Halal and haram in the US

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

As a medical student, I have to spend some time in the clinic. I often visit people who are admitted in the hospital. Recently, I came across this Pakistani man living in the US, who was visiting some friends in holland and who was admitted because of liver problems.
I started to talk with him and I found out that his illness was caused because he had eaten to many hamburgers (in a Dutch restaurant). I was surpised when I heard that, and I asked him whether he knew that the beef used in hamburgers is haram. “well,” he repied “why r u asking, nowadays nobody in the US cares whether something Halal or haram, they just eat it.”
I was shocked when I heard that. But since I haven’t been to the US, I couldn’t jugde the truthfulness of his remark.
therefor I am asking you guys: was he telling the truth that nowadays nobody cares whether something is halal or haram. or was he telling lies in order to find an excuse for himself???

“everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die”

2

Nescio, very good topic you brought up here. When I went to US last summer, I was very shocked to see, that even my own relatives there didn't seem to care about halal or haram food.

But I still think most of the Muslims in US do care.

Umer, the Pakistani Brain of Austria

3

I think it depends on the person whether they are in US, UK or Pakistan.

You can understand it as in a gathering one person came and said all the people here are bad and sat down. Then another person came and he said there are few good people and few bad people and sat down. Then third person came and said that all the people are good here. I think (I am not sure) this story happened when Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was there and he said the person who said there are only bad people is not good himself. The person who said that there are few good and few bad people is a good and bad person and the third one is the best person as he doesn’t see bad things.

I would be happy if someone can correct me on this story.

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I have learnt silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.

Khalil Gibran

4

It depends on what one considers as Halal or Haram. Pork is considered Haram by all muslim. If you are talking about beef in hamburger , it is not considered Haram by most muslims. majority of Muslims in USA are from Arab countries and they consider it as acceptable. Some people call it Makrooh but acceptable. Only muslims from IndoPak are too strict and only some of them call it haram. Anyway beef of AhleKitab is considered acceptable by most religious authorities. Some consider it haram because it was not slaughtered in Allah's name.

So, you can not call something Haram just because you or some people consider it as haram.

Belief is not what mind possesses, it is what possesses the mind!

5

I think this post will deserve the right audience if posted in Religion section!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Would love to hear what people have to say before I put forward my thoughts!!

6

suna hamesha yahi ke DHOONDNAY say khuda bhee mil jaatay hay .. halaal food (if u really ARE serious about it like in my case i AM, will be available too) .. aur rahi baat ghar say bahar khaanay ki to yaaro, do teen ghantay ki dair honay say banda koee marnay nahin lagta hay .. magar wohee na ke samnay macdonalds dikhay ga aur chalay jayengay, kfc ya burger king nazar aaya aur chalay gaye ke pork nahin hoga baqi sab ki khair hay .. yaar come on

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

, vegetarian meals bhee khaa kar kaam chala saktay hain.. khair, depends on banda’s own values.. here in toronto canada, many of my muslim friends eat in fastfood restaurants by saying bissmillah parh ke kha lo, jhatkay ka hi hay na, pork to nahin hay na. … shrugs.. sath denay ki waja say sirf itna karta hoon ke vegie ki koee cheez (without cheese waghaira) kha leta hoon aur jald az jald utha jaata hoon . . . and thats more like it cuz beef, chicken waghaira, jab takk halaal na ho, apna to dil nahin manta..

WARNA RONAQAIN IDHAR BHEE BUHAT HAIN

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

ahmedjee, good thought, this dhaga should be placed in religious forum..

Never frown, even when your are sad,because you never know who is falling in love with your smile.

7

" Apna To Dil Nahin Manta"

It is all in your heart and what you believe. There are many more muslims in USA and europe who eat Jhatka than those who do not.
If you start to have your heart believe in that "Its OK", you won't feel a bit.

Sab Dil Ka Kasoor Hai.

8

I agree with confused...
There is no excuse for any Muslim to eat
Haraam food.. It is something Allah dislike
so much. If you can't find Halal meat, there
are good vegitables (though, I am sure that
most muslims are living in big cities like
NYC, LA or Houston.. and there are tons
of Halal Meat shops there). So Bismillah
parh kar khana will not make food halal
(we are suppose to say Bismilla before we
start ANYthing and not just to MAKE food
halal). Before you put something haraam
in your stomach, just think about the day-
after..What would you say when you will be
asked question about how you spent your
life..
Allah say daro aur haraam say toba karo

May Allah guide all muslims to the right path. (ameem)

9

thanks pureland ..

mausoof analyze_it, dill ka qusoor nahin hay ..

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

, jo baat DEAD SURITY ke sath quran, allah aur nabi ke through ghalat keh di gayee hay, uss main phir koee exception nahin hay.. rahi baat iski ke kafi muslims aisa kartay hain to dukh ke sath ye kehna parta hay ke meray kuch dost khud bhee aisee cheezon main shamil hain. . . reason poocho to kehtay hain ke oh ho yar, khanay do, ab halal kon talash karta phiray (in college, at work, yahan takk to samajh main aa jaati hay) par doosray alternatives bhee to hain .. ke ghar say food lay kar niklain, ya agar bahar khana HI HAY, to phir veg ya aisa khayen ke jiss say asar na paray .. but nooooooooooooooooooo, WOHEE murghay ki ek tang

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

, ke nahin ji, ab kon tehqeeq karta phiray .

phir ek baat aur bhee hay, modernatization.. (what a mouthful), ke oh ji hamm to itni care nahin kartay .. cake aur icecream dekhi, kha li, (baghair jaanay ke 99.99% times ye cheezain to nahin, per inkay ingredients ka ORIGIN haram/makrooh hota hay)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

…

yaani sabb aapkay eemaan ki mazbooti aur iraadon par depend karta hay yaaron.. btw, sab ko KHUD apna hisab dena hay .. so flaming on this thread won’t make sense to me

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Never frown, even when your are sad,because you never know who is falling in love with your smile.

10

The issue of whether muslims should eat meat slaughtered by non-muslims, especially ahle-kitaab (people of the book i.e. christians & jews) is a hotly debated issue.

A minority opinion (mostly Shafai’i) allows for such meat based on another ayat which allows meat from Ahle-Kitaab.

The majority opinion tends to prohibit it based on the Quranic ayat which states that Allah’s name must be pronounced at the time of slaughter. They say that the meat from Ahle-Kitaab is only permissible if God’s name is taken at the time of slaughter.

Anyway, to cut a long story short… there is a genuine difference of opinion on this matter. Sufficient enough that although one may not eat jhatka meat oneself, still it is advisable not to pass judgements on those who do.

This topic has been discussed several times before here. For more information, please click on the following:

is jhatka meat halal…
zabeeha vs non zabeeha- pain for animal?
Is Kosher Really Halal?

11

This is the verse which is taken as a proof for permissibility of meat slaughtered by christians/jews:

5:5. Made lawful to you this day are At­Tayyibât [all kinds of Halâl (lawful) foods, which Allâh has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, etc., milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits, etc.). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals, etc.) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them.
[/ul]

And the following are the verses, which prohibit such meat:

***2:173. He has forbidden you only the Maytatah (dead animals), and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that which is slaughtered as a scrifice for others than Allâh (or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., on which Allâh’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But if one is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience nor transgressing due limits, then there is no sin on him. Truly, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

6:118. So eat of that (meat) on which Allâh’s Name has been pronounced (while slaughtering the animal), if you are believers in His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.).

6:119. And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allâh’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?

6:121. Eat not (O believers) of that (meat) on which Allâh’s Name has not been pronounced (at the time of the slaughtering of the animal), for sure it is Fisq (a sin and disobedience of Allâh). And certainly, the Shayâtin (devils) do inspire their friends (from mankind) to dispute with you, and if you obey them] [by making Al­Maytatah (a dead animal) legal by eating it], then you would indeed be Mushrikûn (polytheists) [because they (devils and their friends) made lawful to you to eat that which Allâh has made unlawful to eat and you obeyed them by considering it lawful to eat, and by doing so you worshipped them, and to worship others besides Allâh is polytheism].***

It is for this reason that for such issues muslims turn to scholars for the interpretation and then follow the ruling which has the best evidence, based on rules of sharia i.e. quran, sunnah of the Prophet (SAWW) and the sunnah of the companions of the Prophet (SAWW).

PS. The translations above are taken from a website. These translations are from Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali, Ph.D., and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan. If you are uncomfortable with the translation, better take these references and obtain the translation from a scholar of your choice.

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited February 14, 2001).]

12

Pristine Bhai, you stole my words!!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

Totally agree!!!
Couldn’t have said any better …

Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …

13

In the US, most of the butcheries have a conveyer belt system. I sincerely doubt if any one is thinking about God at the time. I have heard (I am not sure of this though) that some butchers use guns to kill animals.

In big cities, it is very easy to find halal meat. It is just a question of where you choose to eat, when eating outside.

In some Arab restaurants, they say this is halal but not zabiha.

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14

some butchers use guns to kill animals

Maybe you are talking about ‘stun guns’… if yes, then these are used to ‘stun’ the animals, and not to ‘kill’ them.

2%-18% of animals die by this ‘stunning’. That is another problem.

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15

No Pristine, real guns. I have heard stories about how people found bullets in their meat. (All this is hearsay.)

16

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by confused:
, dill ka qusoor nahin hay .. .............

** Dear confused, You are just confusing everybody. First you said, " Apna to dil nahin manta".
Then you said," Dill ka qusoor nahin hay".
First decide which one is correct.

Ok coming back to the topic, Pristine has elaborated very well with references.
What you are calling Haram may not be considered Haram by other muslims so as Pristine put it beautifully into words that one should not judge others by what his beliefs are.
There are renowned Ulemas and Fatwas sharing both point of views. you can follow you want to be correct but dont pass judgement.

For Pristine: I think all arabs are followers are Imam Shafi and to my knowledge they all consider Beef by Christian and Jews to be Halal. Arabs are in majority in USA as compared to Pakistani who are mostly followers of Imam Hanifa. Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.**

Belief is not what mind possesses, it is what possesses the mind!

17

I have read your replies and I have the feeling that this topic is very much lively among the Pakistani people living abroad. I have often talked about it with other people and they give the same replys as you guys. I personally agree with confused, analyze_it ,and pure_land that these people tend to justify their deeds by saying that "everybody does it , so why don't we", or "we live in a foreign country, so we have no alternative". But eating Haram is prohibited now matter in what situation you are. and especially in these western countries like the US or holland for that matter, there are so many islamic butheries and restaurants, in which you can get halal food, that there cannot be any excuse to eat haram.

"everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die"

18

Nescio,

I dont think this only happens in the USA, in England I have known people who have gone and bought beef burgers from McDonalds and ate them as if there was nowt wrong with them.

One Uncle of mine once said I`ll eat anything as long it aint pork. (I am not condoning eating non-halal meat).
But he had sort of drifted away from some concepts of Sunni Islam, and wasnt sure what he believed in.

So, it is prevalent everywhere, and if there are various rulings on this topic, then it will probably be difficult to say whether are wrong or right.

The well bred contradict other people, the wise contradict themselves.

19

..

[This message has been edited by Admin (edited February 15, 2001).]

20

But eating Haram is prohibited now matter in what situation you are

Thats true... but before this you need to determine what is halal and what is haraam. I agree that a dominant opinion of muslim scholars agrees that eating meat by christians is not permissible - the same opinion which you follow, still there is a valid difference of opinion on this topic, as explained above.

Plus, our conduct is governed by Islamic rulings. For differences in opinion, we follow, or should follow, the ruling which has the strongest evidence. And not the ruling which suits us.

So for those who justify that they eat meats by christians becasue they live in foreign lands or everyone is doing it... thats unacceptable in this time or age.

Haraam is only allowed when it is the only way for you to live - like a traveller in a desert or lost in a jungle. It is not allowed where you can easily have alternatives. If you can't get halal beef/chicken, why don't you just eat vegetables or fish? So its not a matter of life and death.

However, if someone justifies this conduct based on islamic evidence as presented above, I can argue with him based on his and my evidence, but I'd rather not judge that person. At the end of the day, each of us is responsible for our own deeds.