Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
read the hadith in my signature....
u have a certain thing, and u r not sure about it....
if it is haram, and u induldged in it, u made a mistake....
if it is halal, and u doubted it and stayed away from it, atleast u did not commit a sin....
and whats the purpose of this life anyway????
to enjoy gelatin or to live a life that Allah wud be pleased with????
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Personally I suppose it’s best to stay clear of gelatin of animals that are not permissible for consumption.
Here’s what I came across:
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
PCG, you cannot bring about evidence from some so called scholar and say here it's halal.
We're not even talkinga bout medicine here. Where does the "gelatin pill" come from?
Is it just mr or are you posting just for sake of argument?
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
so what are people's view on items made from pigskin or hair (e.g. a boar bristle brush) :) is that haram..
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Anything from pig is najis. Shariah does not permit it. Therefore haram.
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
cricketplaya: Don't jump too quick with ignorance. This thread was revived by some guppies because we were discussing whether it would be halaal to take a medicine that is encased in gelatin if it were perscribed by a doctor for an illness. Hence the comment about the gelatin pill.
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Sadiyah, you can take that same argument and further extrapolate it to silly things like "Can you put soil in your yard that came from a spot on a farm where a pig was buried, then grow veggies in that soil and then eat the veggies?".
There is a constant recycling of atoms and molecules in the universe, and if one was to go with the logic from the article you posted, your computer screen is probably haraam because some atom in it might have at one point belonged to a pig at some point.
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Very interesting post!
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
really? I dont recall reading anything that said that wering something mde of pigskin is haram.
Please share what is said about it and where. Much appreciated
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
u have a certain thing, and u r not sure about it....
if it is haram, and u induldged in it, u made a mistake.... if it is halal, and u doubted it and stayed away from it, atleast u did not commit a sin....
and whats the purpose of this life anyway???? to enjoy gelatin or to live a life that Allah wud be pleased with????
Well Mughal! Debate with you will go on and on and on. You will never answer the questions raised and keep on harping these statements, why are you questioning Allah, Prophet, Quran and lastly Bukharee?
I end all the arguments with you in a joke.
a business man was talking to a farmer and during discussion he asked the farmer, how many legs a cow has? Farmer replied three. Businessman was clearly astonished. He said no they are four but the debate went on and on and farmer was convinced they are three. Finally they had a bet and decided to count legs of a cow nearby. One the businessman saw the cow he said look, she has one, two, three & four legs. But the farmer said no they are one, two and three. The businessman said you have lost and they are four. The farmer said that they will be four once i will say they are four!!!
Your state is no different, you think it will be halaal (not talking about gelatin but in general) once you declare it to be halaal which is not the case. You people are not Islam's custodians. So relax and chill out.
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
^ very very far from what i posted....
i never said anything about gelatin being halal/haram in this thread....
merely stated a hadith which u can find in my signature, which very shortly means "better to stay away from things about which u r not sure"....
e.g. u find a substance and u r not sure whether its poisonous or not....
do u eat it if u have even a little doubt of it being poisonous????
no u dont, cuz it aint worth the risk....
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,
A pig is considered to be essentially filthy (najas al-ayn), hence the position of the Hanafi School and that of many other imams, is that the skin, hair, and all other components of the pig remains filthy even after the tanning process is carried out.
Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) explains:
“(al-Haskafi’s statement: “Pigskin cannot be purified”) this is due to the fact that a pig is considered essentially filthy (najas al-ayn), in that the essence of a pig with all its body-components is filthy, whether dead or alive. Hence, the filthiness is not because of the blood that is contained in its body like other non-pure animals. Therefore, it does not accept purification (by tanning or other such methods)….” (Radd al-Muhtar, 1/204)
Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states specifically with regards to pig-hair:
“The hair of a dead animal other than a pig…….is pure”
Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) explains:
“According to Imam Abu Yusuf, which is the Dhahir al-Riwaya (established narration) in the Hanafi School, the hair of a pig is considered filthy and impure. This is the position chosen by Imam al-Kasani in his al-Bada’i and Imam al-Mawsili in his al-Ikhtiyar. Thus, if one prayed with pig-hair more than the amount of a dirham, one’s prayer would not be valid…” (Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 1/206)
In light of the above, it will not be permitted to acquire and use a hair brush that is made of boar bristles. If one is relatively certain of the hair brush being predominantly made of pig-hair, then one must avoid using the brush. If one offers salat with pig-hair (or any other part of a pig’s body) attached to one’s self or clothing, then one would have to repeat one’s prayer.
However, using dry hair brushes would not make one’s hair filthy, for the coming into contact with dry pig-hair does not transfer the filth to one’s body. Thus, the prayers you performed after using a dry hair brush made of boar bristles would not have to be repeated. However, if one’s hair or body comes into contact with a wet boar bristles brush, then one should wash one’s hair and repeat the prayer. (See Fatawa Mahmudiyya, 17/393-3940)
And Allah knows best
Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari
Darul Iftaa, Leicester, UK
–
some other links..
Are you wearing pig skin?
Gelatine in medicine
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
I have read otherwise on the topic of pigskin..that after the tanning process it is okay to use.
so basically its views of some people to the best of their knowledge, liited by their knowledge and their own views.
right then..
http://www.fatwaislam.com/fis/index.cfm?scn=fd&ID=93
now if hadith says the following, I wonder why these chaps in UK are ging against it
((Once a skin has been tanned. It is pure.)) [Muslim no: 336 and Abu Dawud no: 4123]
((Tanning the skin of a dead animal purifies it.)) [Muslim no: 336 and Abu Dawud no: 4125]
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
..the point being that if there is a difference of opinion or lack of full clarity, it is proper to note that and not just make a yes or no statement. Our 'scholars' seem to make it a habit of only telling an incomplete story, which is their view without bothering to tell the person asking the question that there are other views so they can not say this is the right answer, but to be careful etc.
Only when you cross question would they admit that their answer was not complete.
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Here is something for our Guppy scholarsw to chew on also:
I have always stated that our ulema ignore, neglect or simply fail to accept ahadith, which render their stance meaningless or weak or even wrong. They base their fatwas on a select few ahadith, which reinforce their point of view. When ordinary people like us can see flaws through their fatwas, it speaks of their competance.
*Book 003, Number 0704: (Muslim) *
The freed slave-girl of Maimuna was given a goat in charity but it died. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) happened to pass by that (carcass). Upon this he said: Why did you not take off its skin? You could put it to use, after tanning it. They (the Companions) said: It was dead. Upon, this he (the Messenger of Allah) said: Only its eating is prohibited. Abu bakr and Ibn Umar in their narrations said: It is narrated from Maimuna (may Allah be pleased with her).
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Dead animal, is not the pig. The ahadiths don't mention the pig. They only mention dead animal. I would trust the scholars who have researched this and majority of the Alhe-Sunnah scholars say that pig skin is still filthy after tanning..
Btw, Fraudia, I do not go to fatwaislam.com because I do not trust those salafi scholars. As I am a Hanafi and majority of the Ummah follows a school of thought, I do not need to listen to the opinions of a shcolar who rejects the schools of thought if I have the answers from scholars of the 4 schools of thought.
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Btw, Fraudia, I do not go to fatwaislam.com because I do not trust those salafi scholars. As I am a Hanafi and majority of the Ummah follows a school of thought, I do not need to listen to the opinions of a shcolar who rejects the schools of thought if I have the answers from scholars of the 4 schools of thought.
Can you prove to me from the Quran or ahadith that the pig flesh is haram because it is filthy? And if you read the hadith a little more closely, it specifically mentioned eating is prohibited. Eating has nothing to do with something being Taahir or not. Taharat is not defined at molecular or chemical level but what can be visibly distinguished.
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Yes it is scientificially proven. We don't need science because Allah tells us.
Again, I know eating is prohibited but does it say 'PIG SKIN' it only says dead animal.
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Again, I know eating is prohibited but does it say 'PIG SKIN' it only says dead animal.
You sidestepped what I asked. The reason for it being haram is not given other than our obedience to Allah SWT command. All the other explanations are our own extrapolations to justify it to those who we try to satisfy with an answer. In every ayat of the Quran where it is prohibited it specifically says FLESH OF SWINE. In the ahadith you can find further restriction on the fat as well. Nothing to do with skin at all. Can you get the skin of an animal when it is alive?
Re: Halal and Haram - An alternative juridical view
Skin of an animal when it is alive? Won't that hurt the animal?
I am not aware of any Quranic verses saying anything other than that but in the Hanafi school we consider any part of the pig to be najis.