Help! Need Info ....!!

This thread got started because I reqd. some info re: Wahabi point of views on Ghadeer-e-Khum, which I never recd. Maybe, they are in Taqiyya! Whatever!

Ya Ali Madad to all:

Naik, For Shias Isna Asharis & Ismailis - invoking the name of Imam Hazrat Ali(pbuh&hf) and his progeny is invoking Allah. Meaning of the word "invoke" is "to summon, beseech or call up"

DU'A-E-TAWASSUL
This is an invocation of Allah. Just as Imam Ali(pbuh&hf) has been addressed here, all of the Imams have been addressed in the same manner. The influence of the family of the Prophet is sought to approach Allah. They(the Imams) are addressed in this manner:

"O our master and guide! We seek your help to reach Allah. O most respected in the eyes of Allah Almighty: recommend us to Him."

The whole family of the Prophet has been addressed in a like manner.

The Ahle-e-Muhammad, from the time of the Prophet to this day, have been the means of approach in our prayers and invocations of Allah. We regard them only as very pious people and the nearest ones to Allah. Therefore, we consider them a means of our approach to Allah. And the best proof for this is our books of invocation prescribed by our infallible Imams.

Some more of our shia traditions:
1) 0 Master, your praises and extolations canned be enumerated. The reality of your praise cannot be perceived. Your qualities cannot be estimated. You are the light of the righteous, the guide of those who do good and the proof of Allah, the All Powerful.

2)The Imam or the divine representative is needed not merely for the dissemination of the rules of the Shariah and their compliance (Imammat). That is, his duty is not confined only to the guidance of the world but the whole creation depends upon him for their existence. If Imam ceases to exist, the entire system would collapse. It is related from Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (A.S.) that he stated, "If Imam (A.S.) is absent from the world even for a moment, the earth would suck in all its inhabitants like the stormy sea drowns the seafarers. " (Ghaibat-e-Nomani, p. 139, Chap. 8, Hadith No. 10)

3)It is upon the family of Muhammad that Alláh commands us to invoke blessings, saying:
"Lo! Alláh and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O you who believe! Bless him and salute him with a worthy salutation" (Holy Qur'án 33:56)

4)The Muslims asked the Holy Prophet, "How are we to salute you?" and he replied, "Say, 'O Alláh! Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad'"

5) The following statement of Hazrat Ali (A.S.) must appropriately explain the above concept while it contains in itself a world of meaning, "We (Able Bait) have been created for the Almighty and the creatures have been created for us. " (Nahjul Balagha, Letter No. 28)

6) Zirat-e-Jamea Kabeera is an authentic ziarat (salutations). This Ziarat is excellent for getting the recognition of Imamat.
"The Imam is the divine light upon the earth, the absolute proof of Allah upon His creatures, the life-vein of the universe, the spiritual connection between the Creator and the creatures, the mirror of perfection, the supreme example of all the positive human qualities, the collection of merits, the visible face of the Knowledge and Power of Allah, the ideal for a worshipper, pure from every blemish, knower of divine secrets, knower of the past, present and future of the world, treasure-chest of the divine sciences, inheritor of the Prophetic miracles, etc."

So, Naik, that is why the Ahle Bayt or Panjtan Pak is the cornerstone of our Shia Islam and, that is why I say: Ya Ali Madad!

[quote]
Originally posted by 2PaK:
like i said sunnis don't give a damn, this is our shia thing, so shut the hell up.
[/quote]

I don’t see anybody damning nobody here.
This attitude is prevalent in every sec of Islam, and esp in Pakistan.

Mini-me,

Damning the other sects is prevalent in Pakistan is 100% due to the wahabis and their petro dollar that is funding all extremists anti-secular, anti-shia groups in Pakistan.

My father used to tell me that before the 19 70 there was no such thing as Islamic extremism.

wowyi....thanx for confusing me more:)like i was not enuff confused already:)
all this stuff is new to me....u have quoted from ur books of invocation which ofcourse i haven't read ....and donno nothing about them....i have read Quran...can u quote something from Quran for me...???

and u haven't told me ur definition of "Shirk"....???

NaikLarki

IMO, if you can spell Shirk you're capable of researcing another belief on your own.

If I recall you did pretty well with the subject of Temporary Marriage!

Personally, I would recommend the wahabiya ways, they might be more up your's IQ level.

BTW, can you explain if the "firqa" that you follow, whatever it is, stands for Peace, Tolerance & Compassion!

Regards,

Logical and naik u guys should read the sibling rivalry thing it will calm u down...

Attn: Naiklarki

It is a HOISTORICAL fact that shia and sunni differ and, have gone their separate ways. It should also be obvious to all that shia and sunnis INTERPRET Quran and authentic hadiths differently.

Having said that, I have to agree with Logical; because you ARE, in extremely subtle ways, attempting to associate shia & ismaili beliefs with propaganda of certain anti-shia and anti-ismaili websites! Old habbits die hard, don't they!

Therefore, discussing theological sunni-shia issues with you is a waste of time. If you are sincerely interested in learning about the Ismaili Tariqa then pls be in touch with me and I shall refer you to an appropriate discussion group.

[email protected]

Kind Regards,

Logical

What religion/fiqah as you like to call it do you follow ? Please share the compassionate and peaceful teachings that you have been taught.Why do you hate Wahabi's so much ? If you are so much for peace and compassion, than do not attack Wahabi's and keep your propoganda reagrading the petro dollars to yourself.

If you want to have logical(pun intended) discussion regarding Islam we can do that as well. Just do not get down to name callin and cursive language adn I am game, otherwise I will just ignore your post.

Peace

Kaleem

Kaleem

I used to be sunni; these days I am learning about sufi Islam.

My point is if "your Allah and His message" is not about Compassion & Mercy then, why do we (humanity) need this 'Allah'?

Obviously, 'Your Allah' is all about mercy & compassion then, pls feel free to enlighten us?

sighz
Logical....bhai mere tum tou kha ma kha bhao khatay ho....nai batana na batao per bhao tou na khao...haiN??

Personally, I would recommend the wahabiya ways, they might be more up your's IQ level.

and what are wahabiya ways??? i really donno...qasam se....so explain

ps. what is sufi islam???

pss. yawn

Dear Naik,

I shall explain in full re:sufi & wahabiya. Give me some time.
No hard feelings, in the meantime!

Dearest Logical, take ur time...

ps. whar r hard feelings?:masoom face wala icon:

The actual Hades is
"Jis ka MAin Mola us ka Ali Mola"
Mola Means the Give , the one who gives and feeds. In urdu it is usually used for God. So My dear friends Rationally speaking I dnt Believe in HAzrat Mohammad (P.B.U.H) as our Mola (The meaning of mola from where I've consulted is the giver) nor i believe HAzrat Ali as Mola. HAzrat Mohammad (pbuh) is the second in the universe after the god but still he is nnot God and calling him Mola , to me it is SHirk.
Fakat Wallah Ilm

Lucifer,

According to your silliness everything is "SHIRK". Take your shirk and .....!

The question is: should I or any sensible person/muslim give a 'hoot' to what you "lovers of the Wahabis" think?

[This message has been edited by faceup (edited June 15, 2000).]

**bismihi Ta’ala
assalam o alaikum … **

the last and the final word on the incident of Ghadir Khumm is to be found at http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir

the non-shias will deny the matter altogether, for the following reasons

i also urge you to pursue,

The Incident of Ghadir Khumm
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia

with much regards

abu Kumayl

**bismihi Ta’ala
assalam o alaikum … **

would like to respond to this statement made with reference to the temporal Caliphate of the first Caliph of Islam, Abu Bakr, which stated

A response to this is composed from the work of the late Syed A. Razwy, in his work A Re-Statement of the History of Islam, in **chapter 40: Abu Bakr as Leader in Prayers **, to be found at http://www.al-islam.org/restatement , quoted here for your own benefit

hope that this lead to some critical thinking,

regards

abu Kumayl
http://www.al-islam.org/index

[This message has been edited by AliAbbas (edited June 15, 2000).]

Dear Faceup,
I never care for the casual thing in religion. I dnt say that he is kafir or not .. or stuff like that.. but the only thing that i seriously believe in is that GOD IS ONE and he is alone in his qaualities .. he is giver, the taker and the maker .. etc and nobody else have these specific qualities except GOd ... And I believe that Shirk is one of the greatest sins and i cant stand it. If saw it in this Hades .. so I said it .. but I said it there if There Mola means the givver than and only than my view is applicable.
But i think ya did not get me properly. Bhi think by ureself that no one shares the certain qualities of god , he is alone creator and maker and sustainer of the universe ... no other being even if HE is Hazrat Mohammad (Pbuh) is said to be sharing that qualiity would be a lie... I hope that you'll under stand...
Rest In PEace

P.S I may be right .. I may be wrong .. but I dont mean to cause any offence to anyone.....