Its funny considering halloween isn't an American tradition.
It is. It didn't originate in America, but now it really is a mainly American thing. To the rest of the world Halloween has not really been a big deal in the past. In my childhood I had not even heard of it. However in the last five or six years it has gained in popularity a lot (here in Europe). I had six or seven different groups of kids knocking at our door last Wednesday evening. This would not have been the case 5 years ago.
I have grown up in the Middle East and in the UK and never have I seen gora's trying to copy our rituals or trying to be like us, even in the middle east.
Having lived in Dubai for four years I can tell you: They do.
Reha, I am not against enjoying the time off with family .. We all know Christmas and New years time we get bank holidays .. we do our family stuff , thats fine ..
What I am not in the favour of is when muslim families start decorating Christmas trees as home, wishing each other Christmas , gifting each other with the intention of celebrating Christmas ..
Dont we have Eid for it?
Here in the UK, some muslim families go out of their way to celebrate the non Islamic occasions .. Their kids know everything about those events and hardly know or get excited about the Islamic events .. so much so that some parents dont even take a day off over Eid ..
All other religions are to be respected and we must all live in harmony, purely for that reason we wish all our friends seasons greetings on their occasions but dont really let those occasions gain much important in our lives .. simple as that .. I would rather put a lighting wire decorating my house on the outside at Eid time , then doing it on Christmas ..
Anyways its been made very clear to us muslims that only certain festivities hold important in Islam , all others are not to be celebrated. For many of us muslims , some are religious, some are not. Some will always like to stay close to Islam and hence will shun not only these non islamic occasions , but even alot of biddah's that have entered Islam like all the urs's and darbars etc and khatams etc .. While there will still be other muslims who will carry on becoming a part of all of this ..
I think Diwana's post makes alot of sense and it definitely summarizes things alot more clearly ..
Jahan convenience nahi hai, wo haraam. Jahan faeda hai, wo halal.
2- Who in the right mind would not take advantage of any sale?
They just go for the low price just like anyone **with any religion **would do.
4- If candies are on sale and on low price on this ocassion or any item is on sale before and after Christmas, then anyone including Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Athiests, Buddhas etc. can and should enjoy the financial benefit despite disagreeing with the whole background.
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Thanks for proving my point.
The success of Christmas in countries like USA is measured, not by how many people went to church, but how many people went to the mall. When you support that sale, you are supporting the Christmas. Kaan idhar se pakro yaa oodhar se, it the same thing.
And when you quoted all other religions taking advantage of the sale too, then all the other religion ke loug shor bhi nahi machaatay ke Halloween kee celebration haraam hai. This is another example of convenience. Jahan apna faeda hai then bring example of other religion, Werna wohi other religion becomes Kuffar. At that time we get the lectures that dont mimic kuffars, because that is a sin. Then dont mimic kuffars in taking advantage of Christmas sale also dude. Its a sin.
Sorry guys , I dont understand , why are sales being connected with Christmas? Sales have no religious value what so ever … Christmas has an immense religious value ..
Khair maybe I am not grasping this concept very well but am genuinely surprised that some form of a connection is being formulated between shopping and a religious event
Yeah I do give my kids eidi but I don’t send them out to knock at other people’s doors for eidi.
Halloween kids would throw eggs and rub crap on your main door if you don’t open the door for them. That’s the whole idea of trick o treat. (Now Muzna and TLK would say their kids don’t do that but that’s not my point).
Exactlty, they are not. And in the same way, buying or distributing candies has nothing to do with devil worshiping or any other religious aspect
Oh Ok.. now , I agree nothing wrong with buying candies at all.
But distributing and then collecting them on a festivity as a "treat" because you dont want to be "tricked" is becoming part of the festivity and acknowleding it. I think thats what some of us are contesting here.. Acknowledging a non islamic occasion by following their rituals.
its ok for those living in western countries. but it disgusts me to no end when brown goray here go around doing halloween, having learned of it only in movies n stuff. wanabe douchebags
hmmm...sad indeed. It's the biggest holiday in US, right? makes sense why everyone is so passionate about it...those who favour it and those who oppose it. lol
Its not really the biggest day in the US I think...its a lot of fun and hype for sure. I think Christmas is much bigger and so is Thanksgiving.
So adult muslims don't celebrate Halloween? Why?
I've not really celebrated Halloween since leaving the 3rd grade I think. My parents were severely against dressing up. They don't like saying no to the kiddies so we're always armed with a ton of candy but that's it. I've never been to a Halloween party as an adult and even at work when everyone else was going all out, I'd just keep some candy at my desk to give to people. I don't really care about it that much.
I think when you grow up with a culture that is different from your parents' culture, you find a way to make peace between the two.
well if you choose to avoid halloween, and your little kid goes to public school, how would you explain to him/her why he/she can't participate in the festivities his/her friends, neighbours and teachers rave about, in a way that does not sow the seeds of us vs. them in their own country? is your kid going to grow up a well adjusted adult in the society he is going to live in? well he probably will, kids are smart. but i'd be curious how many of the abcd guppies stayed away from this stuff as kids.
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Right on. Living in Pakistan, I don't thinks there's anyone who can ignore Eid. We get a 3 day holiday, dead animals everywhere(Eid-ul-Adha). Imagine a non-Muslim trying to completely shun the Holiday. Hah, good luck with that.
Halloween probably similar when it comes to North America. Everyone's celebrating it, you can't stay away from it altogether. That'd be stupid.
Queer, you raise a good point. I have responded to this same point earlier.
Kids become confused and want to do all this even more coz their parents arent making an effort to let kids know whats right from wrong.
When I was a little kid, my environment was similar to what Reha described above, i was allowed to give away candy to friends if they asked for it but was not allowed to ask for some. I was told that halloween wasnt a very special day. If I insisted that I wanted to be dressed as a certain something, my elders would dress me up in a fancy dress days later, take a few pics and thats about it , we never ever went tricking and treating ..
as I grew enough to understand the religious concepts, constant reiteration from the elders made it easier for me to understand why we dont celebrate this stuff.
Earlier this week my friends daughters aged 5 and 7 threw tantrums that they wanted to go to the halloween party thrown by their best buddy at school, kids will be tricking and treating in a small group... She refused.
She has informed the kids that in two weeks time they are having a fancy dress party with the dress theme being "professions"... she has invited her daughters close friends. all of them know that this is not a halloween party, its a fancy dress party for the kids to enjoy some time with friends over the weekend. There isnt going to be any tricking or treating.
Do the kids care if its halloween or not? not really ! all that matters to them is that they get to dress up different and show it to their friends , there are activities and games planned for the kids , exactly like a birthday party .. and they are happy ..
ultimately kids need to be taught to distinguish between right and wrong. the easiest way to get out of a challenge is to say thngs like " if we dont do it , our kids will feel left out" ... fact is, you are not really helping your kids, you are actually confusing them even more ... by changing the dynamics of the party , my friend made a wise choice and has subtly instilled in the kids that halloween isnt important. they can still have fun without it !
well if you choose to avoid halloween, and your little kid goes to public school, how would you explain to him/her why he/she can't participate in the festivities his/her friends, neighbours and teachers rave about, in a way that does not sow the seeds of us vs. them in their own country? is your kid going to grow up a well adjusted adult in the society he is going to live in? well he probably will, kids are smart. but i'd be curious how many of the abcd guppies stayed away from this stuff as kids.
Just like you explain to them why it's okay for their 13 year old classmates to be involved in romantic relationships but not them, why it's okay for their 18 year old peers to booze away but not them. This is something we as kids understood that we live in a diverse, multicultural society where some kids don't celebrate Eid and others don't celebrate Christmas. We didn't cry ourselves to sleep just because we didn't have a Christmas tree. We'd give cards and gifts to our friends and neighbours on Christmas and that's more than enough to build a sense of community, you don't have to believe in Santa and you don't have to go trick n treating to be able to integrate with the community. And celebrating Halloween has nothing to do with growing up as a sane human being, in my opinion.
PS: I'm not against kids trick n treating, we did so ourselves. But I don't get why it's a big deal if some families choose not to take part in these festivities. How many non-muslims living in muslim countries buy a bakra just so their kids don't feel left out on bakra Eid? That doesn't cut them out of the community, does it?
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Right on. Living in Pakistan, I don't thinks there's anyone who can ignore Eid. We get a 3 day holiday, dead animals everywhere(Eid-ul-Adha). Imagine a non-Muslim trying to completely shun the Holiday. Hah, good luck with that.
There's a difference between ignoring and not celebrating.
There's a difference between ignoring and not celebrating.
Probably. I agree with making sure your kids don't spend their school years boozing, but Halloween seems pretty harmless, at least the one they have for kids.
