I once read “Beneath the veil” or something of that sort anyway, where the author highlights problems faced by Muslim Women, in many countries (I personally think it highlighted cultural problems rather than religious ones)…but anyway, in the book there is a very graphical account of the rape of a 60 year-old Lahorie lady, perpetrated by Pakistani Policemen.
That was the very first time I came to realise the horror of its actuality. It was so powerful that I myself felt the repulsion - I was physically sick, having read the account (and irrational or not, I don’t trust Pakistani Policemen - seems to me the Pakistani Judicial System epitomises the fact that laws are to protect the strong, the powerful and the guilty).
Previously, I knew the dictionary definition of rape, and agreed it was a terrible thing, but didn’t know exactly how terrible it can be.
Goodness knows there are evils “out there”, but surely none is close when it comes to never-ending torture. I just cannot comprehend how someone would still go about, living (or trying to live) life having suffered so much. The worse thing is, these women will be trampled upon by our society / culture as they’ve been “tainted”.
Why can’t we learn to pick up the downtrodden and the weak? Why can’t we learn to help rather than ridicule? Why can’t we put ourselves in other’s shoes?
Injustice is perpetrated against the weaker parts of society every where. The best most just society is one where minorities and teh weaker sections are treated well, but when money occupies the foremeost place in peoples minds human values are easily forgotten.
And yet there are many wonderful people in every society who strive tirelessly for others. If you look carefully you will probably find a group of people who are busy doing what they can in the time they have available for those who are less fortunate. Look around you and if you do not find a group that is already working and that appeals to you, maybe you can start another one. Let us know! And thanks for starting this thread.
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Originally posted by Shirin:
*Look around you and if you do not find a group that is already working and that appeals to you, maybe you can start another one. Let us know! *
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My sentiments exactly!
Although sometimes I feel so paranoid that I never want to open my eyes to what is around me, I know that its always best, at the very least, to try to do something - even if its just to go to sit and talk with them.
[quote]
Originally posted by Khairun Nisa:
**
Why can’t we learn to pick up the downtrodden and the weak? Why can’t we learn to help rather than ridicule? Why can’t we put ourselves in other’s shoes? **
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Come to think of it. These demands are just too much for the modern day human beings. And the solution to these things requires great courage which is non-existant. The plight of downtrodden people is such, that if even we had a shred of human nature left in us, it would make us have permanent insomnia. But no its not so. We just want to live happily ever after.
I am extremely tempted to put down some of the lyrics of a Sepultura song "Inhuman Nature":
Poisoned Hearts, Poisoned Minds
Join In Hate
We're Like Machines
Dead, Do Not Create
Sitting Docile
While All around is Rot
We Point Fingers
But Destruction Never Stops
Can You Stop It?
Do You Want To?
They Call It Human Nature
But Is This humane?
Hurting Each Other
Then Again And Again
How Can We Look At Ourselves
After What We've Done
Stop Looking Out For Yourself
Look Out For Everyone
Can You Stop It?
Do You Want To?
No!
Whatsoever I've feared has come to life
Whatsoever I've fought off became my life
Just when everyday seemed to greet me with a smile
Sunspots have faded
And now I'm doing time
Cause I fell on black days
So, if there isn't an iota of Human Nature left, then what has "Modern" Man become?
[quote]
Originally posted by Scratch:
**
Can You Stop It?
Do You Want To?
No!**
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Can't and Won't are two totally different things. One implies the inherent disability to "do", whilst the other can be attributed to a lack of care / interest in "doing".
My very very personal opinion (which you might find very pessimistic but hey I have dealt with some seriously bad people in my life and still doing) is that the modern man is longer a human. What is it (he) then? An entity of extreme egoism and materialism on an individual level and a corporate slave on a social level. So the mind works for the individual and the body serves the negative forces.
Good thing you noted the two most important lines of the lyrics which I was hoping you would. I dont think a more appropriate question could have been asked about the human nature. You are right, cant and wont are two different things and actually this is exactly what the song is signifying. We can do all good things that we say but we dont want these good acts to hinder our own progress in life, so we end up not doing them.
Like you I want to do a lot. I think this would depend on our priorities in life and what we want to do in the end: Follow the rules of the world or make our own in which we truly believe and act on them?
Whatsoever I've feared has come to life
Whatsoever I've fought off became my life
Just when everyday seemed to greet me with a smile
Sunspots have faded
And now I'm doing time
Cause I fell on black days
You must've read "Lifting the veil". A very effective propagation against islam. They've explicitly written against Hazoor SA and criticised verses of Quran. Don't blindly trust everything written there. Yes they are right upto some extent but they exeggarate a lot. Yes police IS corrupt in Pakistan but still it is or (i'd say "was") because of a few GOOD Jihadi organizations that much was in control. Still pakistani women are given more respect than west.
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Originally posted by sharjeel: Yes police IS corrupt in Pakistan but still it is or (i'd say "was") because of a few GOOD Jihadi organizations that much was in control..
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Says who? I thnk that there is no way of saying that it's better or worse in Pakistan than anywhere else... depends who you are, no? A poor person is treated badly anywhere. And I wouldn't trust to the humane instincts of any so-called jihadi organisation, any more than any other organisation with a political/religious agenda... only place I have heard where poor and deprived people got any kind of real assistance was from Edhi.
**
[quote]
Still pakistani women are given more respect than west.**
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Ask the women. Let the other women on this forum answer this. Do you really think that you are given more respect in pakistan than in the west? Under which circumstances? Is there a price? Only those who have first hand experience of both should reply. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Shirin (edited January 20, 2002).]
Respect is earned and if the women will keep on being submissive towards the Male Ego such cases will keep on emerging
Its not a religious problem its a Cultural Problem, the roots of which are embeded deep in the uneducated masses of Males who are taught from their childhood that a Woman is there to serve him
[quote]
Originally posted by Scratch:
*the modern man is longer a human. What is it (he) then? An entity of extreme egoism and materialism on an individual level and a corporate slave on a social level. So the mind works for the individual and the body serves the negative forces.
*
[/quote]
Agree to some extent. But does that automatically mean we lose faith in Humanity - the personification of all the Goodness that is Human Nature?
[quote]
Originally posted by Scratch: We **can do all good things that we say but we dont want these good acts to hinder our own progress in life, so we end up not doing them.
**
[/quote]
I suppose its down to how one defines "progress". Here is one person who does not believe progress is achieved through being a "corporate slave".
[quote]
Originally posted by Scratch:
*Like you I want to do a lot. I think this would depend on our priorities in life and what we want to do in the end: Follow the rules of the world or make our own in which we truly believe and act on them?
*
[/quote]
The answer is self - evident. May Humanity be the guide.
[quote]
Originally posted by sharjeel:
*You must've read "Lifting the veil". A very effective propagation against islam. They've explicitly written against Hazoor SA and criticised verses of Quran. *
[/quote]
Sharjeel, I do not think that is the book I read. There wasn't much in the form of explicit criticism, just descriptions/accounts of the lives of Women in Muslim Countries.
Like Shirin, I don't have much to say for the Jihadi Orgs, most of which promote sectarianism and compound problems. Pakistan needs many many social welfare organisations - like the Edhi Trust - for anything constructive to be achieved.
Let us not make Islam an issue here, its not bout Religion Its bout cultural jahiliat
ofcourse such cases are found all over the world even among christians and others but the reason why Islam is dragged into such cases when it comes to muslim countries is because when It is asked 'why this thing is happening or why are they doing what they are doing' the answer is always being supported by Islam
hence Islam is deliberatley dragged into such matters by Ppl who dunno how else to support their wrong doings
'why treating your wife that way'
cause islam says so then they will support their claim with hadeeths and such
KN,
Humanity as in Mankind or Humanity as in being humane ?
What human nature is, what it is supposed to be, can be well-documented and praised. But look at what the present day people (we)represent. And whats the use of not losing faith in the goodness in human nature? Nowadays, human beings are intrinsically bad. You can see that at every level of the society. Start from the near and dear ones and see across all the strata of the society. Pretentions of goodness...many, in actual none. Even your friends can be such ass-holes at times that you are left wondering whether they really are your friends. And of course, I am not ruling myself out. I shame myself a lot of times inspite of trying hard not to do so.
What is the popular notion of progress for an individual? Career growth, money, money and more money. Hey, everyone wants that, no? Everyone judges you by these parameters. Our parents want us to see do "well" in life. And this "well" is well-sowed in our subconscience from the very start of our lives. Its funny but I have been working towards being a corporate slave all my life. Take a look at my signatures. Ironic, isn't it? You should take a look at my friends, worrying about the fact that there are so few a jobs out in the market and their desperation at not being able to sell themselves. It amuses me, their attitude, really.
What do you mean, Humanity be the guide?
Whatsoever I've feared has come to life
Whatsoever I've fought off became my life
Just when everyday seemed to greet me with a smile
Sunspots have faded
And now I'm doing time
Cause I fell on black days
[This message has been edited by Scratch (edited January 21, 2002).]
I have to agree with Khala Anchal.
its a cultural problem and islam is dragged into it by the west.
And Shirin, the pakistani women who are respected (who arent much in comparison with the total population in pakiland) they are much more respected then f.e. women here in the west.
But animalism is found in every country, and to be honest i dont c much change in the position of women in this world.
(My sis says the world would have been a better world if women were in power.)
[This message has been edited by dutch_paki (edited January 21, 2002).]