Hajj 244 Killed in Stampede [Merged]

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by khawateen: *
actualy after that great fire in 1994, i think they have stopped ppl from bringing in chulas into Mina... askin them to monitor an area where ppl are allowed to cook is askin for too much... its hajj.. authorities have much better things to care bout then to see over a coupla ppl cook... so the ban works out great..
[/QUOTE]

yes in 1994 a great fire happened but a similar incident happened in 1997 too when i was at hujj and a fire broke out from our camp. That i explained above. Ban is good enough but its nearly impossible to implement it unless ppl use thier wisdom to some extent.

22

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Furqan: *
**my mom is gone for hajj along with all her brother sisters.... i checked the victims list and called up their group leader and alhamdulillah everything is fine.*
[/QUOTE]

i am glad to hear that, Furqan.

Can you please give me the URL for the list. Two of my Phuppas and one Phuppi are there right now. Thank you in advance.

23

inshaAllah they will come out with a better system next year, who knows. Every year system gets better and better there.

24

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Furqan: *

i dont agree with you! how do u know?? ur not god and to judge if they will or not or how allah's system work! imagine getting your head smashed in with peoples feet, and getting squashed so your ribs break in pieces and u lie their paralized while ppl step all over you! I don't think that is a pleasant way of dieng.
[/QUOTE]

Umm the situation you described was melo dramatic but yes majority of muslims believe that if Death is bound to come, it should come when one is near the House of God.

25

** here is the list: **

Five Pakistanis injured have been admitted in the Mina General Hospital. The Pakistanis killed include eight women, according to Pakistan’s Haj Director General Shahid Khan.

Following is the provisional list of Pakistani pilgrims killed in the stampede:

Sardar Begum, 58, (Passport No. 562951), wife of Muhammad Yousuf, of Gujar Khan; Muhammad Naib, 44, (421640), son of Wazir Khan of North Waziristan Agency; Tahira Jabeen, 42, (159372), wife of Muhammad Ashraf of Lahore; Habib Ullah, 56, (310470), son of Quli Khan of Laki Marwat; Wali Khan, 64, (421282), son of Ismail Khan, of Orangi-Karachi; Hanifan Bibi, 57, (158719), wife of Muhammad Hussain of Lahore; Bilqees Begum, 56, (375079), wife of Muhammad Saeed of Gulshan-e-Iqbal, Karachi; Bibi Menhaj, 46, (324062), wife of Jaleel Ahmed of Kohat; Tasleem Akhtar, 49, (324065), wife of Muhammad Hussain of Kohat; Khursheed Begum, 60, (405333), wife of Ghulam Rasool of Gujrat; Sher Afzal Khan, 62, (421849), son of Mahtab Khan of Mengora, Sawat; Rashida Sultana, 49, (324053), wife of Ashraf Khan of Kohat; Rehmat Ali, 74, (514725), son of Mehar Lakha of Kasur; Jalil Ahmed, 81, (324063), son of Taj Khan of Kohat; Zer Dad Khan Khattak, 51, (426973), son of Fazal Mannan of Orangi-Karachi; Munir Ahmed Khan (59372) of UAE; Muhammad Younus (Iqama No. 2176086367), son of Lal Din of KSA; Malik Imtiaz Ahmed (2191682158) of KSA; Tariq Azam (2193259997), son of Khan Muhammad, of Jeddah; Khalid Ayub Ali of KSA, Haji Muhammad Saeed of KSA, Muhammad Rafique, son of Miran Dad, of KSA; Kadak Khan of KSA, Nazar Ahmad of KSA; Muhammad Bilal (219868911), son of Ghulam, of KSA; Riaz Ahmed (59716131), son of Abdul Aziz, of UAE; Muhammad Umar (Passport No. 619553), son of Karim Bakhsh, of KSA; Muhammad Mushtaq (Iqama No. 2169695091), son of Muhammad Ali, of KSA; Muhammad Rafique (2196111849), son of Taj Muhammad, of KSA; Muhammad Pervez, son of Muhammad Iqbal of KSA; Bakhat Zain Khan (2165972882) of KSA; Mumtaz Hussain Shah (2126580022), son of Saeed Muhammad, of KSA; Riaz Ahmed (Haj Tasreeh No. 625304), son of Abdul Aziz of UAE; Haleem Khan (2192942981), son of Sharif Khan, of KSA; Jan Anwar (2198772804), son of Gul Mian of Riyadh; and Muhammad Sabir (2125249686), son of Abdul Hameed of KSA.

The five injured Pakistanis admitted to Mina General Hospital are:

Bashiran Bibi, 54, wife of Mukhtar Ahmad, of Chishtian; Tasleem Akhtar, 50, wife of Ali Muhammad, of Karachi; Rehmat Ali, 65, son of Fazal Din, of Pasroor; Bakhti Jana, 69, wife of Wazir Khan, of North Waziristan Agency; Allah Rakhi, 53, wife of Manzoor Ahmed, of Nankana Sahib.

Haj Director General Shahid Khan said further information can be obtained on the following telephone numbers: Camp Office Mina 02-5523443, Emergency 02-5521849, Fax No. 02-5523805, Medical Mission: 02-5523811.

Three Indian pilgrims killed were Ghulam Mohammad Mir, 40, son of Mohammad Abdullah Mir, of Anantnag, Jammu & Kashmir; Muhammad Ali, 40. son of Ammad Kutty, of Kozhikode, Kerala; and Mohammed Mohiuddin, 56, son of Gambhir Mandal, of Village Goyeshbari, Sujapur, Malda, West Bengal.

26

we can avoid this sad loss of life by dropping such a dangerous practice altogether.. Allah doesn't require us to do it anyway..

27

thats the basic requirement and practice of hujj. Ulema can sit together and can do some collective Ijtehad though. But heck thats too much to expect.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
we can avoid this sad loss of life by dropping such a dangerous practice altogether.. Allah doesn't require us to do it anyway..
[/QUOTE]

i think there can be a better system to it.

29

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by saby: *
thats the basic requirement and practice of hujj. Ulema can sit together and can do some collective Ijtehad though. But heck thats too much to expect.
[/QUOTE]

it was a Pagan ritual.. we shouldn't be borrowing pagan practices and incorporating into our religion. Allah never asked us to 'throw pebbles' at a stone structure and call it 'hitting the devil'.. the devil isn't a stone structure.. and we don't 'get back' at him by throwing pebbles at him.. but rather 'purifying' ourselves.. (from within .. not taking a bath in Zam Zam if that was anyones next thought..)..

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Thanks Furqan, i really appreciate it. i sent you a message to thank you but your inbox is full :~o

Thank you :flower1:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

it was a Pagan ritual.. we shouldn't be borrowing pagan practices and incorporating into our religion. Allah never asked us to 'throw pebbles' at a stone structure and call it 'hitting the devil'.. the devil isn't a stone structure.. and we don't 'get back' at him by throwing pebbles at him.. but rather 'purifying' ourselves.. (from within .. not taking a bath in Zam Zam if that was anyones next thought..)..
[/QUOTE]

well said !! :)

who were/ what is pagan?

32

n/p
the funny thing is that my pm box is empty! oh well :smiley: ur welcome, hope u dont know anyone on that list and i hope no one else does either.

33

Aw crud.. I'm about to derail this... but yeah, I kinda agree with PA. Think about it this way, you're not supposed to worship idols, some say you shouldn't even have images of humans, etc.. so if you can't worship an idol, how can you punish one?

34

Inna-Lillah-e-Wainna-Ilaih-e-Rajioon…:flower1:

They died in a state of Ihraam folks after almost having completed their Hajj…May Allah :swt: accept their Hajj and grant them Shahadat…

What an enviable way to die and what a fantastic place to die in, :mash:…May Allah :swt: reward them…

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
we can avoid this sad loss of life by dropping such a dangerous practice altogether.. Allah doesn't require us to do it anyway..
[/QUOTE]

So stoning the devil is not part of Hajj?

Is lifting the index finger during Tashahud part of Salat or can we get rid of it?

Is Ihraam part of Hajj? What about Safa and Marwa? And how about circumambulating the Kaaba? Or how about going to Maidaan-e-Arafat? How many thing can we drop and keep and still keep Hajj?

Just curious. A detailed answer would be appreciated. Thanks...

36

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
So stoning the devil is not part of Hajj?
[/quote]

the devil?? it's a statue.. an idol.. can it really be a Muslim ritual??

[quote]
Is lifting the index finger during Tashahud part of Salat or can we get rid of it?
[/quote]

depnds on which sect you ask.. everyone has their own way of offering slaat.. i kinda lost track who does what..

[quote]
Is Ihraam part of Hajj.. What about Safa and Marwa? And how about circumambulating the Kaaba? Or how about going to Maidaan-e-Arafat? How many thing can we drop and keep and still keep Hajj?Just curious. A detailed answer would be appreciated. Thanks...
[/QUOTE]

you can check your local maulvi of your sect to find out what you need to do.. when you can convince me Allah asked us to stone a statue with pebbles as a part of Hajj.. i'd admit it's included in Hajj...

37

**

I can’t convince you of anything. But what I can tell you, is that the best way to go about everything in Islam is to follow the Quran and the Sunnah as closely and immaculately as possible, as those who do that have been promised by the Quran. (I hope you believe in that to be one no matter what sect.)

If there is something wrong with the Sunnah (as you claim), well, at least I have an excuse that I never left anything out as it was handed to me in the Quran and Sunnah…You on the other hand will have no direction of escaping of following the Sunnah of the Prophet :saw:…

It’s the Niyyat that counts…If I follow the Sunnah, it’s because the Quran commands me…If it’s flawed or may be flawed (as you claim), it’s not my problem…At least I am not taking anything away from Islam, which tantamounts to Bidaah too…

Allah :swt: knows best…