Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
If ibn Sirin was born 2yrs before the end of 3rd caliphs rule as u have stated then Imam Hasan would be close to or past 40's in age. Another correction; Fatima Zahra passed away 6 months after her father
Yes, I acknowledge the correction, but not for Ibn Sirin ... he was born at that time - for I have his bio in his book of dreams ... Anyway all of this is irrelevant I want to see names "Abu Bakr" at the time or before THE Abu Bakr (RA) ...
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
Also, do Shi'a keep names, Abu Bakr, Uthman and Ali in honour of the children of al-Hasan??? I'm sure they do ... don't they? I have an acquaintance whose first name is AbuBakr, despite this being a kunya - it appears that people started to keep this name as a first name anyway ...
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
It is speculation on your part to think that way. There were dozens of people with the name Umar in Arabia. For example Umar ibn Abu Salama was a strong companion of Ali. Imam Ali is recorded in the books to have named one son of his as Uthman in memory of Uthman ibn Nath'un who was a companion of the Rasool Allah and later on of Ali's. As for Abu Bakr then that is kuniyat and not a real name meaning the father of Bakr.
No, sorry it is other way around – It’s sheer speculation of some later day Shia author trying to wiggle out and ‘find’ some excuse for Hz. Ali (ra) naming his son ‘Abu Bakr’.
Any authoritative reference showing any narration attributed to Hz. Ali (ra) stating what you claimed?
But him naming his sons ‘Abu Bakr’ and ‘Umar’ shows deliberate intent on preference for these names.
If the name was just Abu Bakr then one would say that it's just a name but getting the names Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman in one go is no coincidence but a deliberate intent on preference for these names.
Now your scholars have to dig another obscure person around Hz. Ali (ra) named ‘Umar’ or 'Uthman' to be awarded the honour of having child named after him.
Yeah, this is called speculation.
If the names Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were good enough for your infallible Imams to name their sons with then why is so abhorrent for Shias.
This shows that Shias don’t follow the deeds of their ‘infallible Imams’ but whims of later day ayatullahs.
If asking for reference can offend people here then i dunt think its the best idea to discuss his personality on this forum anymore. PS: None of ur posts relate to what i was asking, I wanted a source for a hadith that was mentioned in opening thread.... It was provided sources but technically they rnt same, as wording was different in sources provided.
Brother Aqeel, no offence was taken – but just that your query smacked of ‘I-don’t-believe-it-show-it-to-me’ sort of attitude.
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
I do not know any Shia from any part of world who would keep their sons name Abu Bakr, Umar, or Uthman today because today it is only the personalities of the khulafa that comes to mind when these names are taken. This was not the case back in the times we are talking about. The list of the martyrs of Karbala has names like Yazeed included in it. At the same time Yazid’s army commander who beseiged Madina and attacked Mecca was Husayn ibn Numayr. Many important Shia in those days are Muawiya, Umar, Yazeed because those were common names then and taking one of those names did not necessarily have the affiliation witht the names of khulafa like it is today. Ali ibne Hussain named his own son Abdul Rehman despite the Kharijitte killer of Imam Ali being Abdul Rehman ibne Muljim.
Even in todays times it is not possible to judge a name. For example if a father names his child Ahmad then has he done so because that is the name of the Prophet he believes in? or has he named him after Ahmad the musician? or Ahmad the cricketer? or it could be the case of that person liking the sound of the name Ahmad. Or perhaps the person liked the literal meanings of the word Ahmad. And of course there is a possibility that he has a friend or he has met somebody nice with the name Ahmad. So there are many possibilities. In real life I know a hindu guy who named his son Tariq because he liked the sound of it. I had a Muslim friend in Pakistan with the name Anil because his father was impressed from Anil Kapoor the Bollywood hero. There are political reasons at play too such as in Saddam’s Iraq where parents were paid to name their children Saddam and on the birthday of the president all the little Saddams would get prizes from the government! 
Abu Bakr being the first name is one thing, I sat in a taxi in Indonesia and the driver name badge read Osman bin Affan (literal meaning, Osman son of Affan). I asked if this was his name. He said yes he was named this because this was a famous Islamic personality. Classic case of being lost in translation.
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
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I made this thread for the information of ppl who respect Hazrat AbuBakr RA,if someone does not agree with the info I mentined then they should not derail this thread,we are not in any status to declare negative things abt HazratAbu Bakr R.A....It hurtsthe feeling of the ppl who love him...I think this thread should be closed for further baseless behass!
Where is the mod?plz close the thread,n those who don like wht's written in it can keep their feelings to them...
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
I’m gonna squeeze one last post in here … Pathan Bhai … this may well be true for the vast majority of people today … but I don’t think it is true for Sayyiduna Ali (RA) to have named his children on those reasons other than “he (RA) admired the people (RA) who are famous with those names”
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
[quote=“Ibn_Sadique, post:34, topic:260236”]
If the names Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were good enough for your infallible Imams to name their sons with then why is so abhorrent for Shias.
This shows that Shias don’t follow the deeds of their ‘infallible Imams’ but whims of later day ayatullahs. /QUOTE]
That taxi driver is not an Arab – so his dad’s intent was to name his in honour of a particular person not any Uthman.
There is a warlord named Hazrat Ali in Afghanistan. (he’s not a shia) 
Check the link.
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
'Hazrat' as a first name is linguistically fine. Its Urdu meaning is 'pyaara' or 'respected'. Despite sounding odd, since in our culture this name is reserved for religious personalities, one could have the name Hazrat Aslam, or Hazrat Akram.
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
^ Speculations Conjectures Assumptions Guessworks
Greatness of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) very evident but not to those blinded by sectarian hate.
Ibn Abbas (ra) and Abu Sa’eed al Khudri (ra) both narrated: The Prophet PBUH said: I have two viziers from the people of the sky and two viziers from the people of the earth, those from the sky are Jibreel and Michaeel, those of the earth are Abu Bakr and Umar.**(al-Suyuti said Sahih in al Jami’i al Sagheer 2438)
**
Those who are blinded by sectarian hatred will never see or feel the Truth even if it smacks them on the face.
The following is so appropriate.
They know not, nor do they discern, for He has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, and their hearts, so that they cannot understand. Isaiah 44:18
May Allah (swt) reward you immensely - Let it be, you shouldn’t worry - the truth is very clear.
If the people spit at the sun does it make a difference? Nay, the spit gets in their own eyes.
You must have heard the old arabic saying: “The Caravan moves on …”
Must see for all
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
@ Ibn Sadique. Seriously, are you even reading what I am saying before replying in your sectarian French?
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
bien sûr, monsieur, Honestly brother I did read your posts and replied in English – and of course you are bound to be confused if you are trying to read it in French.
Forget everything follow the message of whom consider to the INFALLIBLES – BUT you won’t :-
“Suwaid ibn Ghafla (رحيمه الله) reported that once he passed by a group of shi’a who were talking about Abu Bakr and ‘Umar in derogatory terms. Then he visited ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib and told him ‘O Ameeral Mu’mineen! I passed by a group of your companions while they were referring to Abu Bakr and ‘Umar in derogatory terms. If it were not that they thought that you secretly felt as they openly said, they would not have dared to say it.’
Ali replied, ‘I seek refuge in Allah! I seek refuge in Allah from secretly feeling anything towards the two of them other than what the Prophet, (صلي الله عليه و سلم) entrusted to me. May Allah curse anyone who holds inside himself anything but goodness and gratitude towards the both of them. (They were like) two brothers to Allah’s Messenger (صلي الله عليه و سلم), his two companions, his two assistants, may Allah’s Mercy be on both of them’.
Then ‘Ali got up with tears in his eyes, holding on to my hand until he entered the masjid. Next he ascended the mimbar and sat at its top holding onto his beard and looking at it until the people gathered. After having made a brief but eloquent speech, he added, ‘What is wrong with those who make allegations about the two masters of Quraysh, the two fathers of the Muslims, allegations which I would never say or even want to hear others say; and for which I may be punished?
By He who split the seed and created the soul, only a pious believer loves them, and only a wretched sinner hates them. Those two who accompanied Allah’s Messenger (صلي الله عليه و سلم), commanding all that is good and prohibiting all that is evil; who became angry with the wrongdoers and punished them based on truth and honestly alone. In their rulings, they did not overstep the opinions of Allah’s Messenger (صلي الله عليه و سلم). In fact, their opinions always coincided with those of Allaah’s Messenger (صلي الله عليه و سلم) and the believers were pleased with both of them throughout their respective caliphates.
The Messenger of Allah (صلي الله عليه و سلم) appointed Abu Bakr to lead the believers in their prayers for the last nine days of the Prophet’s life and he died without recalling him. The believers, subsequently, made him responsible for their affairs, and gave him their Zakaah. They willingly pledged allegiance to him and I am the first person from Banu ‘Abd al Muttalib to confirm his leadership. He disliked leadership and wished that one of us would take his place.
By Allah, he was the best of those who remained after the Prophet (صلي الله عليه و سلم); the eldest, the kindest, and truly the most compassionate and pious. He was like Angel Mikaa’il in his benevolence and Prophet Ibraheem in his willingness to forgive and his dignified bearing. He took the path of the Prophet (صلي الله عليه و سلم) and passed away on that path (May Allah have mercy on him).
After Abu Bakr, ‘Umar took command, and I was among those pleased with his appointment. He ruled according to the policy of Allah’s Messenger (صلي الله عليه و سلم) and his companion Abu Bakr, following their footsteps the way a young camel follows its mother.
I swear by Allah, he was kind and gentle with the weak, a champion of the cause of the oppressed and without any blame concerning Allah’s Religion. Allaah manifested examples of truth through him and made the truth a part of him to such a degree that we used to think that an angel was speaking with his tongue.
Allah made his conversion a strengthening factor for Islam, and placed in the hearts of the hypocrites a fear of him and in the hearts of the believers love for him. Allah’s Messenger (صلي الله عليه و سلم) compared him to angel Jibreel in his harshness towards the enemies of Islam.
So who among you can be compared to the two of them?! May Allah’s Mercy be on them, and may Allah provide us with the ability to continue in their paths. Let whoever loves me, love them, for whoever does not love them has angered me, and I will have nothing to do with him. If I hear anymore derogatory talk about the two of them,
I will punish the offenders severely. After today, whoever is brought before me will get the punishment of a slanderer. Verily, the best of this nation after its Prophet (صلي الله عليه و سلم) is Abu Bakr and ‘Umar, may Allah be pleased with them. Then Allah knows best who the best is. I am saying this asking Allah’s Forgiveness for both you and myself.’”
The following two sentences from the above are enough to send shivers up anyone's spine.
"only a pious believer loves them, and only a wretched sinner hates them"
"May Allah curse anyone who holds inside himself anything but goodness and gratitude towards the both of them"
Once Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (ra) expressed his support to Abu Bakr and Umar. Wife of Imam Jaffar as Sadiq asked him about Abu Bakr and Umar.
He replied, "I support them.
Then he said to his wife, you should support them too."
His wife replied, "So should I say to my creator when I meet Him, that it is your order to support Abu Bakr and Umar." The truthful Imam Jaffar replied, Yes." - *Source: Rawzatul Kafi, vol.8, p.101 *
Once, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (ra) while sitting with his companions, praised Abu Bakr by calling him the truthful ("as-Siddiq"). One of his companions got astonished by this remark and inquired if he (the Imam) really meant what he said.
Upon this Imam al-Baqir replied, "Yes, Abu Bakr is truthful and whoever does not give this attribution to him, then may God make that person(who did not give the attribute) helpless on the day of resurrection" Source: Kashful Ghumamah, vol.2, p.174]
The above is all in plain English - Read it word by word - see if has any effect on you. Does it sends shivers up your spine?
If not then, following is so appropriate.
They know not, nor do they discern, for He has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, and their hearts, so that they cannot understand. Isaiah 44:18
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
LOL
And they say that Pathans are angry species. You should take a cold shower or something to settle you down first. I have never taken part in polemics because they are mostly with the aim of reassuring ones own beliefs rather than searching for the truth. And why somebody waste their time on countering arguments that aren't even proper arguments nor original is beyond me.
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
??? If you as a Pathan are angry, how does it help you if I were to take a cold shower???
Trust me, I am willing to take a cold shower if that helps you but how this is going to work is beyond me???
Dear Brother Pathan Bhai I can vouch for your decency – Tell me, how would one search for the TRUTH if one doesn’t discuss and explore for the TRUTH?
Why should one be so blinded by what been fed to him and not read and believe when the evidence is presented from his own books?
Fear of discovering the TRUTH is the biggest obstacle.
Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) played the major role in Hz. Ali’s (ra) marriage to Hz. Fatimah (ra)!!
One day , Abu Bakr , Umar and Saad bin Muadh were sitting in the masjid nabwi. Abu Bakr said that the nobles of Quraish asked the Prophet (s) about the hand of Fatima (i.e they wanted to marry her), he replied that the matter of Fatima is with Allah, whomever He wills, He will marry her to him.” And Ali hasn’t talked to the Prophet (s) about this , and in my opinion, nothing is stopping Ali except poverty. Than Abu Bakr said to Umar and Muadh, stand up and lets go to Ali and convince him for asking the hand of Fatima , if poverty is stopping him, than we shall help him.
Saad said “You are absolutely correct O Abu Bakr”. So they stood up and then went to Ali. Ali was not present at his home, He had gone to the garden of an Ansari to water it for wages. They reached there, Ali inquired the reason for their coming, upon which Abu Bakr said “You have excelled others in good deeds and you are close to the Prophet (s) also, what is prohibiting you from asking the hand of Fatima.
When Ali heard this, his eyes filled with tears. He said “Who doesn’t want to marry Fatima? But due to poverty, I feel shy to express my sentiments.” So they convinced him for this matter and he agreed to go to the Prophet (s). Ali came back to his home, and then went towards the Prophet (s).** (Jila ul Ayun, p. 122-123) **; Similar tradition is present in **Bihar al Anwar , Vol. 10, p. 37-38.
**
Al Dahaaq bin Muzahim said: I heard ‘Ali bin Abi Taalib mention: I was visited by Abu Bakr and ‘Umar, and they said to me during their visit: Why don’t you approach the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and request to marry his daughter Fatimah?
I did as they suggested and when I entered upon the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), he smiled and said: What has brought you here oh ‘Ali? I then mentioned to him my nearness (in relation) to him and my early acceptance of Islam. I also mentioned my support and assistance of him. He agreed with my statement, at which point I said: Would you marry me to Fatimah… (Kitaab al Amalee vol.1 pg.38)
Ali said “I came out of the house of the Prophet (s) and I was very happy, I met Abu Bakr and Umar in the way. They asked me what happened that you are so happy, I said “The Prophet has told me that Allah has married Fatima to me in the heavens, and now he is going to come out of his home and announce it in the public. Abu Bakr and Umar became extremely happy at this and came to masjid nabawi with me .
The Prophet reached soon, than he told Bilal to gather Muhajireen and Ansar, which Bilal did. When all the people gathered, than the Prophet sat on the pulpit. After praising God, he said “O Muslims, Gabriel had come to me and informed me that Allah has made the angels witnesses that He has married Fatima to Ali, and has ordered me to marry Fatima to Ali and make all of you witnesses on the earth. -** Bihar al anwar, Vol. 10, p. 38 Manaqib, by Khwarizmi, p. 251 Jila ul Ayun, p. 125 Kashaful Ghumma, by Ardbeli, Vol. 1, p. 471**
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
Its narrated from Abu Abdullah jafar sadiq(as) that he used to say: Abubakar have given me birth twice. Because that his mother umme farwa was the daughter of qasim bin muhammed bin abubaker and his grand mother Asma was daughter of abdul rahman bin abubakar. (firq al shia , page 78)
Enough said by me on this thread
Re: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a
[quote]
???????????????? If you as a Pathan are angry, how does it help you if I were to take a cold shower??????
Trust me, I am willing to take a cold shower if that helps you but how this is going to work is beyond me????
[/QUOTE]
ROFL@Ibn Sadiq
Nice playing with others words. Shabash.
