Following are some verses of Quran, which indicates that watever Prophet P.B.U.H said is in accordance with the will of Allah SWT and should be accepted and also warns about the punishment if one opposes Prophet P.B.U.H message
“Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is
nothing but revelation that is revealed.” (Quran 53:3-4).
“Whatever apostle tells you accept it, and from whatever he forbids
you, keep back.” (Quran 59:7).
But if anyone opposes the Messenger after the guidance has become clear to him, and follows other than the path of the believers, We will hand him over to whatever he has turned to, and We will roast him in Hell. What an evil destination! (Surat an-Nisa’, 115)
Following is an incident narrated in Sahih Bukhari:
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadiths: 9.468 and 7.573
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were
some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khatttab, the Prophet said: “Come near let me write for you a writing after which
you will never go astray.” 'Umar said: “The Prophet is seriously ill,and you have the Quran, so Allah’s Book is sufficient for us.” The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, “Come near so that Allah’s Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray,” while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, “Go away and leave me.” Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah’s Apostle from writing a statement for them.
The above tradition can also be found in Sahih Muslim, Chapter of “Kitabul-
Wasiyyah” in section “Babut-Tarkil-Wasiyyah”, 1980 Edition, Arabic version
(Saudi Arabia), v3, p1259, Tradition (#1637/22).
I don’t want to point fingers at Hazrat Umar but I am interested in how do you justify the following act of Hazrat Umar. Please no bashing. I just want to know the views.
this issue has been discussed to death. Let me make the whole discussion process a bit quicker and tell you what to expect next:
Phase I
You will be told that Umar, who consistently disobeyed the Prophet, at each occasion had the good intentions in the heart and that he did a lot for ‘Islam’ by conquring lots and lots of land
-You will say that you are not interested in land as even George Bush was good at that. But you want to know his accomplishments during the life of the Prophet. You will mention other things like him fleeing battles and his other various negative traits.
**
Phase II**
-You will now be told that he was a companion and a caliph and you are a nobody to even dare take his name in a negative manner and that he was “guarateed” heaven along with 9 others (ashra e mubashira) by the Prophet himself and therefore whatever that he might have done is a non issue
-You will say that not all the companions were good and that you reject the hadith of the Ashra e Mubbashira for if it was true then the people within it atleast wouldnt have fought each other. And even Umer himself ordered the execution of the same companions incase they did not agree with the decision of Ibn Awf in the Shura. Look at the irony of it- the Prophet supposedly “promised” them the heaven and Umer ordered to chop their heads off for the ‘crime’ of expressing their opinion. lol
**
Intermission**
-Then you will see a guy come here pasting whole range of fatwas stating that Rafidhas are kaafirs and they are a big fitna and how they are so deservant to be put to death. There will be another copy and paste about how great and righteous all the companions were and how God-fearing and God-concious they all were.
Phase III
-You will come back by quoting more from the Quran and Sunni book of hadiths and pages of the history listing their shortcomings, hunger for power, mass collection of wealth, ill treatment of the family of the Prophet and the “good” sahabas etc.
-They will remind you that Umer was one of those “good” companions for why the Prophet married the daughter of Umer? and that the Prophet always held him in high steem
-You will strike back by saying that the Prophet even married the daughter of Abu Sufyan despite his open enemity towards Islam. You will also bring to attention the fact that the Prophet never appointed Umer to any position of authority whatsoever, either civil or military.
-Upon this the moderators will remove your posts and remind you of the rule # 4 or whatever it is on this forum about not insulting the Sahabas.
-You will cry out loud the famous line that NOT ALL THE SAHABAS WERE RIGHTEOUS and inquire why are they above criticism and why their crimes and faults are brushed under the carpet?
-Now you will be told that you should focus on your own shortcomings and not others.
Final phase
-And the arguments will continue to move back and forth until either the moderator will finally close the thread or majority of the people will finally get bored and decide to move on to the next topic which most probably will be a lot less challenging to their beliefs.
For OP and Pagluu or anyone who engages in these kind of long fruitless and silly arguments!
**
If religion is the discussion then where in the religion says **argue over historical figures and their acts hundreds of years ago to get 'salvation'?
Does this kind of act make anyone more religious or muttaqi?
Brother if you can’t see a reason in these debates.. or if you want to come up with excuses to ignore the facts that are recorded in your own sahih books Please do not refer to these arguments as silly…
I can give you examples why these arguments can be fruitful…
There is a population of muslim ummah that refer to these personalities, their deeds to get the sunnah of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. As muslims we need to make sure our sources are rightful and trust worthy… becaue the source of sunnah splits us among a number of sects and it is our Prophet P.B.U.H. who mentioned after him islam will be divided in a number of sects and of it only one would go to heaven… Now let me ask you something…
Don’t we all believe in Quran
Don’t we all pray five times a day
Don’t we all do hajj and pay Zakat…
What makes all the sects different…? Alot of people after the death of Prophet P.B.U.H. look up to the khilafat as a source of guidance and even called some of the khaleefa as Ameer ul Momineen… but lets see if this is the right choice… besides the incident that I quoted you above… Sahibh Bukhari also narrates Hazrat Umar introducing Bidats and praising it… Here is an example:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 32, Number 227:
'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abd ul-Qariy said, “I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, ‘In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)’. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka’b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, ‘What an excellent Bid’a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.’ He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night.”
Here is another example, I found when I was reading a debate on number of rakats that should be prayed… The following narration was used as an argument to pray 20 rakats because that is how Hazrat Umar ordered it:
Theevidence which proves that Umar (radiallahu anhu) ordered the practise of 20 rak’ahshas been recorded by Shaykh Ali al-Muttaqi al-Hindi[10] in the largest collection ofHadith available today: Kanz al-Ummal fi Sunan al-aqwal wal Af’al[11], as follows from Ubayy ibn Ka’b(radiallahu anhu):
“Umar (radiallahu anhu) ordered him (Ubayy) to leadthe people in prayer at night in Ramadan, because the people fast during theday and can not recite (the Qur’an) well, therefore it is better that youshould recite (the Qur’an) during the night. I (Ubayy) asked: “O commanderof the believers, this thing was not done before”; He said: “;I know,but it is a good practise”;, and so (Ubayy) led (the Companion’s) for 20 rak’ahs”;
Similarly, if you look at Hazrat Abu Bakar, following is a narration in Sahih Bukhari about him:
Al-Bukhari narrates similar traditions on the authority of Hudhayfah (no 1435), Abd Allah (no.1435), Sahl ibn Sad (no. 1442), Abu Said al*Khudri (no 1442), Ibn Abbas (no.1442), Abu Hurayrah (no 1443), and Asma’ bint Abi Bakr (no. 1449) in “Kitab al-ruqaq”, as well as elsewhere in “Kitab al tafsir” and “Kitab bad’ al-khalq”. The same tradition with various wordings is also recorded by Muslim, Abu Dawud, al-Tirmidhi, alNasa’i, Ibn Majah, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in their books (as well as Imam Malik in alMuwatta’, "Kitab altaharah", hadith no.28) from several Companions. Imam Malik reports the following tradition in his alMuwatta’, “Kitab al*jihad”, hadith no.32:
"The Prophet (S) said concerning the martyrs of Uhud, “I shall bear witness for them (i.e. their faith).” Thereupon Abu Bakr said, “O Messenger of Allah, aren’t we their brethren, who embraced Islam like them and did jihad like them?” The Prophet (S) replied, “Yes, but I don’t know what you will do after me …”
If you look more into Sahih Bukhari, you’ll find folloiwng two narrations that shows Hazrat Abu Bakar… made Prophet P.B.U.H angry…
“Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.”
Sunni references:
Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111
Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5
al-Bukhari narrated on the authority of Aisha that:
… Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself.
Sunni references:
Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of “The battle of Khaibar”, Arabic-English,
v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition 325
I wouldn’t use this hadith to point fingers at any particular companions but Prophet P.B.U.H did warn about the actions of some companions after him in the following hadith:
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.578
Narrated 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, “I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount.” 'Abdullah
added: The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount, and
some of you will be brought in front of me till I will see them and
then they will be taken away from me and I will say, ‘O Lord, my
companions!’ It will be said, ‘You do not know what they did after you
had left.’
On the other hand Prophet P.B.U.H. gave the following hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim
“Zayd said: ‘O brother, by God, I have become aged and old and I have forgotten some of what I used to remember from the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions. So accept what I narrate to you and as to what I don’t, trouble me not regarding it.’ Then he said: ‘One day the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions, addressed us near a pond called Khumm between Makkah and Madinah. He praised God and extolled Him and preached and reminded (us). Then he said, “Lo, O people, I am only a human being and I am about to respond to the messenger of my Lord . I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you. The first of the two is the Book of Allah. In it is guidance and light. So get hold of the Book of Allah and adhere to it." Then he urged and motivated (us) regarding the Book of Allah . Then he said, "And my Ahl alBayt (family). I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl al*Bayt”’” …
(*Sahih Muslim, *part 7, Kitab fada’il alSahabah *[Maktabat wa Matbaat Muhammad Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123.)
If you look in the history, Ahleybait has always been there to defend the islam. They never ran from the battle fields, in the era where people looked at khaleefa’s as Ameer ul Momineen. Imam Hussain stood up when khilafat came in the hands of people like Yazid.. and sacrificed his family in the way of Allah SWT to defend islam. They have served as the best source of knowledge. The teaching of all the Imams of Ahleybait never contradicted each other… They were there since the time of Prophet, infact some of the reknowned sunni Imam’s such as Imam Hanafia .. who came years after the death of Prophet P.B.U.H happens to be students of Imam Jaffar Sadiq A.S.
As far as leadership of Hazrat Ali AS is concerned the Prophet P.B.U.H. declared him Mawla during his life time.
“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).”
Please refer to the following web site for references
copy paste from shiaa sites who openly hate Hadhrat Umar (radi Allah anhu) isnt really worth an answer....
why point fingers at only Umar (ra).... was Umar (ra)'s argument enough for other people present at that time (some of whom you even take to divinity) that they all disobeyed the Prophet (saw)????
It is true that the ummah will be split, but it is in our control to try to reduce the difference not by concentrating on the difference but by concentrating on the similarities. Umar (RA) is not to be talked about in a bad way on this forum ... this is an early warning for this thread.
Just quoting a paragraph from the comprehensive article.
Mr. Texan Dude
Only if you had bothered to search this board - We have gone over this too!
What short memory you have!
“Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.”
The above was uttered by the Prophet (saw) towards Hz. Ali (ra)!!!
Please go and read your own books written by your own eminent scholars and read they say:
“Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry.” was stated by the Prophet (saw) towards Hz. Ali bin Abi Talib!!!
Read the following:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatima, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (Khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl?”
She said: “Is it true what you say?
He said three times: “What I say is true.”
Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah.
He said: And Fatima’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it until night time…she moved to her father’s residence. Ali came to his residence and did not see Fatima and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it.
When the Prophet saw how sad and anguished Fatima was, he poured water over himself and wore his clothes and entered the Masjid. He kept praying, making Rukoo and Sujood, and after every time he completed two Raka he made Du’a that Allah remove what Fatima had of sadness and anguish because he left her turning over and breathing heavily.
When the Prophet saw that she could not sleep and could not rest he said: “O daughter, rise!” So she rose and the Prophet carried Al-Hassan and she carried Al-Hussain and took hold of Umm Kulthoom’s hand until they reached Ali (AS) while he was sleeping.
The Prophet put his foot on Ali, pinched him, and said: “Rise Abu Turab! You have disturbed many a resting person. Call for me Abu Bakr from his house and Umar from his Majlis and Talha.” So Ali went and got them from their houses and they gathered around the Messenger of Allah.
The Messenger of Allah then said: “O Ali! Do you not know that Fatima is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death.”
(source: Ibn Babveh Al Qummi’s “Elal Al-Sharae’”, pp.185-186, Al-Najaf Print; also narrated in Majlisi “Bihar” 43/201-202)
read the following, as narrated by Al-Majlisi’s Haqq-ul-Yaqeen as well as in Al-Tusi’s Amali:
“When Fatima asked for Fadak from Abu Bakr and he refused to give it to her, she returned full of anger that could not be described and she was sick; and she was angry with Ali because he refused to help her.” (Al-Majlisi’s Haqq-ul-Yaqeen, pp.203-204; also recorded in Al-Tusi’s Amali, p.295)
Ibn Sadique, the website that you are using is clearly lying as the book they are trying to portray as a “Shia book” and a “Shia riwayat” is a commentary on Nahjul Balagha by a Sunni/Mutazili scholar Ibn Hadid!
Something interesting that Ibn Hadid did write was:
"He wrote regarding hadith forgeries sponsored by caliph Mu`awiya to oppose Ali. According to him:
Then Muawiya wrote to his governors saying: "Hadith about Uthman has increased and spread in every city, town and region. When this letter from me reaches you, summon the people to relate the merits of the Companions and the first caliphs. And do not let any Muslim relate anything about Ali without bringing something contradicting this about the Companions. This I like better and it pleases me more, it invalidates Abu Turab's claims and those of his Shi'ite in a more definitive way and it is for them more difficult to bear than the virtues and the merits of Uthman." Muawiya’s letters were read out to the people. And many forged reports concerning the merits of the Companions, in which there was no [grain of] truth, were related. The people went out of their way in relating reports in this vein until they spoke thereof in glowing terms from the pulpits. The teachers in the schools were instructed to teach their young pupils a vast quantity of these until they related them just as they studied the Qur’an and they taught these to their daughters, wives and servants. God knows how long they persisted in this."
SOURCE: Ibn Abi al-Hadid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
why point fingers at only Umar (ra).... was Umar (ra)'s argument enough for other people present at that time (some of whom you even take to divinity) that they all disobeyed the Prophet (saw)????
Umar lead the pack that refused the pen and paper. Prophet (saww), as stated in the traditions, became annoyed and told everybody to leave. How did you draw out the idea that all of them there disobeyed the Prophet?
Ibn Sadique, the website that you are using is clearly lying as the book they are trying to portray as a “Shia book” and a “Shia riwayat” is a commentary on Nahjul Balagha by a Sunni/Mutazili scholar Ibn Hadid! /QUOTE]
So much for your knowledge!
Nahjul Balagha is a Shia book ‘compiled by Sharif Radi
Ibn Al Hadid just wrote a commentary on it. He is Mutazili and not a Sunni Scholar – refer to your link and see that he is referred as a Mutazili and not a Sunni!!!
Just as you have no value for the links I have provided your links to 12’er Shia links have no value to the non 12ers!!!
“Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry.”
The above statement was uttered by the Prophet (saw) in his life time and certainly was not directed at Hz. Abu Bakr (ra).
Read the references I have given from your books and see who the Prophet (saw) was addressing to and you will get the answer.
