Re: Has feminism, ironically, done a disservice to women?
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*Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
Very apt. So is feminism to blame? Or men still?
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Um... neither? Why does someone have to be blamed? And if you must have a scapegoat, why are the above the only choices?
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*Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
And marriage. Before it was defined by dependance, the man depended on the woman to take care of the homefront and the woman on the man to take care of her financial and living needs. But now, there is no dependance. Women work, no one needs a marriage to have children, or a wife to take care of the kids. So what is marriage now without the dependance? Just an intimate and sexual connection - the one thing you can't get on your own, measured by mutual orgasms. So is feminism to blame? Because feminism made women independant -> and this helped change the definition of marriage,
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Actually, this shows a very limited understanding of marriage. Marriage is about trust and caring. So what if you don't need each other for financial needs or food? And actually, you don't really need each other for orgasms either.
What you do need, and can get, from marriage, is someone to share your happiness and concerns. Someone to rely on when you need help, and someone to make you feel needed. Someone to understand you. I don't really see a problem in what you described above. Are you saying that men and women can gain nothing else from each other?
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*Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
Perhaps most ironic of all is that the value of woman is measured by her looks. She is good for nothing else than sex. Maids for cleaning. Day cares and nannies for rearing children. What good is a woman to a man?
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And the above shows a deep misunderstanding of what it means to be a woman and what women mean for men. I don't really even know how to start with this.
Re: Re: Has feminism, ironically, done a disservice to women?
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*Originally posted by Sahar02: *
Um... neither? Why does someone have to be blamed? And if you must have a scapegoat, why are the above the only choices?
Actually, this shows a very limited understanding of marriage. Marriage is about trust and caring. So what if you don't need each other for financial needs or food? And actually, you don't really need each other for orgasms either.
What you do need, and can get, from marriage, is someone to share your happiness and concerns. Someone to rely on when you need help, and someone to make you feel needed. Someone to understand you. I don't really see a problem in what you described above. Are you saying that men and women can gain nothing else from each other?
And the above shows a deep misunderstanding of what it means to be a woman and what women mean for men. I don't really even know how to start with this.
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Very well said, in fact you summed up exactly what I thought, except I didn;t think such absolute bakwas deserved over 5 minuets from me.
this thread and reasoning employed in it are baseless......from both sides.
you are mixing up feminism and its tenets with other aspects of the american society. I've read about arguments like: workrate among women, age of child bearing, divorce rates, effectiveness for society etc etc etc
The real 'feminism' in my opinion can be seen in Holland: average age of first child is approaching 30, workrate is around 35-55% in various fields, divorce rates are way much lower than in the US: this is 'effective feminism', not what we're getting to see from the US....that's overdoing it
Re: Re: Re: Has feminism, ironically, done a disservice to women?
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*Originally posted by skhan: *
Are you implying what Sarah says about marriage is nonexistent?
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Not at all. I'm just saying that marriage isn't limited to what she described. So by removing the more tangible factors like money and sex, that doesn't mean you're removing the value of marriage itself.
I really don't think that the merits of marriage can be easily quantified.
And I think it's silly to manipulate it in order to make an argument against feminism.
Feminism is all bout women and their rights. Yes some women do take advantage of that but that doesnot mean all women should be blamed for the mistakes of a few.
Women would be still burnt in the name of Sati, there would still be a ban on women on voting, driving and being liberated enough to speak whats on their minds without the fear of getting beaten.
Pevs are unlimited, learn to deal with the fact that woman are a sex symbol regardless.
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Actually, this shows a very limited understanding of marriage. Marriage is about trust and caring. So what if you don't need each other for financial needs or food? And actually, you don't really need each other for orgasms either.
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Orgasms is exactly whats desired out of marriage
Good orgasms and healthy children that is.
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What you do need, and can get, from marriage, is someone to share your happiness and concerns. Someone to rely on when you need help, and someone to make you feel needed. Someone to understand you. I don't really see a problem in what you described above. Are you saying that men and women can gain nothing else from each other?
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Oh please and to no offence but sharing happiness and concerns can be done with friends too. You dont need a marraige for that. As for feeling needed erm thats pretty unhealthy if one feels the need to be needed.
things start to get ugly when women do something just to prove themselves. 'if he can do it, so can i'. it becomes an issue of ego. other than that there is always a room for compromise depending on how far you are willing to go.
my ex-fiancée is a german and is very career oriented(and mashallah she has a good career and is on her way to the top). and there is nothing wrong in that. however, one cannot have everything. its always going to be your decision and how you prioritize things in your life. u get some u lose some.
and yes managers do tend to prefer a man over a woman (for hiring) one of the reasons for that is to make the work environment more diverse :-) this is specially true for engineering departments where mostly you will find men.
What alternatives do you suggest?