Allah (swt). And it's not thinkable that anything else happened that is Islamically offensive.

Yet it surprises me to see you so offended by this narration while your Rafidi scholars like Al-Khu'i declared it to be permissible for a man to PLAY with AURAH of another man, and a woman to PLAY with the aura of another woman. And he declared it to be permissible to look at the private part of a dead Kaffir. Yet when a man sees parts of the body of his sister which he is allowed to see, you get mad? Strange.

wa salamu 'ala man itaba'a Al-Houda

6

Say :razi2: after her name instead if you really respect her, the Hazrat is unnecessary.

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Al-Muthanna: *
you're funny 1010, you refuted yourself already and still keep waiting for an answer.
1. You yourself declared that you don't believe in the narration.

[/quote]

hehe. I gave my opinion about this hadith being wrong, and it should not matter to you. I refuted myself? Nay. I refute this hadith.

[quote]

  1. You quoted the Sunni interpretation of the narration, which includes no offensive elements at all. [/quote]

We will talk about it later in the post. :)

[quote]

Yet you still insist that we have to believe YOUR interpretation that you are mocking. I'm sorry to disappoint you. We don't take interpretations of Ahadeeth from Sheikh 1010, but respect what real scholars of Hadeeth say.
[/quote]

Where did the interpretation part come dear? It is a clear hadith. You don't need to have its interpretation from anyone. You just needs to know what happened. And Qadi Ayad told you exactly what happened (which he thinks true).

[quote]

There is something called thinking. It's a gift by Allah (swt). And it's not thinkable that anything else happened that is Islamically offensive.
[/quote]

Yet it happened when it was logically not required as well?

[quote]

Yet it surprises me to see you so offended by this narration while your Rafidi scholars like Al-Khu'i declared it to be permissible for a man to PLAY with AURAH of another man, and a woman to PLAY with the aura of another woman. And he declared it to be permissible to look at the private part of a dead Kaffir. Yet when a man sees parts of the body of his sister which he is allowed to see, you get mad? Strange.
[/quote]

hehe. Counter attack? That's again taking it out of context dear. You don't know for what reason Khu'i said that. Right now I would just say that you stay within the topic.
You don't people to runaway from topic, you wouldn't do it yourself. Right? ;)

[quote]

I wasn't present, so I can't tell you about the best method.
[/quote]

What amazes me is that Musanna can not see exactly what is offensive in this hadith?! How strange!!

Ok. Here are the offensive/unnecessary elements of this hadith which I could think of:

This hadith alleges that Aisha (RA) took bath in front of two grown-up men (even if mehram). I read this hadith and I see what is the central idea of this hadith. I find out that the narrator tells us about (1) the quantity of water and (2) the method of taking bath.

So I think. What if some of my mehram comes to me and asks the same question? For (1) I can just say take the right amount of water and show it to him. For (2) I can easily show them how to take a bath by gestures only without needing any reason to actually peform the bath with my clothes off.

Those two ideas are completely communicated WITHOUT anyone taking a bath and showing to other men. And here we have Ummul Momineen, who has more responsibility of modesty than common women. Now how come she do something this absurd and unnecessary thing?

Another thing. Suppose there really was such an important reason that she HAD to show them by actually taking a bath. But still, wasn't it a common sense that she still keep her shirt on? What is the problem in that? She was wearing the pants anyway, so why not the shirt as well?

I think anyone reading this must be feeling very awkward about such situation. Yet Musanna thinks that since he was his brother, so this hadith is not offensive at all? WOW!

Let me tell you Musanna that one is allowed to take off his clothes in front of mehrams ONLY WHEN IT BECOMES ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. And I see absolutely no reason, no justification, no need, why would Aisha (RA) perform bath in front of them.

These are the kinds of hadith which malign Prophet and his wives. No descent woman in the world, let alone Prophet's wife, would be so quick to take off her clothes in front of grown-up people, even if they are her mehrams; especially when it was not necessary at all.

Yet Musanna finds nothing offensive in this hadith!! He thinks Aisha (RA) actually did that?!

8

ok.

9

Assalamu 'ala man itaba'a Al-Houda,

the Hadeeth doesn't tell us that the two mahrams saw anything they weren't allowed to see. It doesn't even tell us that Aisha (ra) took off her clothes. So here comes in the interpretation, we don't believe that they saw more than what Islam permits and the matter is finished. Whether you like or not, whether you find it to be logical or not, is of absolutely no interest for us. Again that's how our scholars interpret the Hadeeth, and that's it. Get used to the fact that we don't take our interpretations from Sheikh 1010.

As for Al-Khu'i, it was a simple Q-A, there was no additional context. So if you find it so offensive for a mahram to see what he is allowed to see anyway, but at the same time find nothing wrong in Al-Khu'i's fatwa, then something is very wrong for you.

wa salamu 'ala man itaba'a Al-Houda

10

:k:

11

Please read the red underlined text on the page 432 (last two lines) and 433 of Sahih Muslim given below. Where it is written clearly that they saw her head and upperbody and it is allowed to see the upper body of a mahram. (grownup??, regardless of age??). It is also mentioned there that she had short hair so theres also no chance that she had covered up her upper body with her hair.

Sahih Muslim Ma’ Shrah Naw’wee By Alama Waheed U Zamaan

Sahih Muslim Ma’ Shrah Naw’wee By Alama Waheed U Zamaan Page 432

Sahih Muslim Ma’ Shrah Naw’wee By Alama Waheed U Zamaan Page 433

(the book is available all over the Pakistan in every islamic book store or library)

wrong, your scholer says they saw her head and upper body and if the mater is finished then tell me what your scholar Naw’wee means by “Mahram ko ooper ka badan dekhna darust hai” on page 433 (above)

Mahram woman, that could be your Mother, sister, wife and so on. :lahol:

SIGH!! What should I say? “Beghairat Ummah”?!

Let me quote here what brother 1010 said above "

Jazak’Allah Brother, please allow me to add that not only we “Shia” believe that the hadith is untrue but also believe that such ahadith in these so called Shahi Books are fabrication of the Banu Umayeed Hadith Factory to degrade the ** status of Rasulallah (saww), His Ahle Bait (as) and His wifes. **

Kaleem, Pehaps you should rethink your belief before calling someone names. Click the above links for proof and ponder who is creating the fitna actually? Same to you SalmanNY.

12

Dil tau chah raha hai ke kuch sakht baat kahoN.. per kiya karein, phir aap kahien gay ke Moderator unfair hai.

Khuda ka khauf karo.

For four days you guys have been spending so much energy in insulting a person who has been dead for 1400 years. And what are you trying to prove? That you are a good muslim and others are at fault?

Afsoos hai sabb ke haal pe.

I am closing this thread. I am going to close all threads that are started just for dishonoring muslim personalities. These are all against the rules of this forum. If you don't like it, go some place else.