Re: Halloween and other occasions
^ Itna ghussa? Humari President sahiba ka kehna hai ki ghussa is haram.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
****Pakistanis firmly believe that anyone or anything that doesn't agree with them is conphuuused.
So all this hoopla and arguments (every year) is just pakistanis perceiving all of that as confused?? lol
PS: i am glad you let it out ;)
Re: Halloween and other occasions
^ Itna ghussa? Humari President sahiba ka kehna hai ki ghussa is haram.
Humari President Khatoon hain. I didn't know :o
Re: Halloween and other occasions
So over the past weekend, on an Eid get together, I met a couple of desi families and the discussion went on to halloween, christmas etc. A couple of people were firmly against the idea of even letting the kids dress up and have fun. When I asked them their reasons, I got varied responses
**'it's a pagan festival (regarding Halloween). If the whole concept is wrong why let the kids celebrate'
'aaj kul log Eid se zyada to ye sab manatay hain..bache as a result kehte hain hum Eid pe sotay hain sara din..bara boring hota hai'
'yea abi you are letting them celebrate Halloween and Christmas, would you allow them to celebrate Valentine's Day as well when they grow up or start dating, go to prom and after parties. where do you draw the line'
'I don't see anything wrong in it. if you are living in their country, you better well accept the cultural things and occasions too. we dont want our kids growing up as weird outcasts'**
So what do you think? Do you celebrate these occasions , days etc or not? If you do, how do you draw the line. Can kids learn to differentiate on the individual importance of Ramadan, Eids in comparison with Halloween, Christmas, Holi, Diwali etc?
No, we don't celebrate those occasions/days at all.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Humari President Khatoon hain. I didn't know :o
Humein Khatoon kaun ye nahin pata. Hum is mehfil ki President ki charcha kar rahe the.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Acha ji! No gussa from now :)
Re: Halloween and other occasions
If we both agree that Halloween is not a means of assimilation then why you came to defend for those who do to try to use it to ‘assimilate’? 
My post 107 was against those who argued earlier to do these rituals to get better assimilated and not to you. (See post 115 again)
Now if someone does it in Pakistan then what can I say for them besides …you know what! 
Re: Halloween and other occasions
So all this hoopla and arguments (every year) is just pakistanis perceiving all of that as confused?? lol
PS: i am glad you let it out ;)
If people don't agree with Pakistani views...they are conphused. The argument is basically when one person says something and the other disagrees. Confusion. You say you don't like and if we say we do...ve are the conphuuuuused.
That winking smiley is very creepy.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Assimilating into a society does not mean that one cannot retain their own cultural/ethnic identity. In fact in order to live harmoniously in a multicultural society some degree of assimilation is essential. Diversity provides opportunity of cultural expansions and a broaden world view. I will take TLK example of shopping on thanksgiving, boxing day sales or bbq and fireworks on 4rth of july. All part of cultural assimilation. Even a small gesture as saying "have a good day"or "cheers" is a cultural thing. We don't say it in Pakistan.
To the foolish assimilation means wanna be attitude and losing one's own identity whereas as in reality it is a important and effective cultural communication practice which each and everyone of us practice on some level.
I have no problem with people who do not want to take part in cultural events in the society. Its their choice and they have all the right to make that choice. I on the other hand choose to take part in any type of festivity that my town and its people celebrate. When I am traveling I even join the local celebration of that culture.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Perhaps someone does not know what assimilation means. :D
It does mean "absorbing" someone's culture in to one's own culture and live a different lifestyle than one's own. :)
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Like I said earlier and will repeat here:
If someone does not want to use halloween as a means to 'assimilate' then they should be free to do so.
If they only want to take advantage of sale for financial reason then they should not be criticized even if they do not agree with the idea behind Halloween. These people can be from any religion.
People should be free to choose what they consider good for them and for whatever reason.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Perhaps someone does not know what assimilation means. :D
It does mean "absorbing" someone's culture in to one's own culture and live a different lifestyle than one's own. :)
But for someone born and raised in America..certain things *are *their culture and lifestyle. My children are 2nd generation born and raised in the US, they've never been to India/Pakistan. They have no reason to, as both my family and my husband's family are settled here. So Halloween, Thanksgiving, 4th of July IS their culture!
I am raising to know that they are 1) Muslim first 2) American second and then of Indo/Pak descent, so for me personally, I will continue to immerse them in celebrations and festivities from all walks of life...if for no other reason than to strengthen and explain what our own religion teaches us.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
This is hilarious.
I love threads like this.
If your kid is gonna consider converting to paganism because you dressed them up and took them around to get some candy, you have failed as a parent who provides a good Islamic nurturing. I'm sorry, no point sugarcoating that fact. (SWIDT?)
I wrote an extremely long post and addressed each person individually who has such a fiery hate for halloween.
But the bottom line is, if someone wants to dress up their kid and go out "begging" for candy, why not just let them?
It's not your kid. It's not your business. You don't want to do it, thats fine. If someone else wants to, why does it make it something negative?
I went out and bought a Luigi costume for a party and went to another party dressed up as Clark Kent/Superman and I can assure you, NO ONE engaged in worship of the devil or the sun. If you think that makes me a bad muslim, please kindly stick that opinion about me up your bum. How I practice my religion is between me and Allah. How dare you interfere.
If you expect tolerance, show tolerance.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Perhaps someone does not know what assimilation means. :D
It does mean "absorbing" someone's culture in to one's own culture and live a different lifestyle than one's own. :)
Although assimilation in a multicultural sense does not mean losing one's cultural identity (diversity and assimilation aren't always mutually exclusive and before you Wikipedia me, I wrote my thesis on intercultural communication in a heterogeneous society) I will replace it with acculturation for your convenience.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
But for someone born and raised in America..certain things *are *their culture and lifestyle. My children are 2nd generation born and raised in the US, they've never been to India/Pakistan. They have no reason to, as both my family and my husband's family are settled here. So Halloween, Thanksgiving, 4th of July IS their culture!
I am raising to know that they are 1) Muslim first 2) American second and then of Indo/Pak descent, so for me personally, I will continue to immerse them in celebrations and festivities from all walks of life...if for no other reason than to strengthen and explain what our own religion teaches us.
People who hop around various activites for fun have no set culture. No**t that anything wrong with that.
**
Now: There are two aspects:
One is fun aspect of engaging in many different activites.
Other is having an identity.** If someone wants to have an identity then they should be free to do so.
**
By the way US has no definite culture and it is a land of immigrants, and it is a mixture of different cultures, religions and social activites.
All are good and valid.
All thoughts about liking halloween activity or not liking are valid. it depends how you look at this particular event.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Although assimilation in a multicultural sense does not mean losing one's cultural identity **(diversity and assimilation aren't always mutually exclusive and before you Wikipedia me, I wrote my thesis on intercultural communication in a heterogeneous society) I will replace it with **acculturation for your convenience.
I still beg to differ with bold part of your post and yes, the word acculturation is whole lot better than assimilation but both essentially give same meaning of losing one's unique identity and adapting other.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
People who hop around various activites for fun have no set culture.
LOL? WTH!!
That is so incorrect.
You have an extremely twisted view of multiculturalism.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
Explain how is it incorrect to say one who hops around different activities has one set culture.
You use multiculturism word but insist that these people have a set culture?
Anyone who is engaged in many different cultural activites cannot be said to have one set culture.
Now a group of people and country like US can be considered multicultural. It is as simple as it can get.
Re: Halloween and other occasions
You think multiculturalism is letting go of one's ways and adopting another, or jumping between different things and not having your own set ways. Lol that's hilarious.
I see multiculturalism as practising your own culture but also being tolerant of other cultures, and being able to co-exist without any problems. Taking part in their traditions? Yes, why not?
Re: Halloween and other occasions
You think multiculturalism is letting go of one's ways and adopting another, or jumping between different things and not having your own set ways. Lol that's hilarious.
I see multiculturalism as practising your own culture but also being tolerant of other cultures, and being able to co-exist without any problems. Taking part in their traditions? Yes, why not?
Read what I wrote above again.
Multiculturism applies to a group of people with different cultures or a country which has many different people with different cultures and a person who is engaged in different activities does not have a set culture that person is said to be assimilated.
People from any background should be free to be culturally 'assimilated' or not in US for any reason. Does not make them any less American.
There has never been any material discussion about tolerance or no tolerance, coexisting or not, ever, so try not come up with another issue.