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Originally posted by Taj2001:
What constitutes as leaving Islam? Who will be the judge fo that? What if I become Shia, according to some I will then be leaveing Islam. According to others I will be comming to true Islam. Or what if I become a Sufi. Will I be leaving Islam? So, who is right in these circumstances?
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Major known sects of Islam believe in the same fundamentals of Islam i.e. they all believe in One Allah and Mohammed (pbuh) as last prophet, the all believe in 5 prayers, they all fast during the same time of the year, etc. The only difference are due to political reasons. When prophet (pbuh) died he deliberately didn't appoint his successor so that people can choose the best among themselves. Hence, if someone is more convinced the other sect then according to majority of scholars he is allowed to practice that.
[quote]
Originally posted by Taj2001:
What constitutes as leaving Islam? Who will be the judge fo that? What if I become Shia, according to some I will then be leaveing Islam. According to others I will be comming to true Islam. Or what if I become a Sufi. Will I be leaving Islam? So, who is right in these circumstances?
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as bro Khan_Sahib already put it, I wanted add my 2 cents. In matter of confusion, Allah SWT has asked us to leave the matter to HIM. I believe that the 5 sects are Muslims i.e Shia (I don't know how many sects in Shiism), and 4 of the Sunnis. Allah knows the best, he will be judge. All we have to do is 'try our best' to act on Quran and follow Sunnah of Prophet PBUH.
IF these laws are valid, like wajib-ul-qatl I beleive these laws can be acted upon ONLY in land where ISLAMIC LAW prevails, not any "Muslim land" like Pakistan for example.
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
Ahmadjee, you should know if you are muslim, we do things the way they are supposed to be done, not with our personal opinion fabricating our religion.
This is a very basic law that is exercised in many forms today, the most organized example of it today is the army or other military forces, what happens when a subordinate disobeys an order, he gets his ass kicked or court marshalled if the circumstances are related to a grave situation. But the assembly here is very small scale compared to the umberella which assembles masses of people from different races and region. If your mature enough to understand this fundamental concept of organization in your life, you'll also start understanding the do's and dont's of religion.
Religion is not a joke, which is why death is a commensurate punishment for a murtid.
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
LooksCanKill,
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not with our personal opinion fabricating our religion
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That's the essence of the whole thread.
While others believe killing the murtid, part of Islam, I believe it to be a fabrication. Which came into practice in the middle ages for political reasons. :)
Ibrahim Sahib,
The proof that you gave for 'executing' an individual from Quran was based on the verses which talked about hypocrites. And so was my conclusion that you are mixing the two up. Not to mention that in those verses Allah reserved the right to punish the hypocrites, not us humans.
Thank you for clearing up your point of view!
Please correct me if I am wrong, but from your writings you believe that anyone can have any faith that they may choose. Only when they cause 'disorder' they need to be persecuted. Right? Regardless of the fact that they call themselves Muslims/Jews/Hindus or Zoroastrians etc.
Now, we differ only on the definition of the term 'disorder'
You believe preaching fabrications with intent, is causing 'disorder' ... to which I object as you cannot prove the intent of anyone! No one knows what's in someone's heart other than Allah! Also, AnHazoor (saw) did not execute or persecute anyone for what he preached.
I consider 'disorder' being 'taking up arms' or 'mutiny' against the law of the land, regardless of the fact it being the Islamic Law. And this law is a common in all parts of the World. Tomorrow someone takes a gun to white house or even close by & see if he gets persecuted or executed at the spot! :)
Musalman Bhai,
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I agree that Quran does not come out and explicitly state that apostates should be executed.
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Thank you for clearing that part out!
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However, there are a number of Quranic verses that pertain to apostasy and they shed some light on the punishment for apostates.
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Now, 'sheding light' can differ ... as many other verses are understood differently by different scholors. Anyway ...
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There are several places Quran mention apostasy, but no mention of an earthly punishment is made.
It is from the Hadeeth that we can clearly draw our understanding and information on the punishment for the apostate.
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:) I am totally with you that we need to analyze the Hadiths in this regard. But please lets first give those a chance, who believe that killing of a murtid is prescribed in 'Quran'. Shall we?!