Healthy ties with India vital for peace:China

China today said the “normal, healthy and good-neighbourly” relationship with India has “great significance” for peace and development of Asia and the world.

Announcing the ‘official goodwill’ visit of former Chinese premier Li Peng to India from January 9, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhang Qiyue said “the upcoming visit of the senior Chinese leader would be yet another high-level contact between the two neighbouring countries in recent times.” “A normal, healthy and stable good-neighbourly relationship and friendly cooperation between China and India is of great significance to peace and development of Asia and the world at large,” Ms Zhang told reporters.

Mr Li, the current Chairman of the National People’s Congress (NPC), who last visited India in 1991 in his capacity as Chinese premier, will be undertaking the ‘exclusive’ visit to India from January 9 to 16 at the invitation of Lok Sabha Speaker G M C Balayogi and Rajya Sabha Chairman and Vice-President Krishan Kant.

“The visit will further strengthen contacts between China and India and exchanges between China’s National People’s Congress (China’s parliament) and India’s parliament,” she said.

Mr Zhang also said that Mr Li’s visit will also enhance understanding and friendship between the two peoples and promote continued healthy and stable development of good-neighbourly relations and friendly cooperation between the two countries.


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Good on great China! Rather contrasts with the comments of Indian ministers like the ill-tempered George Fernandes who have gone on record to brand China as enemnt number one of India?

mallik pakistan may join too . it is good
for the whole region. george is too emotional

Pakidsta may join what? We already ready have a 51 year old special relationship with great China which you Indians look on with envy.

china can play a positive role now.
china will be more neutral chinese communist
party going to have party-party meeting with bjp. may both want to exchange ideas about
how to privatise govermnt owned industry

[This message has been edited by rvikz (edited December 29, 2000).]

Look economic ties first have to occur when you are on speaking terms.
And as far as i can see India and China are more rivals than friends.
The US will use India like a pawn to play against China.
I wonder what will india do which is really dependent on US FDI.


CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

rivkz dreamer I agree with CM - you guys are willing to be a stooge of the Americans. And the Chinese are wise to these plans.

India should not only follow China on economic policy, it should learn from China on how to negotiate at home, in the region, and abroad from a position of strength.

With Chinese power now unchallenged in the "Greater China" area, the likes of the Taiwanese and Tibetans are queueing up to talk to China on Chinese terms.

Can Indian negotiate with the Kashmiri's, Naga's , Assamese etc form a position of strength? NO.

Look at China and its neighbours. It has signed a historic treaty with Vietnam, is promoting Korean reconciliation, has exceptionally close ties with the likes of Cambodia, Laos and of course Pakistan. In fact China has warm relations with ALL its neighbours except India.

Witnessing the events in Nepal, and India's past entaglments in its neighbours affairs, can India claim that it has good relations with all of its neighbours, let alone warm relations with even one of its neighbours? NO.

Then take Asia (east) where China's influence is sweeping through at an unprecedented rate. Take China's success at the ASEAN+3 forum.

Can India claim such sweeping success in any part of Asia? NO.

So you guys have a long long way to catch up China in every field.

[This message has been edited by Malik73 (edited December 29, 2000).]

[quote]
Originally posted by CM:
**Look economic ties first have to occur when you are on speaking terms.
And as far as i can see India and China are more rivals than friends.
The US will use India like a pawn to play against China.
I wonder what will india do which is really dependent on US FDI.

**
[/quote]

we are not merceneries.

What sort of answer is that?

as a nation you have to work for yourself.
your own interest must come first. dependancy takes your independance away.

True true but maybe India should stop trying to make its smaller neighbours dependent on it as well?

small countries around are proud and independant as you can see from nepal.
they all existed for thousands years.
srilanka nepal are always have a separate identity for thousand of years

Yes we certainly know Nepal is proud of its independence. And India found out in the late 1980's how proud Sri Lanka is of its independence. We Pakistani's protect our sovereign independence from India with all means.

So India should accept these realities, drop its regional bully boy attitude, and be more like China and treat its all its neighbours like equals.

What really happens between India and China would not be affected by the opinions of the people on this forum. If the purpose of this discussion is to guess what might happen, then you should consider facts of history and the geopolitical realities of today. Here is my opinion (it’s only an opinion. No one really knows what would happen) on various factors that would shape the Indo-Chinese relationship.

Indo-Chiense competition – India would never emerge as a true competitor to china. It’s not because the Indians are less technically sophisticated or have an inferior political system but because the Indians lack the competitive spirit and killer instinct that is essential for a world power. Look at history of India. Over 700 years ago, few hundred horsemen led by tribal barbarians such as Muhammad Gajnavi and Temur Lund invaded and subdued over a million Hindus and ruled over them for over 400 years. More recently, less than 200 Fijians terrorized over 400,000 Indians in Fiji (Indians constitute over 44% of Fiji’s population). With nearly 1 billion Indians, they have not won an Olympic gold in 40 years. Compare this record to that of the Chinese and you would see a glaring contrast.

The Chinese edge – The advantage stems from several factors. It has adopted a capitalistic economy that got it out of the classic communistic lethargy. It, however, at the same time maintained an autocratic control over the population that has never experienced democracy. This control allows the leaders of the country to make bold decisions regarding assertion of power. For example, when Nehru advised Mao to back of from the Korean war because the Americans had the atomic weapons, Mao’s response was that he was willing to sacrifice a few million Chinese for his ultimate goal (Dr. Li Zhisui, The Private Life of Chairman Mao, Random House , 1994). Another manifestation of this militant attitude was the development of nuclear and missile arsenal. Because of this diligent pursuit of military superiority, combined with economic gains, the Chinese are in a position to become a world power. Indians have not been able to garner a similar agenda. If the Indians were able to mobilize the country behind a position that they were willing to trade one Indian life for a Pakistani life, the Indo-Pak war would be over in weeks with India reduced to 850 million and Pakistan reduced to zero. But, the Indians can not, for various reasons, adopt such a doctrine.

Sino-Pak relationship – For the sake of brevity, I will not discuss what started the relationship. Rather, I would discuss what factors are holding it together. China needs Pakistan as a buyer of its technology, as an agent to keep India in check, and a potential provider of warm-water port (such as Karachi) in the Arabian Sea. It is likely that the third world war would be over oil. Access to the Gulfs of Oman and Adan by the Chinese Navy through the Arabian Sea would then be of strategic importance to the Chinese. Remember, nations do not have friendly relations, only strategic interests.

Indian Challenge –The Indian face several challenges. The easiest one to overcome is the lack of strategic weapons (i.e., nuclear ICBMs with MIRVs). A more difficult challenge is to develop a unified national agenda because of various special interests, too many myopic ethnic and religious groups, and over 100 political parties. An even bigger challenge is to make the Indians less fatalistic and passive, traits that would keep the poverty level high regardless of India’s economic successes. If every ethnic group was as aggressive and hard-working as the Sikhs, India would have a chance.

What might happen – This is only my guess. I am not clairvoyant. Future will depend on how many centers of power the world can support. I believe that India and China would form a truce that would be independent of China’s relation with Pakistan. The Indo-Chinese relationship would be based on trade and strategic cooperation. India would try to balance the US and Chinese relationship unless it is forced to join one of the camps but I do not believe that India would be an independent superpower as callously mentioned in the media. Pakistan would fare even worst. If it continues to follow the Sher Pur doctrine and try to form a global caliphate through jihad, it would lose Chinese support and eventually be isolated and crushed along with Afghanistan.

Wow, that’s a long thread. I am either bored out of my mind or I have too much free time or both. I should get a life.

Thanks anyway for reading this thread. .

In fact, I think that Indian would be better off to carve out a state and give it to Pakistan if it could relocate all Indian Muslims to that state.

[This message has been edited by Mursalin (edited December 29, 2000).]

Schonpuuser most of what you write is quite good especially about the sad state of India as compared to China. Don’t be such a negativst though…I mean India will manage to reach present Chinese levels in approx 25 years. By which time China will have long overtaken the USA as the world’s leading superpower and be way way way ahead of you.

Reading from your rather negativist approach I can only deduce you want India to either accept the inevitability of China’s superirority, or suffer death by a thousand cuts.

I like rivkz are adhere to the positivist school

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

china has all the advantages like homogenous
populations no caste system no colonial past

china talks the talk and makes all right noises. does not walk the walk. it is extremely dangerous and expansionist power, with a long term vision and intelligent leadership. china will always remain a challenge for india to tackle, never a partner. both realize that.

Malik:
I have stated facts as I see them not as I wish they were vis-à-vis India and China. If I could get my wish, I would wish that all children have the same opportunity as the children in America do, no one ever has to go hungry in this world, honor killing and wife burning would stop, Jerry Falwell disappears in thin air, and George Bush Jr. gets assigned latrine duty in Somalia. But I live in a real world, where you don’t always get what you wish for.

If India wants to be a world power, it has to change. Just as if Pakistan wants respect, it has to improve itself. It can never get respect by solely attacking India. Actually, the Pakistani leaders have invented a bogeyman in India to cover for their own inadequacies to govern the country – a country that is a complete failure as a republic with no education, healthcare, infrastructure, or commerce provisions. So they direct the attention of uneducated Pakistanis by pointing outwards to an imaginary enemy who wants to concur them. As I have said before, conquest of another country, especially that is as poor and unmanageable as Pakistan, is undesirable even for India. At present, Pakistan should not compare itself to India but to Somalia, Sierra Leon, or other backward countries of Africa.

Colonization is a concept of the past when manpower was essential for growing economy. In advanced industrialized and information economy of today, raw manpower is not essential. In fact, uneducated poor populace is a liability because you have to care for them. They consume more than they produce. For example, even if the Mexicans wanted to become the 51st state of the US, the US would not take them. The same goes for Pakistan.

I find the admiration of the Chinese by many members of this board rather comical. It’s like you are telling the world that you are a shrimp but your big brother China can beat up India. Can you tell me how many people in Pakistan apply for visa to immigrate to China every day, as opposed to over 1000 who apply for visa at the American embassy every day?

Well, don’t take anything I say personally but think about what I say in larger context. As a dollar-rich Pakistani, you have some pull with your Islamabad. You can either use your influence to either advance your country into the twenty-first century or push it back into the eleventh century tribal system. The choice is yours. India will find its rightful place in the world in spite of Pakistan. There is a little you can do to prevent that but you can determine your own destiny.

Schoenpusser a lot of what you say about India is quite true but bringing Pakistan into it rather negates your argument. Apart from the reasons I have mentioned above as to why India can never hope to match Chian, there is a growing trend in India that is turning the country into the Serbia of South Asia (or Asia as a whole).

This is a rabid communal-based nationalism which is underming and overtaking all stae institutions slowly but surely. A nationalism which is affecting the cultural and social life of the country, and most importantly threatening the delicate social fabric of the country. And like Serbia this new HINDUvta minded India is alienating ALL its neighbours - Nepal being the most recent example.

Can you claim that China has done the same? NO. And thats why China has prospered at such astonishing rates. Stability at home, equality and respect towards its neighbours and asserting its sovereignty internationally.

mallik very fact chinese are coming to india and improve relation is good sign.
every accept except you about the changing
scnario. as always you want to hide behind
china's succes. what good it is if i go around saying my friend is rich and succesful
my friend is not going to help me financially