Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Rahim

Praise and thanks are due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. We ask
Allah to raise the rank of our master Muhammad and to protect his
nation from whatever he feared for it.

It is sahih that Jabir asked the Prophet “Mata kunta nabiyyan?” which
means “When were you a Prophet?” and the Prophet replied “Wa Adamu
bayna ruhi wa jasad,” which means “When the soul of Adam did not
enter his body yet.” This is narrated by Al-Bayhaqiyy and others. It
means that the Prophet was known among the angels to be the last of
the prophets even before the soul of Adam enters his body. This
meaning is clarified by other narrations of this same hadith.

There is a fabricated hadith which means “The first creation is your
Prophet, O Jabir. Allah created your Prophet from His Light before
creating the other things.” This is fabricated. Some people claim
that ^Abdur-Razzaq narrated this in his book Al-Musanna but this is
not true. More than one scholar of hadith said that this hadith is
not sahih. Among them is Al-Hafizh As-Suyutiyy and Al-Hafizh Al-
Ghummariyy.

All the souls were created before the bodies, and then later they
were put in the back of Nabiyy Adam. But this does not mean that the
soul of our Prophet is the first created soul. Also it does not mean
that the souls were the first creations. The Prophet told us that the
first creation is the water which is the origin of every other
creation. The soul of the Prophet is not the Prophet, because the
Prophet is a human, and a human is a combination of body and soul.

Allah ta^ala said in dispraising the blasphemers “Wa ja^alauw lahu
min ^ibadihi juz’a,” which means “They claim that one of the slaves
of Allah is a part of Allah.” This is of course an invalid belief.
The one who believes that Nabiyy Muhammad is a part of Muhammad is a
blasphemer.

This book is not authored by Ibnul Jawziyy, may Allah have mercy on
him. No one claimed that this book is authored by Ibnul-Jawziyy
except the orientalist Brockelmann.

Explanation: This book Mawlidul-^Arus is not authored by Ibnul-
Jawziyy. None of the reliable scholars said that this book was
authored by Ibnul-Jawziyy, neither among those who lived in his time
nor among those who came after him. Rather the first person to
attribute this book to Ibnul-Jawziyy is the orientalist Brockelmann.

Ibnul-Jawziyy was a great Hanbaliyy faqih. He would never say such a
statement. His books are filled with statements that contradict this
ugly claim contained in this book Mawlidul-^Arus. There is no proof
that Ibnul-Jawziyy said a such statement. Only this orientalist said
this and there is no weight for his claim.

“Wa lam yakun lahu kufuan ahad,” which means no one is similar to
Allah in any way.

Explanation: Allah ta^ala revealed in His Book this explicit (muhkam)
verse which clearly exalts Him from resembling the creation in any
way. This is an explicit verse which deny any resemblance between
Allah and the creation.

Allah knows best.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

The one who claims that Allah resembles the creation is not a Muslim
because he is belying this ayah. Any type of resemblance. If a person
believes that Allah is a light, he is likening Allah to this created
light. If he believes that Allah is a darkness, then he is likening
Alah to the created darkness. If he believes that Allah is a large
body or a small body, he is likening Allah to the other bodies. If he
believes that Allah is a soul, then he likening Allah to the other
souls. If he believes that Allah occupies a place in the skies, then
he likening Allah to the angels who are inhabiting the skies. If he
believes that Allah is spread in all places, then he is likening
Allah to the air which is spread here and there. If he believes that
Allah dwells inside the bodies, then he is likening Allah to the
souls which enters the bodies, and to the jinn which enters bodies
when they possess people. If he believes that Allah changes from one
state to another, then he is likening Allah to other creations which
changes from one state to another. If he believes that Allah sits,
then he is likening Allah to the people and the animals that sit. He
would be attributing to Allah an upper part and a lower part. By this
he is attributing to Allah a buttock with which to sit or to get in
contact with the seat. All of these are attributes of the creation.
The Creator does not resemble the creation.

Allah ta^ala said in Al-Qur'an "Laysa kamithlihi shay'," which
means "Nothing resembles Allah." Al-Imam Abu Hanifah said "Wa la
yusafu bi-sifatil-makhluqin," which means "It is not permissible to
attribute to Allah the attributes of the creation."

This is why the scholars of Islam said the Knowledge of Allah is not
like our knowledge. The Power of Allah is not like our power. The
Hayah of Allah is not like our life. Our life is by the combination
of body and soul, but Allah's Life is not a combination of body and
soul. It is an Attribute of Allah which does not resemble the
attributes of creation.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

They said the Sight of Allah is not like ours. We see with a pupil
and with light. Allah sees every seeable thing without pupil and
without light. His Attributes are not similar to ours.

The Kalam of Allah is not like our speech. Our speech is by language,
letters and sound. The Kalam of Allah is an eternal and everlasting
Attribute of Allah which is not language, letters and sound. It is
the Attribute which Nabiyy Musa heard and which Nabiyy Muhammad heard
on the night of Al-Mi^raj. I do not mean the expressions revealed to
Nabiyy Muhammad. I am talking about the attribute of Allah which is
not letters or sound.

The summary of all this is contained in the statement of Dhun-Nun Al-
Misriyy when he said "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilafi
dhalik," which means "Whatever you imagine in your mind, Allah is
different from that." Al-Imam Ahmad ibnu Hanbal said this same
statement with the same words. They both took this statement from the
ayah "Laysa kamithlihi shay'," which means "Nothing resembles Allah."

Alhamdulillahi rabbil ^alamin. Wa usalli wa usallimu ^alan-Nabiyyil-
amin, sayyidina wa habibina wa ^azhimina wa qurrati a^yunina
Muhammad, wa ^ala alihi wa ashabihit-tayyibinat-tahirin. ^Amma ba^du.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

So there is a hadith out there in the literature, and its false?

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

^ surprise surprise....
there r many such ahadith pcg....

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

OF course, there are many people that say things that they just read without authentication.

Authenticating what is being sais is quite important, specially on the net now a days.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

well yr one of them rnt u bro? u quoted a hadith abt "good bidah" without reading the FULL hadith.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

Who is "an-noor?"

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

Some people say "Prophet Muhammad is noor in the sense that he is not a human, he is physical light". They claim that the prophet said that.

I explained that that is not true, and Prophet Muhammad came with the light of Islam, and he is a human being, the best of Allah's creation.

Regarding Hadith that classified Bid^ah (innovation) into good bid^ah and bad bid^ah, the hadith is:

Imam Muslim related, through the route of Jarir Ibn ^Abdullah, the Prophet said:

«من سنَّ في الإسلام سنة حسنة فله أجرها وأجر من عمل بها إلى يوم القيامة، لا ينقص من أجورهم شىء ومن سنَّ فِى الإسلام سنة سيئة فعليه وزرها ووزر من عمل بها إلى يوم القيامة لا ينقص من أوزارهم شىء»

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This hadith of the Prophet means: <>

There are two types of innovations (Bid^a) mentioned in this hadith:

The innovations of guidance and

The innovations of misguidance.

What complies with the Qur'an, the Sunnah, the Ijma^ (scholarly consensus), and the sayings and practices of the Companions is an innovation of guidance, and what contradicts the Qur'an, the Sunnah, the Ijma^, and the sayings and actions of the Companions is an innovation of misguidance. This definition of the two types of innovations was given by many knowledgeable and trustworthy scholars of Islam; among them Imam ash-Shafi^iyy, Imam an-Nawawiyy, al-Bayhaqiyy, and the Hafidh, Ibn Hajar al-^Asqalaniyy.

It is apparent Muslims have not gone astray in celebrating the birth of the Prophet, based upon the aforementioned hadith, because the deeds practiced during this event are considered rewardable by the standards of the Religion, and in line with the definition of innovations of guidance. Unfortunately, there are some people who misinterpret a sahih hadith related by Abu Dawud: "كل بدعة ضلالة"

which means: <> Those who are misguided interpret the word (kul) as `every' and thus claim this hadith means: "Every innovation is an innovation of misguidance. Their claim is unfounded for two reasons. Linguistically, this hadith is similar to the hadith related by al-Bayhaqiyy: "كل عين زانية"

Which clearly does not mean: "Every eye gazes the look of the adulterer;" rather, "Most people are guilty of the forbidden look." The person blind since birth would surely not have the forbidden look, and it is known the Prophets would never commit such an abject sin. The word "كل" (kul) as used in both hadiths refers to `most,' although it can mean "every" it does not mean this in all cases.

As a matter of fact, in the explanation of Sahih Muslim, an-Nawawiyy said: "The saying of the Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, «كل بدعة ضلالة» is among the terms which are: "عام مخصوص" (^am makhsus) i.e., a general statement giving a specific meaning; which is a known field in Islam, and the meaning of the hadith is "most innovations are innovations of misguidance."

This field the"عام مخصوص" is seen in the Qur'an in Ayah 3 of Surat al-Ahqaf: تدمر كل شىء] which means the wind Allah sent as punishment to the people of ^Ad demolished most of the things.

To accept the meaning: "Every innovation is an innovation of misguidance," as the meaning of the sahih hadith related by Abu Dawud would negate the sahih hadith related by Imam Muslim which specifies two types of innovations: the innovations of guidance and the innovations of misguidance. In the rules of the Religion it is not permissible to interpret two sahih hadiths in contradiction to one another, therefore we know the true meaning.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

whoaa...wait a minute.

first tell me, how did you get to translate the word سنة to Innovation?

in that quoted hadith, there is no sign of the word "bidd'ah" which is arabic for "inovation", so how did you get to include the word innovation into your translation?

The word سنة which is pronounced SUNNAH is arabic for "way" or "custom" or "tradition". The meaning of sunnah is no where close to what innovation or Bidd'ah means.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

No that Imam Muslim Hadith does not imply that there are two types of innovations, that was just you being smart and playing your way through with the translation.

With your critical premise being proven wrong, your entire logical buildup to the implied conclusion has been destroyed.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

Brailvi cheeta...

You know what Mushriks before Islam used to say about Prophets?

Whenever some prophet use to come to them they would say, "you are a human but not a prophet" and today's mushriks are opposite, they say Mohammad is a prophet but not a human being but a "noor" or piece of noor of Allah. They deny basic tenets of Quran, Human being of Mohammad, his mother, his father, his WHOLE lineage going back to Ismael and Ibrahmin (phut).

There is no good innovation... such hadiths are weak or not true at all. If "good innovations" were needed why didn't the prophet do that stuff himself before telling us that you can have good innovation. Who decides what is a good innovation? Ahmed Raza? Brailvi fake peers? Brailvi public which goes around worshiping graves and dead saints? Aj ke jahiloon aur kal ke jahiloon main koe khass farak nahi hai.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

is this guy for real?

seriously Ahmad, r u for real??

u take hadiths out of context and u go on as if u know what ur talkin abt but u aint got a CLUE! we refuted the concept of good bidaah!

refer to this thread.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=196494

regarding the hadith abt Good innovation please refer to this which i copied from our previous convo…

Jareer ibn 'Abdullaah al-Bajali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever starts a good thing and is followed by others, will have his own reward and a reward equal to that of those who follow him, without it detracting from their reward in any way. Whoever starts a bad thing and is followed by others, will bear the burden of his own sin and a burden equal to that of those who follow him, without it detracting from their burden in any way.’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, no. 2675. He said, This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth)

There is a story behind this hadeeth, which will explain what “whoever starts a good thing” means. Imaam Muslim reported this story from Jareer ibn 'Abdullaah, who also narrated the hadeeth itself. He said: “Some people from the Bedouin came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), wearing woollen garments. He saw that they were in bad shape and in desperate need, so he urged the people to give them charity. They people were very slow to respond, and it could be seen in his face (that he was upset). Then a man of the Ansaar brought a package of silver, then another came, and another and another, and his face was filled with joy. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever starts a good thing in Islam, and others do likewise after him, there will be written for him a reward like that of those who followed him, without it detracting in the least from their reward. Whoever starts a bad thing in Islam, and others do likewise after him, there will be written for him a burden of sin like that of those who followed him, without it detracting in the least from their burden.’” (Reported by Muslim, no. 1017

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

Imam Shafi^iy said in explaing this hadith:
“Innovation (Bid^ah) is of 2 types: Bid^atu Huda (innovation of guidance), and bid^atu dalalah (innovation of misguidance)”

Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani also explained that this hadith means that innvoation is of different types, among them is the good bid^ah, bad bid^ah, makrooh bid^ah..

As for the hadith, when the Prophet said “Sanna sunnatan sayi’ah” it means he innovated a bad innovation, because he called it bad sunnah, which means bad innovation.

Look into the books of the linguists about this, you will find that: Sunnah hasanah means good innovation, sunnah sayi’ah means bad innovation.

Allah knows best.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

Exapmle of good innovation:

-The second Adhan on Friday - innovated by Imam Uthman, and muslims still do it till now a days. Even wahabies do it.

  • Salat on the prophet after Adhan - all Muslims do it, except wahabies.

-Miladun-Nabiy, celebrating the birth of the Prophet. Billion Muslims do it. Suyootiy and many many others confirmed it’s authenticity and that it’s a righteous act of obedience. Even Ibn Taymiah (the source for wahabi creed) he says it’s a good deed to do it, yet wahabies consider Miladun-Nabiy as an act of misguidance.

  • Putting dots on the Qur’an – was not even done by Sahabah! It was done by a Tabi^iy named Yahya bin Ya^mur..

If wahabies were true in claiming that EVERY SINGLE innovation is an innovation of misguidance, then let them remove the dots from the Qur’an and try to read it! I dare them to.

The hundreds of millions did not go astray in celebrating the Prophet’s brith. Wahabies are misguided to consider all muslims as misguided for doing such a good deed.

Allah knows best.

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Re: Hadith Jabir about an-Noor is weak

Ahmed G you left out some more that Brailvies do (and bad bad "wahabis" don't do):

Worshiping graves
Worshiping dead saints
Milaads
Urss Sharifs ? lol
Asking dead saints for help
Asking dead saints to ask Allah to help you
Peeri Fakeeri
Taveeez Ganda
KHatam SHarifs
Ghiyaarween Sharifs (honoring Hazrat Abdul Qadar Jilani... who was a Wahabi by definition as he didn't do most of the stuff that brailvies have invented under the label of "good" innovation.)
Saying that Prophet MOhammad was made out of NOOR (light) like Angels and was not human. (people of pre islamic era admited that the prophets that came to them were humans but said that they don't believe them to be prophets.... yet these fools believe that prophet mohammad was a prophet but he was not a human. Lol)
Superstitious Beliefs much like Hindus

Want more? Btw folks, anybody who DOESN'T do the stuff listed above is a "wahabi" according to these Brailvi bidaties.

Uthman and Umar were and still remain SAHABA of the prophet, they did not CHANGE the basic concept or meaning of the religious practices that we do, only made additions or improvements where they thought it was needed... WHO gave Raza Ahmed or Brailvies the right to create new ways of worship and new ways in Islam? ON WHOSE authority?

[quote]
- Salat on the prophet after Adhan - all Muslims do it, except wahabies.
[/quote]

Wrong, only BRAILVIES do it. Tell us if it was perscribed by the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), his sahaba, tabiyeeen or taba-tabiyeen? NO, it was not and this innovation of yours was created and invented by Raza Ahmed for only Brailvies.

[quote]
-Miladun-Nabiy, celebrating the birth of the Prophet. Billion Muslims do it. Suyootiy and many many others confirmed it’s authenticity and that it’s a righteous act of obedience. Even Ibn Taymiah (the source for wahabi creed) he says it’s a good deed to do it, yet wahabies consider Miladun-Nabiy as an act of misguidance.
[/quote]

Again, you speak without reference, without proper source and you attribute something to "wahabi" scholars just because... in which book did Ibn Tehmiya said that? Your source? Reference?
And,
Tell us if Milad was perscribed by the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), his sahaba, tabiyeeen or taba-tabiyeen? NO, it was not and this innovation of yours was created and invented by Raza Ahmed for only Brailvies.