Helping brothers fight...

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

What do you think of the taliban, palestine, chechnya, iraq and so on… Is it wrong to go and help them fight? Is it a just cause?

From studying and research, most of all these problems are because of us. We need to make our ibadaat stronger. All we do is blame others like Sharon and Bush. If we were true muslims, i doubt any of this would happen. We arent even united, we have muslims fighting with muslims, what type of nonsense is that?

What im trying to see is:

  1. Is taliban, palestine and the rest of them, are they really fighting for islam, or for thier own agenda?

I will write more about this later, im at work…brb

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Re: Helping brothers fight...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by attackistan: *
1. Is taliban, palestine and the rest of them, are they really fighting for islam, or for thier own agenda?

[/QUOTE]

Well, I'll focus on the Palestine issue. The various groups in Palestine have differing agendas. Islamic Jihad and particularly Hamas are religiously motivated groups, who fight because they believe that Israel's existence is is unacceptable in Islam, and that it is obligatory on the Ummah to posess the lands all the way from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean.

On the other hand, there are groups such as the Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigades, which is a militant splinter of the nationalist Fatah movement. Groups like this view their fight as being for Palestine.

Lastly, you get militant groups like the PFLP, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, which is a marxist-leninist organisation that is fighting Israel in order to establish a socialist worker's paradise cough*communist hell*cough in Palestine.

You have a similar issue on most other areas where Muslims are fighting - you have a mixture of those fighting for purely Islamic reasons, others fighting for nationalist reasons, and others fighting for banditry. This often happens intermingled in conflicts.

For example, the Taliban's army consisted not only of religiously motivated men, but also of men from powerful bandit warlords who the Taliban talked into joining them rather than spilling more blood in additional inter-Afghan conflict.

In Bosnia, the Muslims fighting against the Serbs consisted not only of those fighting for Islam, but also those fighting for the nationalist cause of creating a Bosnia.

In Chechnya, a similar blend exists.

Iraq is perhaps the most poignant example. Cooperating on the same side are those fighting for the Baathist cause, those fighting for Islam, and those fighting because they believe that the USA has insulted the honour of their families or tribes.

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Re: Re: Helping brothers fight...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *

Well, I'll focus on the Palestine issue. The various groups in Palestine have differing agendas. Islamic Jihad and particularly Hamas are religiously motivated groups, who fight because they believe that Israel's existence is is unacceptable in Islam, and that it is obligatory on the Ummah to posess the lands all the way from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean.

On the other hand, there are groups such as the Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigades, which is a militant splinter of the nationalist Fatah movement. Groups like this view their fight as being for Palestine.

Lastly, you get militant groups like the PFLP, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, which is a marxist-leninist organisation that is fighting Israel in order to establish a socialist worker's paradise cough*communist hell*cough in Palestine.

You have a similar issue on most other areas where Muslims are fighting - you have a mixture of those fighting for purely Islamic reasons, others fighting for nationalist reasons, and others fighting for banditry. This often happens intermingled in conflicts.

For example, the Taliban's army consisted not only of religiously motivated men, but also of men from powerful bandit warlords who the Taliban talked into joining them rather than spilling more blood in additional inter-Afghan conflict.

In Bosnia, the Muslims fighting against the Serbs consisted not only of those fighting for Islam, but also those fighting for the nationalist cause of creating a Bosnia.

In Chechnya, a similar blend exists.

Iraq is perhaps the most poignant example. Cooperating on the same side are those fighting for the Baathist cause, those fighting for Islam, and those fighting because they believe that the USA has insulted the honour of their families or tribes.
[/QUOTE]

Do you agree with me when I say that most of this is because of the muslims.

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You need to clarify further what you mean before I can answer that. :)

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come to USA and see how the majority of the muslims are lol, make sure you go to California too

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by attackistan: *
come to USA and see how the majority of the muslims are lol, make sure you go to California too
[/QUOTE]

Muslims are, sadly, hardly angels in Muslim lands too.... we're about the same everywhere.

7

Definetly we should help the muslim ummah in any way which we can, it is a fard.

But also we should realise why a lot of these problems like chechnya, palestine, bosnia happened in first place.

And the reason is a divided ummah with 55 corrupt rulers!

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ak47 and we imported these rulers from Mars?? they are Muslims too and from amongst us.. somehow looking at the state of your 'ummah' i can see they pretty much deserve these rulers.

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its becuase those losers accpeted those leaders

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
ak47 and we imported these rulers from Mars?? they are Muslims too and from amongst us.. somehow looking at the state of your 'ummah' i can see they pretty much deserve these rulers.
[/QUOTE]

Where do you get your facts from these rulers where planted by the coloniaists , and are nothing but dictators and oppressors of the worst kind!

These oppressors did we vote for them tell me!

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *

Where do you get your facts from these rulers where planted by the coloniaists , and are nothing but dictators and oppressors of the worst kind!

These oppressors did we vote for them tell me!
[/QUOTE]

In Iraq they may have a chance to vote in the not too distant future, but according to many here, they'd just as soon have Sadaam. So remember, a tyrant was not imposed on Iraq in 2003, but deposed.

What are Iraqi citizens doing with this opportunity in your opinion?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by storch: *

In Iraq they may have a chance to vote in the not too distant future, but according to many here, they'd just as soon have Sadaam. So remember, a tyrant was not imposed on Iraq in 2003, but deposed.

What are Iraqi citizens doing with this opportunity in your opinion?
[/QUOTE]

Actually

One dictator supported and financed yet again By America and Britain imposed then deposed.

Instead we have a group hand picked by the invaders of Washington to become the new iraqi regime, and even that not enough because America has the final say what can and cannot be iraqs choice!

Chalabi and Co are nothing but another set of puppets to replace the previous ones!

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[QUOTE]
What do you think of the taliban, palestine, chechnya, iraq and so on...... Is it wrong to go and help them fight? Is it a just cause?
[/QUOTE]

Dosent matter who, what and where muslims are fighting for islam with non muslims , we should support them

but

if they kill inocent people in the name of allah and islam by using suicide bombers or anyother means, than they are definately not fighting for islam.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kewlsolara: *

Dosent matter who, what and where muslims are fighting for islam with non muslims , we should support them

but

if they kill inocent people in the name of allah and islam by using suicide bombers or anyother means, than they are definately not fighting for islam.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you but what happens lets say, if one palenstine family is attacked every one dies except one and that one being goes to israel and targets the troops by blowing him self as he has no other choice but to do that. In doing that he also kills couple of innocent people... would you be with him or against ?..... IMO those people are in a continous war and in war majority of the innocent people get killed. So what do you say about that ?
-Salman

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SalmanNY: *

I agree with you but what happens lets say, if one palenstine family is attacked every one dies except one and that one being goes to israel and targets the troops by blowing him self as he has no other choice but to do that. In doing that he also kills couple of innocent people... would you be with him or against ?..... IMO those people are in a continous war and in war majority of the innocent people get killed. So what do you say about that ?
-Salman
[/QUOTE]
Why does he have no other choice but to do that?

What about the same scenario (family killed by Israelis) but he targets innocents and not troops. Are you with him?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Why does he have no other choice but to do that?

What about the same scenario (family killed by Israelis) but he targets innocents and not troops. Are you with him?
[/QUOTE]

Slaman and Seminole you both are right.

but he dose have other choices, he might be saved for some cause and that should not be killing others. He can become religious schoolor and tell true teachings of islam to people that killing inocents is not allowed in islam no matter what.

because if he go and kill other inocents he is doing it for personal reasons and not for any contribution to islam and he wont be compensated for that on the day of judgement.

Now as we remember how many suicied bombers in israel really target the soldiers, almost none. they are only targetting the inocent civilians. e.g. check what happend in turkey.

you simply cant justify killing inocents for other inocents who got killed.