Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Are you asking about which madhab is the word of Allah? They all take their proofs from the Qur’an and Sunnah. They don’t differ in aqeeda (articles of faith), but they have differences of opinion on the details of implementation for different matters. And neither of the 4 madhabs thinks of themselves as the only correct interpretation and the others wrong.

22

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

as always, long long posts…nobody bothered to answer the point mentioned here :hehe:

‘informed decision’ is ok to make when choosing a madhab, but the same option is not available if a person wants to make ‘informed decision’ on different issues and opinions…

23

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

It is to accommodate differences but reality is only aima practically accommodated the differences among them. All the sects today hate each other, not to speak of accommodating differences.

24

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Peace philosophy

There are three aspects to Deen Islam …

Aqeedah, Fiqh, and Tasswwuf

These deal with our requirements in Iman, Islam (Shari’ah) and Ihsan

We are given the least allowable flexibility in aqeedah because that is what makes us Muslim or non-Muslim it is linked to the belief itself, then we are given more flexibility for variance in Fiqh, as this depends on how we implement practically various modes of physical rites, and ritual actions, they do not bear directly on our belief except that we must believe that RasoolAllah (SAW) did them, sanctioned them, forbade them or superseded them and so on … Then we the art of being which tries to marry the intent of worship in to each practical endeavour and optimising a mode of behaviour and character that is like or as close as possible to the archetype character of RasoolAllah (SAW).

So this is the reason why your statement cannot apply … Different religions are a matter of aqeedah … Different madhahib are a matter of fiqh.

25

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Does the leader ever be a follower?

A madhab is essentially "a systematic approach to following the Sunnah" ... So each madhab is following the Sunnah ... In their own understanding ... But to ask the question "which madhab did RasoolAllah (SAW) follow" is a misunderstanding of madhab ... Because that would translate to "which approach to following the Sunnah was used by the one who the Sunnah is based on?"

The answer is all of them and none of them ... RasoolAllah (SAW) set the Sunnah now we follow it ...I hope you understand that distinction.

26

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Quran: The most authentic source of guidance.

Hadith: Most of them are authentic, some might not be that reliable

Imams: Lease reliable of the three. I am not sure if their guidance has never been prone to 'editing'. Anyways, they give you guidelines based on their interpretations of the above two.

If you find some guidelines not exactly in accordance with the first two, you can choose not to follow. I don't think one has to follow strictly the third source of guidance if any of the first two seem clear enough on a given subject.

I don't believe people would be judged on the judgement day on how exactly they performed wudu or where (if) they tied their hands in salat or if they consumed some jelly beans which had traces of ingredients that had traces of gelatin from pigs.

27

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Peace kakaballi

If you truly believe the Qur’an is the first and major source of Islam … Then how does that statement above that you made compare with the Qur’an?

Namely in reference to this verse …
Surat Az-Zalzalah [99:7-8] - The Noble Qur’an - ??? ???

every atom’s weight of good and evil we shall see it …

Surely following scholars will ensure we do follow Qur’an and Hadith properly because they will point out to us where things are mentioned in the Qur’an and Hadith because they are more familiar with them than we are …

Just as I have by chance pointed out this verse … And it’s implication that we ought to be prudent about every act we do, no matter how trivial we think it is …

28

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

It seems very illogical that so many people just try to follow one Aalim or Imam rigidly.

At times they think whatever their pir, Aalim or moulvi said must be true.

Not only it promotes laziness but it also gives a false sense of security that even if the person does something wrong the gunah will be on the Imam or Moulvi.

There are people who even do bayt on one particular Aalim and ask solution of everyday problem including job, education and marital issues from these Aalim.

It is risky but whatever floats their boat.

29

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

If we read the biographies of the 4 major Imams; they have all stated very specifically that if any of their rulings contradict a hadith that they were unaware of, then the hadith should take precedence. The Siraat is Quran and Sunnah, and the Madhabs are the avenues within them, so to speak. Do not be afraid to practice all the sunnahs even if they happen to be outside the norm of any one madhab.

Just my personal opinion. I am still learning, and know very little.

Allah knows best.

30

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Yes, but is (for example) the position of your hands during salat related to good and evil? Imam’s had to produce guidelines because Quran and Sunnah were silent or obscure for some issues. The fact that different Imams interpret the same thing differently is a demonstration of the fact that those things are obscure to begin with. Would I be judged on obscure things? I hope not.

The verse is a fantastic reference. If someone does something considered ‘khair’ in Quaran or Sunnah, or considered ‘sher’ in Quran or Sunnah, he/she would be judged accordingly. If something is so obscure that different scholars reached different conclusions about it, you can follow any, but I really really hope those are not the issues we would be judged on.

31

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

None of the madhabs considers the other to be a separate sect. We all pray together without any problems. When we have people from different madhabs praying in a single congregation, they're all accommodated. For instance, the Hanafis don't need to do an individual qirat (reciting of Fatiha + surah) in their salat, whereas the Shafis do. So when Shafis are in the jamaat, the imam slows it down to allow them enough time for their qirat.

Whatever any of the madhabs follow are based on accounts of what Nabi (SAW) said or did. One of the functions of the madhab is to analyze the different proofs and then see which one should be preferred over the other. The 4 imams had their own systematic methods for according preference to certain proofs over others.

Following the imams is following the Qur'an and Sunnah. The imams differ in matters where Qur'an and Sunnah don't give you something conclusive. So the matters you mentioned like trying hands in salat, performance of wudhu (though, it's more the things that nullify wudhu that they differ in). So you're right, if Qur'an and Sunnah are clear enough on any subject, we don't need to follow the imams for it. If that were the case for any given matter, the imams themselves would not have differed on them either.

32

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

selective reading amazes me......

33

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Peace kakaballi

Judgment will be on the intention behind our actions ... If our intention is to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah then we demonstrate this by following those who know it better than us. We would be kidding ourselves to say that we follow Qur'an and Sunnah while not be experts in either.

If between scholars there are opposing views we are usually not in a position to know what is right or wrong, but a scholar will give ruling that is consistent with a number of other things that his madhab also states ... So it's about calibration and internal consistency.

And there are some major points that they differ in too ... We can't necessarily trivialise a matter purely because two madhab's differ on it and hence conclude that those issues must be minor and insignificant ... We would have to ascertain the significance ...

Now to use your example ... If one madhab says the prophet (SAW) put his hands like this and another says he (SAW) put his hands like that ... It now becomes a matter of which opinion is right in order to gain more reward from it ... A false ruling backed up from Qur'an or Hadith is one reward and a correct ruling from Qur'an and Hadith is two rewards. It's not always as simple as a choice ... Rather it includes the weight of that choice ... Are we doing it out of convenience or out of prudence? Which is better being convenient or being prudent?

Atom's weight of good and evil here can just as easily refer to how we trivialise or value good and bad in the non-obligatory acts ... These are the reasons for the variations ... The wisdom behind following a given madhab is usually because it ensures a level of internal consistency to do so ... It prevents little paradoxes and conflicts and contradictions that could develop if we go down the route of choosing our own path ... Even if that path bounces between two or more established paths ...

Following a madhab also allows us to give up a state of arrogance too ... It allows us to second guess our own opinions and enables our submitting to be more perfect ... There are some things we understand and others we don't ... We oblige ourselves to submit before authority of knowledge in areas we do not understand ... Which we tend not to do if we don't respect or follow our leaders enough ...

The principle of following authority stems from Qur'an and Hadith ... So a madhab is just like that ... Where a system is established to create communal and singular harmony ...

34

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

If we are not experts in either Qur'an or Sunnah (as you said earlier), how do we "ascertain the significance" of the matters where the madhabs differ? How would we know if a particular 'madhab' is 'right' on that matter if we chose to follow a madhab because we felt we were incapable of interpreting Quran and Sunnah ourselves?

For me, most of the "important" matter of difference among are philosophical in nature and do not affect how we behave with other human beings or how we pray. Most of us follow a particular 'madhab' because our parents did so and they did because their parents did so. Most of us do not choose to follow a certain Imam after an in depth study of each and every (what you call) madhab. I am sure even you have not researched a lot about "madhabs" other than the one you follow.

So, if there are inconsistent views about a matter, would the rewards be based on those? I really really hope not. I am not a very religious person but such things take me further away from religion. How can I ever be sure that one act according to one madhab brings more reward than a similar one according to another? There is no way of knowing exactly. I am sorry but God would appear unjust to me if He rewards or punishes more or less for things He did not clearly communicate.

Yes, please keep it that way and not make it a matter of reward or punishment.

35

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Peace kakaballi

For us the issue is not about being right or wrong ... That is an issue for the scholars ... Our concern should be whether we are sincere or not ... And that sincerity should come about by following a madhab ... Which gives us security in the fact that members of all four of those madhabs are to be considered believers and brethren in Islam ... As all of them have equal weight to the layman ... But we choose one over another through matters of convenience ... Such as family members already practicing it, our teachers being from it, the locality being predominantly from it, or that we study it a little and choose to give it a go and it sticks ... And so on.

The philosophy or theosophy of the accepted madhabs within the Ahl-us-Sunnah are the SAME or at least variant by no major degree. Yes, I have placed most of my research on my own madhab, but I have also become acquainted with some of discussions and actual intermingling of the earlier discussions around the differences and they are subtle, but they produce a type of avenue that different people will gravitate to based on what they feel is right.

People who are more cautious with dubious Hadith and are particular about their outward rites are more likely to be Hanbali or Shafi ... People who are favouring of the majority and like to include scientific findings to etch their understanding of various practices will tend to follow Hanafi ... People who like to be practical and self-challenging tend to be Maliki ...otherwise all of them follow Sunnah in accordance with how their founders understood it and how their students have aggregated the collective learning through time ... Each flower blossoming from the same plant but each one unique.

A madhab - one of the four is confidence in being close to the truth ... The variance between them is the blessing of flexibility, and is truly a choice.

To only be sure about something is to study it and then to choose it based on that study ... You may not be right at the end of the day even after your study ... But at least you can tell Allah (SWT) that you tried to the best of your ability to find the stronger or better opinion and followed it with sincerity.

36

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Yes, that's the idea.

I am just saying that I don't think following one 'madhab' would give you more reward v/s another in the instances where clear instructions are missing. As you said, it depends on your intention, 'why' are you doing a particular act.

37

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

And perhaps there lies the biggest problem.

Scholars will have to answer their acts. There is no guarantee that Aalim are always right and they will not be punished.

People will still be held responsible for their acts, no excuses.

Best people should do is to get the advice but also look for the validity of the advice given.

Otherwise it will be like people will be sheep and Aalim as their herder.

**
Human are not supposed to live lives as sheep.**

I know the counter argument of doctor advising the patient and similarly people should refer to a particular Aalim for advice.

But this argument has flaw in itself.

Quran and Hadith are not like medical or scientific knowledge. Moreover, even doctors can make wrong judgment.

38

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

diwana bro there is a better counter than the doctor analogy and that is the analogy of being "Muslim" ... One is not a true Muslim until he "submits" ... places his trust in the authority before him ... Ijma of scholars is considered binding on the ummah ... If we do not understand something it does not mean that we do not obey ... Just like Iblis ... He disobeyed Allah(SWT) when instructed to prostrate before the Adamic form. At the point his intellect had never been tested ... When it was tested he arrogated his position to disobedience ...

A scholar can even give evidence for a ruling ... And that may still be rejected by someone who wants to use his own intellect on the matter ... But for the people of humility, a scholar with ijaza, and good character is itself enough evidence for them to place their trust in his verdict ...

39

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

I completely understand the need to turn to Scholars who have spent years to derive rulings on many, many topics. Each of the for main madhabs use hadith to form rulings, and there's no confusion about that. So all can be right, AND hold differing opinions on the same matter.

Having said the above, WHY cant I pick and chose a different madhab for different queries? Since all have based their rulings on sound sources...

40

Re: Having a hard time understanding madhabs

Bhai sahab,

These madhabs or sects are made by people on issues which are small or even trivial.

Islam is about submission to Allah, not to ONE Aalim, Sheikh or Moulvi.

People have made imaginary lead walls among different ideas (brought by different Aalims in the past) themselves. Nothing to do with Islam.

Neither Allah nor his prophet asked people to follow just one person however knowledgeable that person may be. Most of the Imams which people strictly follow themselves never asked people to follow them so rigidly. They just gave their opinions on small matters.

Lower levels of Moulvis in different masjids are the one who keep giving sermons or teaching people these small matters are somehow big enough that if one does not follow exactly as he says, the person will be a bad Muslim.

To follow only one interpretation rigidly/strictly carries the message somehow other interpretations are false or wrong. And common people do think like.

There is no sin if a person consults different Imam interpretation,
a) if it does not contradict Quran and

b) if that person finds one interpretation unreasonable or even not possible to follow, since all Imams basically are right.

**
It has been long due and is now time to educate people to quit this habit of being divided on little matters.**