ok..so all my life iv always believed that chicken, beef, meat..wotever, is only halal if the place u get it from says it is..i cant word this any better as im tired so please bear with me..
ok..so eating a chicken burger in macdonalds is haram as the chicken is haram..and now people are telling me that its not haram..its makroo..
wft
i dnt get this, im not saying im going to change my eating habits, i always have and always will only eat meat or chicken if i know its halah (i know theres no real way of knowing this, but u have to trust as they get the gunah for lying to u!!-thats what me mum has told me anyway!)
I just want some clarification, as im really confused as to why people would eat non halal food when they can easily eat halal or vegetarian food?
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*Originally posted by Miss_Mohabbat: *
and now people are telling me that its not haram..its makroo..
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What you have always believed is the majority opinion... that non-zabeeha meat is not permissible. This opinion is formed by learned scholars and imams and is based on evidence from Quran and the conduct of the Prophet (Peace be upon him)
What some people are telling you, that it is just "makrooh" is a minority opinion in Islam. Again, this opinion is also formed by learned scholars and is also based on evidence from Quran and the conduct of the Prophet (Peace be upon him). Mostly you will notice that people from Arabic countries forward this opinion, because the fiqh they follow call it "makrooh" and not "haraam".
So you should continue to do whatever you have always believed in, and be careful. Alternatively you can expand your own knowledge on this topic by reading the evidences used for both opinions and drawing up your own conclusions.
That we receive their meat and we don’t know if it has been slaughtered properly or not. In this case the rule of thumb is that if we don’t know the way of slaughter, the default is that it is permitted if it has been slaughtered by Muslims or Ahl il-Kitaab (Fatawa Islamiyya, Sheikh Abdel-Aziz Bin Baz, 3/404), as per the generally encompassing ayah (interpretation of the meaning) “and the food of the people to whom have been revealed the Book is permitted for you.” (al-Maa’ida:5) If it becomes evident to us that they have not slaughtered it properly then it would not be permisible.
That we receive their meat and we don’t know what they have mentioned upon it, and in this case likewise the preferrable and recommended opinion is the permissibility of eating it, as per the hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari via Aa’isha (may Allah be pleased with her) that some people said to the Prophet (peace be upon him) that a people come to them with meat which they do not know whether they have mentioned the name of Allah upon it or not. The Prophet replied “Mention the name of Allah upon it and eat it.”
I already provided one answer, with reference. So give your opinion, if you have any? Or maybe you just like to follow around and nit pick all day long. Get a more productive hobby. :)
although i still dnt understand..on the whole, macdonalds and the majority of "english" food is going to be non halal..(the only example i can think of is madonalds..and by "english" food..u know wot i mean)knowing that this food is not halal..why do ppl eat it when there will almost always be a vegetarian option?..i really honestly can not understand this!...im usually .."each to their own" but for some reason..this really irritates me
Faisal... unlike you i don't pretend to be qualified to comment on the claim of its being makrooh, as per the original question, because i don't see where this arises from (and by the looks of it neither do you!). The answer you quoted doesn't mention it all despite you somehow thinking it does!
It is for those who made the claim of the food being makrooh to explain why they don't deem it perfectly halal or absolutely haram...
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*Originally posted by Miss_Mohabbat: *
Thanks Faisal
although i still dnt understand..on the whole, macdonalds and the majority of "english" food is going to be non halal..(the only example i can think of is madonalds..and by "english" food..u know wot i mean)knowing that this food is not halal..why do ppl eat it when there will almost always be a vegetarian option?..i really honestly can not understand this!...im usually .."each to their own" but for some reason..this really irritates me
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Based on my discussions with some of my Arabic friends, they make a distinction of calling that meat "non-zabeeha" instead of "haraam/halaal". Because if you call something "haraam" then you can't eat it, and even they don't consider that meat as totally "halaal" because Allah's name is not taken while slaughtering the animal. So they call it the middle ground "makrooh", which means (in their minds) that it is permitted to eat, but they are still encouraged to eat zabeeha meats as much as possible. So you will notice that a lot of them will only buy zabeeha meat from muslim slaughterhouses for their cooking at their homes, but will also indulge in McDonalds and Burger King every now and then, because in their mind it is not totally haraam, either.
^ Oh OK, it's all down to discussions with anonymous Arabic friends, not the answer from the scholar you quoted earlier which mentions nothing of what you are asserting... interesting methodology...
ok i understand the arabs doing this..dnt ask me why but iv observed that once they leave saudi they somewhat change dramatically
But why do Pakistanis do this?
cos to be honest with u..i had never even heard of the word makroo until someone mentioned it on here so i asked my dad, and he said it was nonsense and i shouldnt believe anything apart from what he says...
the people who mentioned the makroo thing are definatly not arabs
The fatwaas state that "if we dont know the way of slaughter", but we do, the poor cow gets a bullet in the head and we know for sure that they dont recite the name of Allah(swt) before they pop the bullet in the animals head.
Ahl-il Kitaab ? So if they say the name of Jesus before they slaughter the animal would any muslim consume that meet ? I dont think that would sit well with any muslim.
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*Originally posted by Miss_Mohabbat: *
cos to be honest with u..i had never even heard of the word makroo until someone mentioned it on here so i asked my dad, and he said it was nonsense and i shouldnt believe anything apart from what he says...
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As I said before, what you have always believed in is perhaps the majority opinion. Although, I will strongly suggest you to research the topic a little bit more, for your own sake, if you are interested.
zman, you said
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the poor cow gets a bullet in the head and we know for sure that they dont recite the name of Allah(swt) before they pop the bullet in the animals head.
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While I not an expert in the modern slaughtering methods used in UK/US, what I have heard is that they fire a stun gun at the animal, and then later kill them and drain the blood before cutting the pieces. Some animals do die just by the stun gun, but arguably their percentage is low. Therefore, no name is pronounced on the animal during slaughter, and that is addressed in that fatwa.
Faisal, you mentioned that the majority believe that non-zabeeha is considered non-permissible. What does the majority practice though?
Its strange, even fellow co-workers who I always thought were strict about halal meat (through discussions) would eat the non-zabeeha swiss chalet chicken or KFC when its ordered for company lunches. I think majority of muslims eat halal meat at home but majority don't care at certain (social) times. Very few I find are strict about it at all times.
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*Originally posted by STRONGMAN: *
Faisal, you mentioned that the majority believe that non-zabeeha is considered non-permissible. What does the majority practice though?
Its strange, even fellow co-workers who I always thought were strict about halal meat (through discussions) would eat the non-zabeeha swiss chalet chicken or KFC when its ordered for company lunches. I think majority of muslims eat halal meat at home but **majority don't care **at certain (social) times. Very few I find are strict about it at all times.
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I am not sure about 'majority'. Both you and I are just talking anecdotaly from our own circle of friends and acquintances... so its highly unscientific, but many muslims I know don't or try not to eat non-zabeeha meats e.g. McDonalds etc. However, the bulk of muslims live out side the western world, and for them it is very easy to definitely conclude that any meat not slaughtered by anyone else other than a muslim is not permitted.
Let me take this opportunity once again to ask about one incident reported in the traditions of the Holy Prophet (saw).
It is said that he was poisoned through meat given to him as a gift by a Jewish old woman. Allah swt told him in wahi and didn't swallowed the meat that he already had put in his mouth. Another Sahabi dining with him did and died. When the woman was apprehended she argued that she gave him the poisoned meat thinking that if AnHazoor (saw) was truly the messenger from Allah, he will be saved. She was pardoned by Hazoor.
The question is not the poison but the fact that AnHazoor (saw) took meat given as a gift from a non-Muslim & thus not zibah according to the prescribed Islamic way. What do the scholars say about such incidents?
[QUOTE] Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
The question is not the poison but the fact that AnHazoor (saw) took meat given as a gift from a non-Muslim & thus not *zibah according to the prescribed Islamic way. What do the scholars say about such incidents?
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The common argument I have heard is that jews do take the name of God while slaughtering. They took it back then and they take it now, so according to Quranic instructions, their meat is permitted. Christians are different. Present day christians do not take any name while slaughtering the meat. One argument is that back in the early days of Islam, they did and hence their meat was permitted too; but not anymore. Not sure how authentic that argument is.
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
The common argument I have heard is that jews do take the name of God while slaughtering. They took it back then and they take it now, so according to Quranic instructions, their meat is permitted. Christians are different. Present day christians do not take any name while slaughtering the meat. One argument is that back in the early days of Islam, they did and hence their meat was permitted too; but not anymore. Not sure how authentic that argument is.
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I think, this should resolve this haram / halal debate.
Bukhari:
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 273:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Some people said, "O Allah's Apostle! Meat is brought to us by some people and we are not sure whether the name of Allah has been mentioned on it or not (at the time of slaughtering the animals)." Allah's Apostle said (to them), "Mention the name of Allah and eat it."