Hearsay about Nusrat F.K.tongue &superstition in Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
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[quote]
Originally posted by tauba tauba:
**It really makes my blood boil when I see that fellow muslims are mud slinging on one of the greatest sons of islam.

Nusrat Fateh Ali Sahib (may Allah bless his soul) did a great service to our religion in such a short life span. He was a good muslim and those of you should be ashamed of yourselves, to be saying that he was drinking alcohal etc.

In my opinion, Allah has provided him a place in His jannat for all his services to Islam. **
[/quote]

i agree with Zman.....N.F.K was nothin but a good singer...........and what ure sayin bout his services to islam.......u don't preach islam by siging songs in movies or with girls dancing in front of u......he started off alright....but then he came into movies.....that was good for his personal life (lots of green paper).....but don't think it earned him janaat.......

[This message has been edited by khawateen (edited September 27, 2000).]

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When I talk about his services to Islam, what I mean is that most of the times them Americans and Europeans think that every muslim is a drug trafficar and a terrorist.

There are two ways to shut them up, one is the way that Osama bin Laden is taking and teaching them a lesson for being arrogent against the muslims and the other was the way of Nusrat Fateh Ali Sahib. We should be proud of him that thousands of Americans and Europeans qued up to listen to a muslman. He was a Proffessor in Chicago University, that says something about him, does'nt it?

I'm a muslim living in India and let me tell you that if he was a hindu from India, they would have made him a Bharat ratana or something for his services to hindus.

Here in India even the hindus listen to his music all the times. Them respecting one of our muslim brother means respect for the whole muslim Kaum. Islam is the only way and one day the whole world will follow Islam.

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[quote]
Originally posted by zman:
**tauba tauba :

NF Khan....one of the greatest sons of Islam ? are you on drugs or what......

What great service has he done for the religion in such a short life span other than singing ?

And how the hell do you know that he was a good muslim ?

Its illegal to post on this forum while on drugs...

Tell you what, he was a damn good singer and he got paid damn good for it too.**
[/quote]

I agree with Tauba Tauba ,When islam gets bad name b/c of terrorism,we complain that we are being discriminated for the work of few muslims whom we call for individual actions of muslims.In this world 'truth is not what is FACT but that which is believable'We have serious public relation problem,in fact our ONLY ,problem is p.r. & IMAGE. WE all know Islam is great & we are proud to be muslims.but why is it that whole world besides the 1 bn muslims think OTHERWISE.And any body who focusses on muslims in any other way than negative i consider him doing something for islam.Celebrity have influence that ppl. buy product based on there endorsement,& NFAK was celebrity ,whether u like him or not.
For OTHERS,,Can you plz, whom do u consider ,have done for islam in modern times ??
Osama bin laden,musharaf ,idi aamin,imran khan.Dawood Ibrahim,Mahatthir Mohommed,pres. of Malaysia or his deputy for being charged with sodomy,
We may hate movies & music in Islam but not to speak of majority of muslims ,4/5 of the world love it.If you care about p.r. then u can't totally shun away from the REAL world & preach all your life to the CONVERTED Test of Love

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Azad munna :
PR and image is what comes with the territory of being a celebrity. For the record I never said that I hated NFK. I just am simply appalled that you'll equate his celebrity status with Islam just by the mere fact that he was a muslim. What he did, i.e., singing, did not do an iota of good for the religion or the image of muslims around the world. Last time I checked singing with girls dancing around has never been endorced by Islam and is not the quality of a good muslim. If you are not convinced by my arguments then please give me instances with sources of the good he has done for the religion.......

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[quote]
Originally posted by zman:
Azad munna :
PR and image is what comes with the territory of being a celebrity. For the record I never said that I hated NFK. I just am simply appalled that you'll equate his celebrity status with Islam just by the mere fact that he was a muslim. What he did, i.e., singing, did not do an iota of good for the religion or the image of muslims around the world. Last time I checked singing with girls dancing around has never been endorced by Islam and is not the quality of a good muslim. If you are not convinced by my arguments then please give me instances with sources of the good he has done for the religion.......
[/quote]

If any body ELSE u think has done for islam, i'm not denying. I may even consider early moslems who spread islam far & wide as having done THE MOST service,but some ppl. despite having the desire & intentions can't do much significant contribution to islam,& i may give myself as example b/c no body can object to my self confession.Whereas ppl. whom god has blessed with some extra talent (& i'm not sore or jelous )even if they didn't mean it invariably end up helping.Its so easy for them .I' m not doubting that you or some one else may be more dedicated,more painstaking, &gone to great extent for islam,but what do you have to show,i don't know & will never know ,thats a fact.Raw talent is something more than money,over which so far even science has not any control,but it needs to be appreciated,cultured.endorsed.otherwise whatevr few rare talents you are blessed with ,a rare commodity to begin with will be even rarer or may be done with totally like a barren landscape of sand & mountain where nothing grows.

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**>> nusrat fateh ali sahib (may allah bless his soul) did a great service to our religion in such a short life span. **
bla bla bla… the only thing he has done for islam is that he distorted it. like for example he tattooed on all the muslim brains that, dama dam mast qalander ali da pehla number…. in fact, hazrat ali.ra was fourth in line.. but people still sing that tune. good work for ghalba-e-islam.

>> he was a good muslim and those of you should be ashamed of yourselves, to be saying that he was drinking alcohal etc.
how punctually he observe islamic etiquettes, may be this is important for you. for me, he will get accordingly what his soul has earned in this world. and thats beyond mine or yours calculations. ps: he uses to drink kosher liquor.

**>> allah has provided him a place in his jannat for all his services to islam. **
ok now i should buy you a lollipop honey. behn meri, jannat aur dosakh ka faisla aakhree din ho ga, the day on which we had eeman that it will be a great judgement day. before that all the dead ones are suspended in a state of barzakh. so the only thing we can do for our dead ones is that we can pray for them that may allah raise their status and forgive their sins. we have no authority to give directions for anyone that he went there and she went there.

and by the way the euro-americans cherish him not because he was a muslim. he was a good vocalist that’s it. the form of songs he chant is called qawalis, which is a distorted form of suffic tasawwuf, a technique which is practice by qawaals to reach god. such practice of qawalis closely parallels the development of the hindu religious song known as bhajan. we find parallels in musical form and social settings. the degree of cross influence is so great that some musician / saints such as kabir (1440-1518) are to this day revered by hindus and muslims alike. it is said that amir khusru an inventor of qawalis, mixed the various musical elements from turkey, greater persia and india together. even today, we find the curious mixture of persian moqquams with indian rags.

the koran instructs man to remember god. this remembrance, known by sufis and qawals as dhikr, can be either silent of vocal. the qawwali is viewed as an extension of the vocal form of this remembrance. the use of music as a spiritual force was further enhances by al-ghazalis (1085-1111). by the end of the 11th century there arose the tradition of the sama. the sama was often a spiritual concert, which included a vocalist, and instrumentalists. these samas took place under the direction of a spiritually respected man – the sheikh.

there is a very specific psychological process, in such vocals. one starts with the singing of the song. in this psychological state the song is received in a manner that is not unlike standard forms of musical expression. the words are sung, quite repeatedly with variations intended to bring out deeper means of the lyrics. after awhile there is a repetition to the extent that the words cease to have a meaning; it is the goal here to lead the listener and performer alike into a **state of trance* (hal). in the ideal situation the participant is moved to a state of spiritual enlightenment *(fana).

this what those gora loag admired. do you think they cherished islam?

do you consider this as true islam?

[This message has been edited by nanga .]

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Zaman

Next thing you will be saying is that what has Mohammed Ali, the greatest fighter ever has done for Islam. All he has ever done is boxing!

Every single one of us who is a muslim, are the ambassadors of Islam and when we do things which others like, we are not only raising the status of just one muslim but we are doing it for the whole Kaum. When Mohammed Ali says, "I'm the greatest." It is a muslim who is saying it and he makes us the whole Kaum proud to be what we are.

When non believers see how great these muslims like Ali and NFK are it encourges them to become believers and accept Islam. Is it any clearer?

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nanga

please go and cover yourself. only little babies are allowed to be nanga.

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you removed my brackets, now you have to say tauba tauba 33 times.

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[nanga]

ooops, sorry,

tauba tauba x33

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nanga ] : I couldnt agree with you more. Hopefully you bought some light of sanity into these people cause I sure failed.

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This is a wierd thread. Fortunately while going through the thread, all that I wanted to say was said by [nanga].

Regarding NFK (and also the similarity drawn with Muhammad Ali Clay). Well, as previously discussed in this thread these guys were good for P.R (a.k.a. Public Relations), and image. Agreed. So what? We have so many famous muslims actors and actresses. Do you think the fact that Shah Rukh Khan is born a muslim will make much of an impact on the Day of Qiyamat, just because he was a muslim and famous.

Nope. in Islam superiority is based on taqwa, and not on singing/boxing/acting skills or popularity.

Maybe NFK was a great singer (I was never an admirer of his, anyway), but that doesn't equate him with a status of a pious man. Unless his taqwa earns him that status for which Allah alone will decide on the Day of Qiyamat.

Re: opening the grave and its legal and religious ramifications: I don't think its recommended. Legally it may be allowed in some cases for forensic evidence or autopsy etc. From a religious point of view it should be avoided.

Re: the truth of the story narrated by sanaam. I had heard it. I think its rubbish. If Mrs NFK had such a dream she should have arranged a gathering of muslims and offered prayers and dua for the forgiveness of sins for her departed husband and not to seek a moulvis guidance to open up the grave and 'lets check it out!'. Its gross!

May Allah forgive our sins and guide us to the right path.

PS. I have seen some of the music videos of NFK. Earlier on he was ok, but after honobbing with Indian producers, he became something else. However, the form of qawwali, in the first place, was an innovation by suffis in India to counter Indian menthods preaching (as explained by [nanga]), so I am not particularly certain if spread of Islam by qawwali is in anyway an Islamic practice. I am quite impressed by Sabri brothers landmark qawwalis of 1980's, which were a class above the rest. But thats another matter.

Adios!

Life is too short to waste
Enjoy... and be Happy

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I must correct one fact..

when Muhammad Ali used said 'I am the greatest'
first he was known as Cassius Clay then he was a member of 'nation of islam'. An organisation which said its leader Elijah Muhammad was reincarnation of the prophet muhammad himself.. so by all accounts he was a non-muslim at that time.

So he did not do anything for image of the Muslims, apart from fill the muslims inferiority complex that muslims are good enough to be the best.

He converted to Orthodox Islam quite late in life.. but ask any American or Brit .. they will still link him to the Nation of Islam.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by nanga ]:
****>> nusrat fateh ali sahib (may allah bless his soul) did a great service to our religion in such a short life span. **
bla bla bla… the only thing he has done for islam is that he distorted it. like for example he tattooed on all the muslim brains that, dama dam mast qalander ali da pehla number…. in fact, hazrat ali.ra was fourth in line.. but people still sing that tune. good work for ghalba-e-islam.

>> he was a good muslim and those of you should be ashamed of yourselves, to be saying that he was drinking alcohal etc.
how punctually he observe islamic etiquettes, may be this is important for you. for me, he will get accordingly what his soul has earned in this world. and thats beyond mine or yours calculations. ps: he uses to drink kosher liquor.
--->>>>[Nanga]I'm not being too puritan,i mean if i can have christians jews & hindus as friends ,i don't see any reason why there should be which orginally was minor differenceses with Shias ,is now on the verge of becoming a new religion within Islam for people like you &hardliners on both sides.One thing i want to point out i don't live in Pakistan & have had to live as minoriy some time depending on them having to trust them not by choice but by the fact that i've been a minority one way or other all my life.For ppl. in islamic or majority muslim country can fight with shia /wahabi/sunni minsrem/ahle haadith./jammat/anglo-muslim/what not diff. kind u want to make AMONG yourself.
**>> allah has provided him a place in his jannat for all his services to islam. **
ok now i should buy you a lollipop honey. behn meri, jannat aur dosakh ka faisla aakhree din ho ga, the day on which we had eeman that it will be a great judgement day. before that all the dead ones are suspended in a state of barzakh. so the only thing we can do for our dead ones is that we can pray for them that may allah raise their status and forgive their sins. we have no authority to give directions for anyone that he went there and she went there.

and by the way the euro-americans cherish him not because he was a muslim. he was a good vocalist that’s it. the form of songs he chant is called qawalis, which is a distorted form of suffic tasawwuf, a technique which is practice by qawaals to reach god. such practice of qawalis closely parallels the development of the hindu religious song known as bhajan. we find parallels in musical form and social settings. the degree of cross influence is so great that some musician / saints such as kabir (1440-1518) are to this day revered by hindus and muslims alike. it is said that amir khusru an inventor of qawalis, mixed the various musical elements from turkey, greater persia and india together. even today, we find the curious mixture of persian moqquams with indian rags.

the koran instructs man to remember god. this remembrance, known by sufis and qawals as dhikr, can be either silent of vocal. the qawwali is viewed as an extension of the vocal form of this remembrance. the use of music as a spiritual force was further enhances by al-ghazalis (1085-1111). by the end of the 11th century there arose the tradition of the sama. the sama was often a spiritual concert, which included a vocalist, and instrumentalists. these samas took place under the direction of a spiritually respected man – the sheikh.

there is a very specific psychological process, in such vocals. one starts with the singing of the song. in this psychological state the song is received in a manner that is not unlike standard forms of musical expression. the words are sung, quite repeatedly with variations intended to bring out deeper means of the lyrics. after awhile there is a repetition to the extent that the words cease to have a meaning; it is the goal here to lead the listener and performer alike into a **state of trance* (hal). in the ideal situation the participant is moved to a state of spiritual enlightenment *(fana).

this what those gora loag admired. do you think they cherished islam?

do you consider this as true islam?

--->>>>[Nanga]Thank you very much on that information from Khusro to Kabir.Your Pakistan is 100% muslim & you can achieve 100% purity in your country thaks to that.But poor folks who live in India,Malaysia,U.K. U.S.A .& many african countries S.Africa Kenya,Nigeria cannot be so PURE.We cant wear your national dress shalwar nor shut our eyes & ears to music,movies,photo,silk,gold,not accidently touch opposite sex,wear a topi for namaz always ,face west for prayers as u do in pakisan.There are some questions
1/ is a [person muslim just being born one?

2/No religion can be practiced litteraly to the hilt ,NO NO nOt even Islam.It becomes futile more so b/c different firqa don't even agree on basic things,so u r damned by one firqa if u do somting & u r damned by another if u don't do that .SO WHY MAKE SO MUCH FUSs IF A WOMANS VOICE IS HARAM TO HEAR OR IF MUSIC IS HARAM IS THERE EVEN ONE MOST PIOUS MUSLIM FROM AL AZHAR TO MECCA WHO HAS NOT LET IN HIS EARS EVER SOME MUSIC???
PR is not important for allah .but allah has also asked us to fend for ourself when he sent us in this world where majority 5/6 th of the world are against him & his followers.So god has given some thing called commonsense not commonly found in common ppl.
IT IS THE SPIRIT PRiNCIPLES ,INTENTIONS that we cn achieve & hope for.When it comes to my enemy'friends i'm not gong to schoose a kafir,or christian or jews over Shia b/c they all hve differences with me as mainstream sunni.Hindus do shirk,yet we make friends with them.ANOTHER thing thing about NFA<Kabir<Khusro<Md.Ali ,is they are not our religous MODELS ,THey surely can compete with average muslim on Karachi street or be more muslim than may be me.Who are we to judge.??When u r living in a multicultural society there are differences that we comprise with evey day,Don't say ,you haven't IF U R LIVING OUTSIDE THE ISLAMIC counties & in some cases even in the Islamic countries.Even the religions that had no entry sign on there door like Hindus & jews have started COPYING islam in encourging talent to convert to judeaism.g. Sammy Davis Jr./Hindu-Asamat Chogtai (heroine of urdu literature .)Have been hailed by jews & hindus as theres b/c of talents as they were not originally either jew or hindu

[This message has been edited by nanga .]**/QUOTE

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arey bhai pk itna ghussa?
oaey baat sun, yeh jo islam islam kathrey mein hay tum log din bhar chillatey rehtay ho, kabhi koi acha kaam bhee kiya hay ya sirif baatein ****tey rehtay ho.
kabhi lalukhet mein ja kar kisee bewa sey poocha key usko agley din key khaney ke liyay khana hay ke naheen?
bateen karalo tum logon sey bari bari. itnee lambee lambee pekhney sey pehley, kabhi apney aap sey poocho key koee kaam bhee kiya key naheen?
laro maro aur lar lar key khatam ho jao. barey barey post online lekhtey raho, magar kabhee zindagee ko kareeb sey na dekhna.

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PK,is it so bad that you hate the first ‘H’ in hindu while live in Christian country & consider Jews who have been your enemies since days of mohommed,but prefer over hindus with which muslims shared much closer relation for greater part of 1200 yrs in the indian subcontinent ,until british instigated GHaddar of 1857 sowed the seed of hostility for the first time.Your hatrate is only 150 yrs old while harmony is more than 1000 yrs of existence together.Who knows in that period of time we become friends & enemies many times.

BTW,r u one of the MAHAJIROUN group in u.k which is having IMPOSSIBLE task of KHILAFAT govt.&Pan Islamic empire from indonesia to Morocco??I like the idea but isn’t it fantasy & closing your eyes like lemlin & jumping off the cliff blindly to becoming bunch of lemlin dead on the foothill.??I mean good ,only giving a friendly perspective not as hindu but asian,be logical,rational realistic,bro. for yourself,not for me,not for hindus ,not even for Islam but for yorself.I hate to see sufferings.