The Farm Animal Welfare Council, a government advisory body, is recommending that Muslims and Jews should no longer be allowed to slaughter animals without stunning them first. Its chairwoman, Dr Judy MacArthur Clark, says that animals suffer significantly unless they are stunned. Criticising the time it takes the animals to lose consciousness she stated, “Those are very significantly long periods of time for the animal to be suffering before it loses consciousness”. This position is being backed by animal welfare charity the RSPCA. Islam requires that Muslims slaughter animals whilst the animal is conscious and stunning the animal would invalidate the slaughter.
It seems after September 11th, the call towards integration has become stronger with even simple aspects of the Islamic belief, like the slaughter of meat, up for debate and review by the authorities. What this has shown is that there will always be an incompatibility in viewpoints between the Capitalist West and Muslims. The basis upon which Muslims perform actions, and determine the right from the wrong, is the commands of Allah (SWT). The non-Muslims however have their own mind as the criterion, and no doubt their minds will differ from what Allah (SWT) has judged all too often.
Unfortunately there are some who refused to be convinced that there is a contradiction between the Islamic and Capitalist viewpoints. They maintain the integrationist agenda by using all manner of justifications to fit in. They try and argue their point in the same way that the non-Muslims are arguing it, and not by using the Islamic justification. Hence on the issue of slaughtering meat, some Muslims have been arguing from a legal and medical basis or using counter arguments about animal welfare. In reality the only relevant point for Muslims is what Allah (SWT) has said, and it makes little difference whether the point can be made in any other way. Muslims risk falling into a trap if they cannot argue a stronger case than the non-Muslims, using their basis for argument. The classic example of this is the argument that Pork is dirty. The weakness of this argument is exposed if one is presented with clinically cleaned Pork. Does the Pork become Halal if it can be proved it is not dirty? It can never be Halaal because Allah (SWT) ordained it to be Haram, and the reason for it being Haram was not linked decisively to it being dirty. Hence, using a non-Islamic basis to justify Islam leads to disaster, through the blurring of the Islamic thought in the minds of Muslims.
The actions that Muslims perform are based on the revelation of Allah (SWT), the Creator of mankind and the universe, as such these actions need no justification. If anything the Muslims need to debate and prove the existence of Allah (SWT) to the disbelieving non-Muslims, which is something that can be done rationally beyond any doubt.
well then stop living in the land of "dis-obeying non-Muslims". Pack your bags and go somewhere where they allow you to slaughter animals the way you want.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
well then stop living in the land of "dis-obeying non-Muslims". Pack your bags and go somewhere where they allow you to slaughter animals the way you want.
simple.
[/QUOTE]
Please stick to t etopic at hand...intresting point about argument of proving pork is haram
salam my brother there is one way we can defeat this argument,
both means killing the animal the end result is the same, as muslims Allah has chosen for us a style to Slaughter and the kufar has chosen their own whims and desire to slaughter one halla and one haram
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
well then stop living in the land of "dis-obeying non-Muslims". Pack your bags and go somewhere where they allow you to slaughter animals the way you want.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by koyes: *
salam my brother there is one way we can defeat this argument,
both means killing the animal the end result is the same, as muslims Allah has chosen for us a style to Slaughter and the kufar has chosen their own whims and desire to slaughter one halla and one haram
[/QUOTE]
They probably need to do more research. I have read somewhere and personally believe it to be true that when "live" ( i mean conscious) animal is cut from throat the brain is "working" so body reacts to the pain caused by the cut and in doing so spills out most of its blood out of body. Meat of animal whose blood was removed due to slaughtering has been found to contain less blood and hence more tasty.
What those "animal welfare" people are fighting for is "pain" and not "life". They still want to "enjoy" the meat of an animal by killing and eating, but they don't want to feel the guilt of "pain" while ignoring the guilt of "killing" the animal.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
well then stop living in the land of "dis-obeying non-Muslims". Pack your bags and go somewhere where they allow you to slaughter animals the way you want.
simple.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. But the whiners will never do that. They will just complain.
They probably need to do more research. I have read somewhere and personally believe it to be true that when "live" ( i mean conscious) animal is cut from throat the brain is "working" so body reacts to the pain caused by the cut and in doing so spills out most of its blood out of body. Meat of animal whose blood was removed due to slaughtering has been found to contain less blood and hence more tasty.
What those "animal welfare" people are fighting for is "pain" and not "life". They still want to "enjoy" the meat of an animal by killing and eating, but they don't want to feel the guilt of "pain" while ignoring the guilt of "killing" the animal.
[/QUOTE]
Because of this process.....where the blood is pumped out of the animals body during slaughtering, halal meat is actually containing less blood making it more healthier(tastier i dunt know). That is one of the reasons halal was ordained on us...nothings without reason.
what can be done, is a study to back this up. This study should be presented, with all the bacteria and diseases spreading today, the healthier issue will come as a strong backup in their argument.
Well, seems to me that Dr Judy MacArthur Clark has lumped Jews and Muslims together in this issue. Thats good. That itself will make it a non-starter. Jews will take care of it (and her at the same time). Muslims, as usual, will just keep on bickering about it amongst themselves till the proverbial cows come home.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
well then stop living in the land of "dis-obeying non-Muslims". Pack your bags and go somewhere where they allow you to slaughter animals the way you want.
simple.
[/QUOTE]
land of dis obeying non muslims???
its allah's land and i will live any where i want to
and if i want to complain i will do it aswell. and no one can stop me. if people cant stand my complaining, too bad
land of dis obeying non muslims???
its allah's land and i will live any where i want to
and if i want to complain i will do it aswell. and no one can stop me. if people cant stand my complaining, too bad
[/QUOTE]
I agree. By the way US citizens/Soldiers are also based in many Arab Muslim countries from last many many years, sucking Oil and Controlling strategic areas from there. They also hate Muslims i would give same sugguestion to them. Pack up your bags and go back to your country.
As far as Muslims living in US are concerned. I believe its a free country and everybody has right to express his opinion. I am benefiting from their economy and wealth but it does'nt mean that i should stop using my brain. As i mentioned above they are also sucking our wealth , still they have their own agenda and their own opinions about Islam.
I want the animal cut just as allah(swt) ordered it to be not electrocuted.
Secondly to the individual who said go back to your own country and kill animals how they like ironic his name is pakiabroad, why don’t you go back to pakistan then seems like you can’t get enough of pakistan that you name yourself like that don’t be a hypocrite
If pain is the factor, does not electric shock cause pain to animals? Lets not get into conditions cows are kept in slaughter farms, whether they be in America or Kuwait.
It is their right to complain, and my right to continue eating halal if I so wish. Thats the american way. smile
So Muslims should stop migrating to different lands until they practice Muslim laws? Or they should pack up and leave their livelihood because their laws are being criticised? Should they convert in order to live in foreign lands? Thank god we had no such narrow thinkers, otherwise Islam would have been confined to the Hijaz. Muslims are supposed to do as they damn well please and follow the rules and regulations of Islam. Muslims don't do "as the Romans do in Rome". That's what mod-Muslims do. Real Muslims, wherever they are they establish their faith while following the rules of the land.
This Judy lady should also be reminded that dipping bullets in depleted Uranium scars the land for thousands of years causing cancerous diseases in man and beast and restricts the growth of plantlife. She obviously has too much time on her hands and should probably be told to take up a crusade which really matters.
Yes I know I am slightly changing the topic but its to set things straight.
You manage to think that educated people leaving pakistan is a good thing? The biggest problem in pakistan is it's Brain Drain. And idiots like you consider it to be a good thing. Pal wait until pakistan consists of street people, and your water is nothing but sewage. Then you'll enjoy the favor.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hskhan: *
....
You manage to think that educated people leaving pakistan is a good thing? The biggest problem in pakistan is it's Brain Drain. And idiots like you consider it to be a good thing. Pal wait until pakistan consists of street people, and your water is nothing but sewage. Then you'll enjoy the favor.
[/QUOTE]
Pakistan's biggest problem is not Brain Drain, but letting it to work. The only brains that are allowed to work are conspiring, cunning, cheating, selfish brains.
basic question here: How exactly, in Islam, are animals supposed to be slaughtered? Is that spelled out in the Koran that the animal needs to be conscious?
Yes I know I am slightly changing the topic but its to set things straight.
You manage to think that educated people leaving pakistan is a good thing? The biggest problem in pakistan is it's Brain Drain. And idiots like you consider it to be a good thing. Pal wait until pakistan consists of street people, and your water is nothing but sewage. Then you'll enjoy the favor.
[/QUOTE]
Hskhan, you dippy idiot, does sarcasm ring a bell in your puny little mind?
